criterionforum.org

beamish13 wrote:

captveg wrote: This version should be easy enough to include with a branching version of the opening crawl for those who want it without the "Episode IV: A New Hope" changes.

Why the hell don't Blu-Ray's utilize the branching feature more? This would solve controversies like Criterion's decision to use the shorter cut of In the Realm of the Senses

Because it is a disc, with the data written as a spiral out to in, then in to out, you have to have the reader jump from its playback point to a new playback point and back again to branch. That takes time to physically move the laser so it makes the move not at all seamless.

If it were not a disc but solid state stored media though that would work.

captveg wrote:The simple answer is $$. It can be a major multiplier in authoring costs. (The more programming there is, the more programming problems can be introduced, the more QC costs, etc.) It is far, far less expensive to just put the full version of each variation of the film on the disc in its entirety.

Indeed. When I did a close analysis of both versions of Day of Anger to see if seamless branching was a viable option, I found 25 differences - which, as you say, would have been an authoring and QC nightmare. Technically possible, of course, but most likely not worth it in terms of the potential for introducing errors (and not all players take kindly to branching, a situation over which we would have had no control).

By contrast, with Immoral Tales, creating a seamlessly branched version of both cuts was easy, as it was simply a case of presenting a four or five-part version, with no further variations.

beamish13 wrote:

captveg wrote: This version should be easy enough to include with a branching version of the opening crawl for those who want it without the "Episode IV: A New Hope" changes.

Why the hell don't Blu-Ray's utilize the branching feature more? This would solve controversies like Criterion's decision to use the shorter cut of In the Realm of the Senses

The issue also sounds like it comes down to the slight but fundamental difference in whether a filmmaker (or their studio handling the film) might be fine with deleted or alternative scenes being present on the disc but opposed to an entire 'alternate cut' of the film being made available that they might not have signed off on as their 'final director's cut', or so on (as opposed to the Ridley Scotts and Oliver Stones of the world who want us to have the chance to experience every different version of Alexander! Or at least let us have the options of which one we prefer!). I've no idea about the behind the scenes wrangling that goes on about contracts and things like that, but I presume there are lots of preconditions and subclauses that actually cause strange situations like this to happen (and other more visible and impactful things from forced subtitles, to region coding, to lack of chapter stops so the entire film is experienced 'as one piece', seeming 'suppression' of obviously extant material from commercial release, and so on), when they would not have occurred in the natural course of things if a disc producer had their way.

I guess what I'm saying is that, while it seems about as likely to happen, I like to hold on to a (long held, rather than New) Hope that you'll also all bang the drum for a release of the original, unmodified version of THX-1138 too!

colinr0380 wrote:I guess what I'm saying is that, while it seems about as likely to happen, I like to hold on to a (long held, rather than New) Hope that you'll also all bang the drum for a release of the original, unmodified version of THX-1138 too!

Seconded!
That film needs rescuing just as much, if not more, from Lucas' alterations.

flyonthewall2983 wrote:Trailer for Elstree 1976

I'm biased because the director is one of my best friends, but this is a sweet little doc that deserves a couple of hours of your time. Not so much a Star Wars "making of" doc, more a look at how much a cultural behemoth can affect (both positively and negatively) even the lives of those who played only very small roles in it.

International House in Philadelphia had scheduled screenings of the "original" versions of the first three Star Wars films, booked through something called Exhumed Films. The latter claims to have had Fox's OK, but it appears that Fox and their sub-distributor (Criterion Pictures, no relation to Criterion Collection) ordered I.H. to cease and desist:

http://ihousephilly.org/calendar/the-or ... rs-trilogy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm curious who Exhumed Films is and on what basis they claimed to have the OK to show the films. My understanding is that Fox would not approve screenings of the original-original trilogy under almost any circumstances. I've managed to see a late-'70s 35mm print of Star Wars recently, but it was a pointedly "private" (unadvertised) screening.

