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I think there's an enormous different between being ignorant about or apathetic towards older work- as I honestly am w/r/t classical music- and being actively dismissive of it. The one is unremarkable, while the other is seriously irritating, particularly when it comes not from a Nouvelle Vague sense of destroying the entrenched to make way for the new but seemingly from a total unwillingness to look outside one's own frame of reference.

Well, you said last page that she scoffed that anyone could take Bigger than Life seriously. I missed that part; all I saw was that she knew that other people liked it (including presumably her date) but she personally couldn't get into it at all and found Mason's acting style off-putting. But in order to say that she's actively dismissive of older films, I'd need to see more than just a few sentences about one film. I don't really know anything about her tastes in film beyond that. It could very well be the case that she hasn't reached outside her frame of reference, but so far there seems to be scant evidence of that. The Slate review of TF suggested that the fact that the main character, based on herself, says she doesn't like foreign films reinforces the notion that she hasn't looked far enough away from what's immediately at hand for inspiration. I don't see how that necessarily follows. Again, I took it to be an intentional way of showing the character as unworldly.

Hmm, I thought there was something where she had gone into it further, but I could be misremembering.

Gregory wrote:In other shocking and appalling news, most acclaimed young musicians don't have any real appreciation for Wagner or Beethoven, and they don't even know who Charles Ives is!

But probably very few worth listening to publicly mock/express confusion of said musicians' worth? I think a filmmaker who expresses contempt for the traditional Hollywood model of cinema out of supposed superiority had better at the very least deliver something successful enough as a competing work of filmic art to overshadow her ignorance. I know you're trying to provide a more evenhanded counter-agent to some of the more outrageous negative rhetoric here, but how is aggressively playing devil's advocate any more valid than aggressively playing the devil?

The public nature of her unpopular opinion is something I covered in earlier comments about her being unusually candid about such things for a filmmaker, at least in that instance. And please feel free to show me where she expressed contempt for the entire "traditional" Hollywood model of cinema, out of supposed superiority. That seems like quite the spin or extrapolation. Again, there's very little to discuss here: a few sentences she said about a film that I and others love, and one line in the film that some are taking to be plain truth from the horse's mouth -- the smoking gun of her philistinism.

I'm not playing the devil's advocate, but I realize it might appear that way as I seem to be alone in answering a lot of these criticisms. I don't have any particular stake in trying to hold that ground, so I'll just take my leave of this thread, at least for now. For all those (I'm speaking from a general impression, not thinking of anyone in particular) who want a replacement for the Kevin Smith and Michael Bay of over a decade ago, have at it.

I couldn't even watch the first 15 minutes of this. But then again I had just finished watching How to Die in Oregon so that might've had something to do with it.

Interview with Dunham where she clarifies the whole Criterion thing.

I think they also did Armageddon, which is an awesome movie

Right, now that we've got that sorted, I think we can move on.

This interview goes into a lot more detail, including the kerfuffle with ardent Nicholas Ray fan domino harvey.

I wish successful artists would just shut the fuck up, forever. Dunham, Chris Ware, whoever -- I tire of the faux-woe-is-me, faux-self-deprecation, faux-defensiveness, etc. They're making a goddamned living as an artist, in some case through enormous talent (Ware) in other cases the sickness of cultural zeitgeist and family connections (Dunham) -- if it's really all that bad, perhaps they'd like to clean toilets or empty food trays for 20 years and see how much work they can get done then, and how it really feels to go unrecognized. Just shut the fuck up, assholes.

Since The Rock is mentioned in both of those articles in a kind of "well, they released The Rock so Tiny Furniture definitely belongs" kinda way I'll just say:

The Rock > Tiny Furniture by a long shot.

I wasn't surprised to see the film wasn't as bad as some seemed to suggest but again, after getting through it, it is very bland and that's about all I can muster about it. Though visually it wasn't original I liked how it looked, and I found a few laughs, but very few. Sadly I think the biggest laugh I had was one of the YouTube comments posted against her video.

But I really just didn't care about anything else going on in the film. I'm one of those people that always complains when someone tells me they didn't like a film because the characters were unlikeable. I don't need to like characters to enjoy a film. And yes I didn't find any of these characters remotely likeable (though her one friend added a much needed breath of fresh air whenever she showed up) but also didn't find them at all interesting. I felt so detached from them and couldn't even bring myself to remotely care.

