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I can't for the life of me see how that's supposed to match the faded look Zsigmond and Altman were after. No shame.

Yeah, this looks similar to the change from the hazier Criterion to the sharper, more highly saturated Arrow presentation of 3 Women. In both instances, I prefer hazy.

In any event, this is a pretty detailed article on the flashing technique as used by Zsigmond specifically on the film, including some specific shots.

I've seen it on 35mm at least twice, and I also remember it having that foggy, less saturated appearance closer to the previous releases, but on the other hand, all the other Altman prints I've ever seen were well-loved, and I can't discount fading and wear as a factor in that effect. (The print I saw of McCabe before the Criterion release was among the most memorably, insufferably worn prints I've ever seen...)

The Arrow release is, per the booklet, from an original interpositive with grading supervised by Zsigmond...and this one is from a new scan of, presumably, the same interpositive, per their announcement listing, just without grading supervision by the now-dead Zsigmond. I suppose KL's saving argument might be that, if Zsigmond & Co. famously flashed the negative between shooting and development, and everybody knows that... how and why would they add saturation and contrast that wasn't in the interpositive? Unless there's an archival interpositive they used, and another has more color-timing done after the flashing? On the other hand, there's nothing "pastel" about the new Kino caps of the neighbor girls stretching, Gould on the beach, or Hayden; and Zsigmond is pretty clear in the ASC write-up that pastel was the rule from the start... Zsigmond also talks about combining pushing the negative and using minimal flashing to get more levels in the shadows, and the Arrow release definitely has more levels in the two night shots, one of Eileen Wade in her car at DVDBeaver, and the other of the beach at night in this caps-a-holic cap.

The 35mm and Arrow release = people with cataracts
The new KL version = post-cataract surgery

As William Blake once said, "If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinitely colorful.".

Feego wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:30 am Yeah, this looks similar to the change from the hazier Criterion to the sharper, more highly saturated Arrow presentation of 3 Women. In both instances, I prefer hazy.

Having seen 3 Women numerous times in the cinema the Criterion transfer is much closer to the big screen experience. The Arrow is too bright and removes the dream-like cinematography. I too prefer the Criterion.

I've never had the opportunity The Long Goodbye on the big screen.

I’ve seen it more than once in 35mm, and I definitely think the hazier look is closer to what was intended.

(Full disclosure: I produced the Arrow release, but I don’t get royalties and don’t work for them any more, so have no incentive to lie about this.)

Kino's weekend announcements:
Terror Out of the Sky
Francis the Talking Mule 7-film collection

hate to say it but I wish Criterion had gotten The Long Goodbye after their fantastic work on transferring the 'flashing' in both McCabe and Mrs. Miller and 3 Women. I know it's a pretty hard look to nail and I do think Kino's original BD had room for improvement, but to just remove it completely is pretty disappointing. I'll have to pick up the Arrow release at some point, I assume it's a step above the first KLSC release

Nothing wrong with the Arrow Blu-ray so long as you're region-free

dwk wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:48 pm Francis the Talking Mule 7-film collection

Shocked they’re not releasing this as seven individual titles

Criterion hasn't done much with 3 Women except recycling their decade-old HD master, which most certainly isn't faithful either to the original photography of the movie, especially color-wise. The issue with the newer master is that it's a Fox Deluxe-like restoration that most likely is revisionist in terms of color-grading.

According to my ancestors, it was smoggier out here in LA during the 70's and 80's than it is now. So the flashing captured that hazy LA look. And flashing also imparted a nostalgic tone to the film even as Altman was commenting on the absurdity of noir tropes by updating Marlowe as a fish out of water in the 70's sun and fun culture.

But it's clearer out here now and the new KL version sort of captures that: a Marlowe not for the 70's anymore (a 70's that some may be nostalgic for)... but a Marlowe for the clear-eyed 2020's.

It seems a different film now but with the same meta-brilliance that transcends decades because the 1940's and 50's will live on film/digital/whatever until our sun grows in size and burns our planet to a hazy-flashed crisp.

Bluray.com… The Long Goodbye

Remember, Body Heat had that same hazy look. Would hate if they took that haze away as well

Yikes, they really boosted the contrast! I guess that's how they managed to reduce the haze too. Really unfortunate, I absolutely do not recall night scenes that were so dark that it was very hard to make anything out. (I remember even the beach scene at night - the one scene that was SUPPOSED to be dark - had just enough visibility where it wasn't a struggle to know what was going on.)

More OOP based on previously being in the "While Supplies Last" sale and now no longer appearing on the website:

The Ambassador (1984) (BD)
Bad Man's River (1971) (BD) (DVD still available)
David & Lisa (1962) (BD) (Scorpion)
The Depatie/Freleng Collection Vol. 2 (1972-1978) (BD) (DVD set also OOP; BD/DVD individual releases still available)
Foreign Intrigue (1956) (BD) (DVD previously OOP)

tenia wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:52 pm Criterion hasn't done much with 3 Women except recycling their decade-old HD master, which most certainly isn't faithful either to the original photography of the movie, especially color-wise. The issue with the newer master is that it's a Fox Deluxe-like restoration that most likely is revisionist in terms of color-grading.

The Criterion still looks a lot closer to general look of the cinema print I saw just before covid (so maybe Jan/Feb 2020) colour wise.

Kino announced a set of three Edgar G. Ulmer sci-fi films: The Man from Planet X, Beyond the Time Barrier, and The Amazing Transparent Man

Another Criterion UHD, "In the Heat of the Night" 4K announced.

Kino is releasing Electra Glide in Blue from a new 4K master next year.

Today's KLSC announcements:
• Good Guys Wear Black (1978) Directed by Ted Post
• A Force of One (1979) Directed by Paul Aaron
• The Octagon (1980) Directed by Eric Carson

Individual releases, all from new 2K masters.

"The Killing" and "Killer's Kiss" 4K announced.

I'm convinced now that Kino had sneakily signed a deal with MGM first, as there is no way Criterion wouldn't have at least attempted to grab the 4K rights for either title.

I'm not a Kubrick completist so am fine with Killer's Kiss not being bundled with The Killing. Kino will sell their UHDs for $18 or so during a sale (at least that's what I paid for The Good The Bad & The Ugly, and I *think* Misery was the same or similar price point at the last sale). Criterion's UHDs would have cost $25 during a sale, so I'm honestly fine with Kino getting some of the Kubricks provided their 2022 releases are up to snuff like their first three UHDs were.

ChunkyLover wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:08 pm "The Killing" and "Killer's Kiss" 4K announced.

yoloswegmaster wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:19 pm I'm convinced now that Kino had sneakily signed a deal with MGM first, as there is no way Criterion wouldn't have at least attempted to grab the 4K rights for either title.

I'm not convinced of this. First off the Kino Insider said they never get "first dibs" over Criterion. Secondly, what makes these titles a no brainer for Criterion. They probably have a list of 100 titles or so they want released on UHD. For instance, it wouldn't surprise me that many of the SC titles coming back getting UHD releases (Contempt anyone, how does that sound). Besides, surely there would be better candidates amongst Kubrick's films to get a UHD.