Already canceled.

whaleallright wrote:International House in Philadelphia had scheduled screenings of the "original" versions of the first three Star Wars films, booked through something called Exhumed Films. The latter claims to have had Fox's OK, but it appears that Fox and their nontheatrical sub-distributor (Criterion Pictures, no relation to Criterion Collection) ordered I.H. to cease and desist:

http://ihousephilly.org/calendar/the-or ... rs-trilogy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm curious who Exhumed Films is and on what basis they claimed to have the OK to show the films. My understanding is that Fox would not approve screenings of the original-original trilogy under almost any circumstances. I've managed to see the a late-'70s 35mm print of Star Wars recently, but it was a pointedly "private" (unadvertised) screening.

I would not be surprised if this was a little shady, though they're pretty legit around here, they got Tarantino's original Whole Bloody Affair print from his personal collection, for example.

whaleallright wrote:I'm curious who Exhumed Films is and on what basis they claimed to have the OK to show the films. My understanding is that Fox would not approve screenings of the original-original trilogy under almost any circumstances. I've managed to see a late-'70s 35mm print of Star Wars recently, but it was a pointedly "private" (unadvertised) screening.

Exhumed Films is a repertory group that holds screenings at International House. My guess is that Exhumed acquired permission to show the films from Fox/Criterion, but didn't tell them at first they were going to screen prints of the original versions from (presumably) a private collection, perhaps naively assuming there would be no problem with it. They claim on Facebook they were within the terms of the agreement, but like you, my understanding is that it is basically impossible to do an authorized screening of the pre-'97 versions.

The 40th anniversary is next year, we've literally gotten every other Star Wars product imaginable, I'd sell my soul to the devil if we could just get the theatrical cuts remastered.

I can't remember the last time I fell asleep in a theater but can tell you I'm sure I wasn't singing that film's praises.

Anyway, I'd rank the films:

Empire
Hope
Jedi
Force
Rogue
Phantom
Sith/Clones

D50 wrote:Empire had the better ending: Luke gets his hand cut off, and finds out Vader's his father; Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. And that's life - a series of down endings. All Jedi had was a bunch of Muppets.

Jedi had a great opening, with no middle and a decent end.

phantomforce wrote:Skip the Prequels

I'll watch the prequels a hundred times over before I ever watch TFA again.

bearcuborg wrote:

D50 wrote:Empire had the better ending: Luke gets his hand cut off, and finds out Vader's his father; Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. And that's life - a series of down endings. All Jedi had was a bunch of Muppets.

Jedi had a great opening, with no middle and a decent end.

I've always had trouble reconciling the first act of ROTJ (or, "Operation: Rescue Han," as I sometimes call it) as it completely deviates from the trilogy's primary 'Galactic Civil War' arc and only slightly touches on its secondary arc of Luke training to be a Jedi and to restore them to their rightful place in the galaxy. Obviously it addressed a loose end left at the end of TESB... but I wonder if it wouldn't have been better suited as a theatrical short or something released around Christmas of '82 to give people a foretaste of the final movie and some other plotline was done for the first act.

I gotta say, Jedi's opening as a short is pretty intriguing!

But it ultimately doesn't matter because you still have to deal with Ewoks.

D50 wrote:Empire had the better ending: Luke gets his hand cut off, and finds out Vader's his father; Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. And that's life - a series of down endings. All Jedi had was a bunch of Muppets.

^ it's a Dante quote from Clerks. Here's the rest...

There was something else going on in Jedi. I never noticed it until today.

What's that?

All right, Vader's boss.

The Emperor.

Right, the Emperor. Now the Emperor is kind of a spiritual figure, yes?

How do you mean?

Well, he's like the pope for the dark side of the Force. He's a holy man; a shaman, kind of, albeit an evil one.

I guess.

Now, he's in charge of the Empire. The Imperial government is under his control. And the entire galaxy is under Imperial rule.

Yeah.

Then wouldn't that logically mean that it's a theocracy? If the head of the Empire is a priest of some sort, then it stands to reason that the government is therefore one based on religion.

