criterionforum.org

And since the Dolby Vision layers are FEL, the encoding may very well be improved a fair bit in DV than the caps show (they still won't be as good as the Coda cut but may be closer to imperceptible).

I noticed that The Lord of The Rings (WB) is placed in "Disappointing" section. I presume this is based on theatrical versions? I have not watched those, so I cannot comment. However the extended edition UHDs are absolutely stellar. The fine grain is beautifully resolved, it looks very filmic. Just re-watched The Two Towers again the other night, and could not detect any DNR. These are truly reference quality.

Finch wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 1:03 pm Adding a caveat for The Godfather set due to Part III's cuts being less well-encoded than Pt 1+2 and CODA but I don't think this warrants the entire set to be downgraded. We've made allowances for A Clockwork Orange (bad 5.1 track) and others to stay up and the rest of the set is so strong that I'm leaving it where it is.

Plus, is anyone going to buy the set for III, or at least not prioritize the Coda cut first? (And I say that as someone who actually likes Part III!)

Finch, I really appreciate your work keeping up the master list and giving regular and transparent updates on your decision-making process for including/excluding discs for reference/tiers, which humbly invites other opinions and makes it a conversation- something I can't contribute to personally but also something so important right now as many of us are still "figuring out" this format. Adding the red notes is very helpful too, for in the event that I was a silly man buying the Godfather set only for Part III, I could follow up with my own research/questions here, which again, is a very inviting space thanks in part to the culture you and others have set in the thread.

The EE UHDs are visibly degrained and also slightly EEd. From what I've seen so far, PQ are pretty much equivalent on both cuts, so there's no reason to handle one differently than the other.

therewillbeblus wrote: Plus, is anyone going to buy the set for III, or at least not prioritize the Coda cut first? (And I say that as someone who actually likes Part III!).

I'd go straight to the theatrical and might possibly skip Coda all together, but maybe that's just me

Yakushima wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 2:55 pm I noticed that The Lord of The Rings (WB) is placed in "Disappointing" section. I presume this is based on theatrical versions? I have not watched those, so I cannot comment. However the extended edition UHDs are absolutely stellar. The fine grain is beautifully resolved, it looks very filmic. Just re-watched The Two Towers again the other night, and could not detect any DNR. These are truly reference quality.

There's definitely some very heavy DNR on these UHDs, but it is only applied across a few select moments and scenes, not the whole runtime. In fact, DNR and sharpening was applied at many of these same moments during the original post-production, meaning it is baked in and original to the theatrical presentations. They just added more on the UHDs to essentially try and hide how crappy those moments always looked (sound logic there!).

Other than this, the films look fantastic on UHD and vastly outpace the creaky old Blu-rays, and I would agree they should not really be in the Disappointing section.

And yes tenia is correct, there's no difference between the TC and EE cuts on UHD, visually speaking.

tenia wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 3:07 pm

therewillbeblus wrote: Plus, is anyone going to buy the set for III, or at least not prioritize the Coda cut first? (And I say that as someone who actually likes Part III!).

I'd go straight to the theatrical and might possibly skip Coda all together, but maybe that's just me

I'm moreso curious about Coppola's changes to a much(unfairly)-maligned film than blindly believing the new cut is superior

Oh I certainly would understand that, but since the theatrical cut has been unavailable for so long, that's what I'd be eager to see first (and likely to only see as I might then move on to something else).

tenia wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 3:07 pm The EE UHDs are visibly degrained and also slightly EEd.

Sorry, are you talking about LOTR or Godfather 3, and what do each of these EEs stand for?

swo17 wrote:

tenia wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 3:07 pm The EE UHDs are visibly degrained and also slightly EEd.

Sorry, are you talking about LOTR or Godfather 3, and what do each of these EEs stand for?

I'm assuming: "The [Extended Edition] UHDs [for Lord of the Rings] are visibly degrained also slightly [edge-enhance]d."

Hm, I read several Rings fans were quite disappointed with the UHDs. I'm happy, however, to move them to the Solid section and add a caveat that your enjoyment of the discs will depend on your sensitivity to DNR. Does that seem fair (I did not know they had already applied DNR in post before each film opened theatrically)?

TWBB, I definitely did not want to be the sole arbiter of what goes into which column, and I'm glad people are finding this thread useful.

EDIT: OP amended to move Rings in the Solid/Appreciable upgrade section with notes about DNR added, thanks Eddie!

Two more catalogue titles added to OP for the Solid tier:

The Hunt for Red October
The Shawshank Redemption

Finch wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:21 pm Hm, I read several Rings fans were quite disappointed with the UHDs. I'm happy, however, to move them to the Solid section and add a caveat that your enjoyment of the discs will depend on your sensitivity to DNR. Does that seem fair (I did not know they had already applied DNR in post before each film opened theatrically)?