There was one scene, where she gets into a fight with her mother and sister, where the film actually seems to come to life, but then after the scene is over the film goes back to the same bland routine it's been doing all throughout. There were some other little moments I liked here and there, but none of it redeemed the film ultimately. I also thought Dunham was pretty good in it, but then again it could be because she's ultimately playing herself. But from all of that I feel Dunham has potential, but I think she'd have to step away from using herself as inspiration for her stories because I apparently don't find her very interesting.

swo17 wrote:This interview goes into a lot more detail, including the kerfuffle with ardent Nicholas Ray fan domino harvey.

I love the idea that there are people out there thinking 'do NOT fuck with Nicholas Ray fans'

matrixschmatrix wrote:

swo17 wrote:This interview goes into a lot more detail, including the kerfuffle with ardent Nicholas Ray fan domino harvey.

I love the idea that there are people out there thinking 'do NOT fuck with Nicholas Ray fans'

Well, keep in mind that you may also know "Nicolas Ray Fans" by their other name, "Lovers of Cinema"

domino harvey wrote:Well, keep in mind that you may also know "Nicolas Ray Fans" by their other name, "Lovers of Cinema

Godard's quote was simply, "The cinema is Nicholas Ray."

No one's quote was "The cinema is Lena Dunham"

If you want a picture of cinema of the future, imagine an enormous, pixelated close up of Lena Dunhan's face- forever.

mfunk9786 wrote:No one's quote was "The cinema is Lena Dunham"

"The cinema isn't Lena Dunham"

MyNameCriterionForum wrote:They're making a goddamned living as an artist, in some case through enormous talent (Ware) in other cases the sickness of cultural zeitgeist and family connections (Dunham) [...]

I'm certainly not among TF's fans, but from the interview, it seems like Criterion's interest had much more to do with a desire to tap into the mumblecore market (which I think you were alluding to with your 'cultural zeitgeist' comment) than anything to do with her family connections. And however high their cinema IQ, Criterion is of course a business. Sales of TF might be low, but I'm sure it's not the first time Criterion has misjudged a film's earning potential.

Ultimately, I just don't get all the fuss. It helps CC fill a niche they wanted to fill (and to which they had access thanks to their IFC deal). Like cdnchris, I just couldn't manage to care that much about it, which was actually a disappointment after all the invective this release provoked. But I also agree w/chris that it wouldn't be at all shocking if Dunham makes very good films once she expands her frame of reference.

knives wrote:Interview with Dunham where she clarifies the whole Criterion thing.

After reading the interview, I'm curious about Tiny Furniture. After reading this thread, I simply had a very different image of her...she comes off hardly as self-absorbed and snooty as I expected her to be.

In the interviews on the disc she doesn't come off self-absorbed and in all honesty I actually liked her. You'd think with how people were reacting on here she was out to rape cinema and flip the bird to everyone film lover out there, but that's far from the case. She has her own tastes and influences, primarily Woody Allen, and what pushed her to finally make a film was mumblecore because it could be so sparse and aimless and was something she felt she could try.

Still don't care for the film, though, or the other one on this disc (Creative Nonfiction.) If she makes another film I'll watch it and give it a chance, but if it's not a big improvement over Tiny Furniture I'll just give up on her there.

Among the titles on backorder after the sale... Tiny Furniture BD. (Granted, there are quite a few titles with this status by now.) Perhaps not such a bad investment, after all, in spite of our aesthetic misgivings?

This seems obvious, and perhaps someone has already considered this, but Criterion probably knew she had the show in the works with HBO before they decided to add TF to the collection, right? And no doubt that connection will lead to considerable sales. So it just isn't any ol' mumblecore movie, however one defines that; in terms of her comic persona, it's a de-facto-pilot to a cable show that may become hugely popular with Judd Apatow's imprimatur.

I'm sorry but she is just getting wayyy too much attention, or should i say there's much ado about nothing? But thats just the way these entertainment establishments operate: pick someone out of obscurity and turn them into the next "hot" thing and then realize in retrospect that they ain't shit and disavow them forever. When it happens in the world of cinema I like to term it The Eric Schaeffer Effect.

I'm sure you all appreciate the irony of people continuing to complain in this thread, page after page, about how much attention Lena Dunham is getting.

Matt wrote:I'm sure you all appreciate the irony of people continuing to complain in this thread, page after page, about how much attention Lena Dunham is getting.

It will be given due consideration when the time to pick a new Richard Cranium rolls around.