It would stand to reason, yes.

Hence, the Empire was a fascist theocracy, and the rebel forces were therefore battling religious persecution.

More or less.

The only problem is that at no point in the series did I ever hear Leia or any of the rebels declare a particular religious belief.

I think they were Catholics.

Are you open?

Yeah. Come in.

You know what else I noticed in Jedi?

There's more?

So they build another Death Star, right?

Yeah.

Now the first one they built was completed and fully operational before the Rebels destroyed it.

Luke blew it up. Give credit where it's due.

And the second one was still being built when they blew it up.

Compliments of Lando Calrissian.

Something just never sat right with me the second time they destroyed it. I could never put my finger on it. Something just wasn't right.

And you figured it out?

Well, the thing is, the first Death Star was manned by the Imperial army storm troopers, dignitaries. The only people onboard were Imperials.

Basically.

So when they blew it up, no prob. Evil is punished.

And the second time around?

The second time around, it wasn't even finished yet. They were still under construction.

So?

A construction job of that magnitude would require a helluva lot more manpower than the Imperial army had to offer. I'll bet there were independent contractors working on that thing: plumbers, aluminum siders, roofers.

Not just Imperials, is what you're getting at?

Exactly. In order to get it built quickly and quietly they'd hire anybody who could do the job. Do you think the average storm trooper knows how to install a toilet main? All they know is killing and white uniforms.

All right, so even if independent contractors are working on the Death Star, why are you uneasy with its destruction?

All those innocent contractors hired to do a job were killed. Casualties of a war they had nothing to do with. All right, look - you're a roofer, and some juicy government contract comes your way; you got the wife and kids and the two-story in suburbia - this is a government contract, which means all sorts of benefits. All of a sudden these left-wing militants blast you with lasers and wipe out everyone within a three-mile radius. You didn't ask for that. You have no personal politics. You're just trying to scrape out a living.

Excuse me. I don't mean to interrupt, but what were you talking about?

The ending of Return of the Jedi.

My friend is trying to convince me that any contractors working on the uncompleted Death Star were innocent victims when the space station was destroyed by the rebels.

Well, I'm a contractor myself. I'm a roofer. Dunn and Reddy Home Improvements. And speaking as a roofer, I can say that a roofer's personal politics come heavily into play when choosing jobs.

Like when?

Three months ago I was offered a job up in the hills. A beautiful house with tons of property. It was a simple reshingling job, but I was told that if it was finished within a day, my price would be doubled. Then I realized whose house it was.

Whose house was it?

Dominick Bambino's.

"Babyface" Bambino? The gangster?

The same. The money was right, but the risk was too big. I knew who he was, and based on that, I passed the job on to a friend of mine.

Based on personal politics.

Right. And that week, the Foresci family put a hit on Babyface's house. My friend was shot and killed. He wasn't even finished shingling.

No way!

I'm alive because I knew there were risks involved taking on that particular client. My friend wasn't so lucky. You know, any contractor willing to work on that Death Star knew the risks. If they were killed, it was their own fault. A roofer listens to this... (taps his heart) not his wallet.

bearcuborg wrote:But it ultimately doesn't matter because you still have to deal with Ewoks.

The Ewoks might've been easier to accept if they didn't look so damn much like teddy bears.

MoonlitKnight wrote:

bearcuborg wrote:But it ultimately doesn't matter because you still have to deal with Ewoks.

The Ewoks might've been easier to accept if they didn't look so damn much like teddy bears.

Family Guy actually got them right...

So, did you go - or are you still waiting?

Alamo Drafthouse is running a funny Star Wars parody of their no talking PSA. It ran before The Force Awakens as well.

Being wrote:What's lacking at Lucasfilm right now is an artist with vision and imagination. At this point, Lucasfilm is just recycling and rearranging George's ideas from 40 years ago. I'm sure the main saga will be fine at least through Episode 9, but what Lucasfilm really needs now is not a bunch of Han Solo and Obi Wan and Boba Fett fan-service standalone films that have to operate in this confined, small little time period, they need another big, original saga, with bold, brand-new ideas, set either long before or long after the Skywalker saga, so the two sagas are unrelated in terms of direct storyline connections, aside from the Force.