Yes, there are articles from the time of release about the productions and they mention the use of sharpening and DNR tools during post. This is probably a far more common thing than realised when it comes to digitally finished movies, especially the early ones that were still being shot on film, like LOTR.

The UHDs feature moments of very heavy DNR but chances are if you check the same moment on the Blu-ray, they will be a wax fest too. That doesn't mean one can't be disappointed with the UHDs, but if the purpose of the thread is whether a title is worth the upgrade, then it would be ridiculous to shame the UHDs whilst cuddling the Blu-rays to one's chest, when they feature many of the same problems. But only the UHDs feature a vastly superior visual grading, both in dynamic range and colour.

I appreciate everyone's input about The Lord of the Rings UHD! I am usually very sensitive to DNR effect, but for the life of me I cannot see any heavy DNR here. The moments of extreme softness in the image seem to be inherent in the film itself. There are several scenes with very soft focus (more of them in the extended versions), which may be perceived as waxy, but on a close inspection there is still fine grain in the image. This UHD version is by far the best these films looked on video, which I think is a strong argument for at least moving them to "strong update", if not "reference" section.
I am happy I have bought this set before the list was created, since it would likely have adversely affected my decision about buying it, and I would miss countless hours of enjoyment

One shot comparison Kino 4k vs Arrow BD of The Apartment

Pity they decided not to do an HDR pass on it because this could have looked even better still. I'm surprised that the framing has shifted quite a bit to the right on the Kino 4k.

Anyhow, as expected, a solid upgrade but it doesn't replace the comprehensive package Arrow put together.

Since there seems to be at least some interest in non-English friendly discs, The Great Silence was recently released by Studio Canal in France. McCrutchy saysthe release overall is a bit of a mess and the film's last seven minutes are de-grained.

Finch wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 12:41 pm I thought about adding them but then figured the lack of English subs makes those particular releases only viable to a very small minority on here, and it's my understanding that they are poorly encoded. If more people would like me to add a column for non-English friendly UHDs, I'm happy to add one. For now, I'll stick a note at the bottom of the original post for those titles you brought up. Thanks!

I just thought I'd point out, fwiw, that The Three Colors Trilogy and The Double Life of Veronique are available to stream in 4K on the French Mubi site for anyone in France or with a VPN.

cdnchris wrote:

swo17 wrote:

tenia wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 3:07 pm The EE UHDs are visibly degrained and also slightly EEd.

Sorry, are you talking about LOTR or Godfather 3, and what do each of these EEs stand for?

I'm assuming: "The [Extended Edition] UHDs [for Lord of the Rings] are visibly degrained also slightly [edge-enhance]d."

My god yes, that's what I meant, abbreviations are nightmarish and I should have known better !

Finch wrote:Since there seems to be at least some interest in non-English friendly discs, The Great Silence was recently released by Studio Canal in France. McCrutchy saysthe release overall is a bit of a mess and the film's last seven minutes are de-grained.

I'm the person he's quoting. I can't say for the UHD directly as I'm not equipped myelf, but based this feedback on the BD. I got the confirmation from VDM they indeed only worked on these last minutes, scanned in 4k from an exploitation print (and then clearly vastly DNRed, the screenshotcomparison is also mine). It's otherwise based on the Film Movement source, but with a gamma correction. Since the UHD is SDR and the Film Movement claimed to be sourced from a 2k restoration (it looks like it anyway), this makes for a strange choice for a UHD release.

Following more reviews and feedback, I've made American Werewolf in London a reference title even for those who already have/had the Arrow BD.

Quick heads-up: the Blu-Ray included with the Apartment UHD is not from the same source; they just used MGM's old disc. Makes you wonder why they even bothered with it.

Finch wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 3:15 pm Quick heads-up: the Blu-Ray included with the Apartment UHD is not from the same source; they just used MGM's old disc. Makes you wonder why they even bothered with it.

They did basically the same thing with Mad Mad, only in that case they announced the Blu-ray was going to be from the 4K master and instead of re-authoring the Blu-ray when it turned out they used the old master they simply deleted all references to the Blu-ray being from the 4K master from their social media and forum posts.

Sorry for the long delay in adding this.

Studio Canal's 2020 release of The Ladykillers is a reference title unless you happen to have bought the simultaneously Blu-Ray first which is from the same source and the gap in quality is less pronounced.

I saw GeoffD listed as banned on Blu-Ray.com. No idea what led to his ban. Anyone know if he posts on other sites?

No idea but here's a thread about his ban. They're running a real tight ship over there

That thread is solely related to his ban a year ago, when he (correctly) implied Svet was a fool after one of the latter's typically terrible reviews. What this ban relates to, and how long it will be, I'm not sure is clear.

From what I gathered, possibly Svet's review of For All Mankind.

Why am I not surprised...