Lucas ultimately envisioned SW as a space opera and family soap opera, so that's the angle I'm sticking with until further notice. According to his biographer, he apparently also had an outline for Episodes X-XII, so who knows what will become of that...

MoonlitKnight wrote:

Being wrote:What's lacking at Lucasfilm right now is an artist with vision and imagination. At this point, Lucasfilm is just recycling and rearranging George's ideas from 40 years ago. I'm sure the main saga will be fine at least through Episode 9, but what Lucasfilm really needs now is not a bunch of Han Solo and Obi Wan and Boba Fett fan-service standalone films that have to operate in this confined, small little time period, they need another big, original saga, with bold, brand-new ideas, set either long before or long after the Skywalker saga, so the two sagas are unrelated in terms of direct storyline connections, aside from the Force.

Lucas ultimately envisioned SW as a space opera and family soap opera, so that's the angle I'm sticking with until further notice. According to his biographer, he apparently also had an outline for Episodes X-XII, so who knows what will become of that...

Nothing, considering his notes were not consulted for Episodes 7-9?

Roscoe wrote:ROGUE ONE seemed an explicitly implicit statement that they're well aware that all anybody really wants is the first movie back.

I think they know they can only satiate that desire a certain number of times before needing to move forward. Episode VIII seems to be the first really forward thinking film of the new Disney ones because they allowed TFA to establish new characters people want to move forward with. That was one of the two most important things for TFA to accomplish, the other being a re-invigoration of the "Star Wars" good vibes. Now that that's locked in they can actually explore new avenues (at least relative to SW).

The spin-off films are another matter. The next two (Han Solo and Boba Fett) are locked into fan service characters, which is just another variation on the fan service side-story that is Rogue One. They have a great cast/crew working on Han Solo, so it could work out well, but the Boba Fett one could be tricky. I really hope the latest rumor is true (see below). Do this as the cold open, then straight up remake Yojimbo/A Fistful of Dollars, and BAM - instant Boba Fett movie. (Don't even be coy about it - just say "It's an adaptation of Yojimbo/A Fistful of Dollars". Those that like SW and have seen either of those films will say "Cool - and the original SW borrowed from Kurosawa, too." Those that like SW and have never seen either of those films will shrug and say "Whatever. Hey, a new SW movie!")

"They claim that this version of the spin-off will be an 'origin story'. But what that means is unclear, as Attack of the Clones gave Boba Fett and his Father Jango Fett a pretty good origin. Though some believe the man under the mask when we come to know him in Empire Strikes Back is not the same character that Daniel Logan plays in the prequels. Even though Logan is the right age to portray Boba Fett in a stand-alone movie, there have been ongoing rumors that Creed star Micheal B. Jordan is wanted as Boba Fett, who assumes the Bounty Hunter's identity after killing the real Boba Fett and stealing his Mandalorian armor."

http://movieweb.com/boba-fett-movie-in- ... star-wars/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe it's official that the third standalone will be a Boba Fett film. Last I saw K. Kennedy was wringing her hands over what to do with the one-offs after the young Han Solo movie. It's entirely possible they'll do the bounty hunter but in my experience that all started as a fandom wish list rumor that became a self-perpetuating meme. Some people think it'll be a Yoda film. And Ewan wants an Obi Wan twofer.

I like the idea of a Vader-centric story. I mean Vader, not Anakin, thank you very much. Speaking of which, upon seeing his castle in Rogue One, I momentarily thought I was back in Middle Earth.

I'd love them to do a bunch of Star Wars Kurosawa stories; why not actually do a Star Wars Seven Samurai, considering everybody for some reason always insists the first one is like Seven Samurai? It'd probably only pan out for literally this example and the one above in any capacity that makes any sense but it seems like such an obvious path for some standalone stuff in future.