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domino harvey wrote:Definitive proof that there is no God

So it seems the vitriol each show had for the other has died down, although who really cares since, well, it's The Simpsons and Family Guy.

domino harvey wrote:Apparently this already happened and what the fucking shit: Quagmire rapes Marge Simpson then proceeds to murder entire Simpson family. Are you laughing yet!?

The cherry on top are the absolutely awful impressions of the Simpsons. If you gave me five minutes and a microphone, I could do a better job on all the characters.

In a more perfect world, they'd all be called the Flimpsons. And also cancelled ten years ago.

domino harvey wrote:Apparently this already happened and what the fucking shit: Quagmire rapes Marge Simpson then proceeds to murder entire Simpson family. Are you laughing yet!?

Good heavens, that just made me unreasonably angry -- as a former fan of The Simpsons and as a human with a sense of decency. It underlines how much of a violation any legitimate "crossover" is to be... which is something of a paradox, as I am so distant from what The Simpsons now is that I shouldn't take any decimation of it personally. Just seems like shaking hands with the Family Guy devil is the latest in a long line of ways for the skeleton of The Simpsons to ruthlessly mock the people who once had the audacity to love it and take it seriously.

I found that Quagmire scene completely disgusting and it's sad that Groening has resorted to this.

Another crossover between the two already happened on a Simpsons Halloween episode in which Homer clones himself hundreds of time and one of the clones was Peter Griffin.

dx23 wrote:Another crossover between the two already happened on a Simpsons Halloween episode in which Homer clones himself hundreds of time and one of the clones was Peter Griffin.

Hank Hill, too.

I'm going to withhold judgement until seeing it, but I think it's kind of cool.

Guillermo Del Toro directing the next "Treehouse Of Horror" is bigger news I think.

It sounds to me like he's only directing the intro

dustybooks wrote:

domino harvey wrote:Apparently this already happened and what the fucking shit: Quagmire rapes Marge Simpson then proceeds to murder entire Simpson family. Are you laughing yet!?

Good heavens, that just made me unreasonably angry -- as a former fan of The Simpsons and as a human with a sense of decency. It underlines how much of a violation any legitimate "crossover" is to be... which is something of a paradox, as I am so distant from what The Simpsons now is that I shouldn't take any decimation of it personally. Just seems like shaking hands with the Family Guy devil is the latest in a long line of ways for the skeleton of The Simpsons to ruthlessly mock the people who once had the audacity to love it and take it seriously.

Ugh. Can't believe that is actually real.

Out of curiosity, I was wondering if any of the former Simpsons fans here had a specific moment when they realized they'd had enough with the show rather than a gradual loss of interest.

For me, it was this episode. I watched here and there for another year or so after, but it was clear that the great show I grew up with wasn't ever coming back.

Although, looking back, I suppose I should have been more nauseated by how Maude Flanders' death was handled than I was at the time (a few short episodes earlier)

I think it was the episode where Flanders opens the theme park where people had visions. I just gave up then. I've caught episodes here and there but it's gotten progressively worse. The movie had some of the charm of the early seasons though.

I believe the last episode I saw after a lifetime of tuning in every week was "the Wandering Juvie" from Season 15. It's not that there was anything in particular bad about it (or, worse than any other episode of the era), I just remember I missed the next week's episode and then the next and so on until after a few weeks I acknowledged it was all over between me and the Simpsons

mfunk9786 wrote:Although, looking back, I suppose I should have been more nauseated by how Maude Flanders' death was handled than I was at the time (a few short episodes earlier)

That was the one that did it for me. Though it was more the period at the end of a shitty sentence than the entire reason for storming off in itself.

It was doubly frustrated because that happened right around the time I was beginning to watch the show when new episodes would air, rather than exclusively in syndication- it felt like they had jerked the rug out from under me.

Wow, Domino, you lasted a while! I don't envy your Sunday nights from 2000-2004

mfunk9786 wrote:Wow, Domino, you lasted a while! I don't envy your Sunday nights from 2000-2004

I was trying to pinpoint the last episode I saw by going through episode descriptions and wow, I have blocked out most of the two seasons which preceded that episode but they all vaguely came back to me. It helped that for whatever reason I could remember the ads for the first episode I missed (Skinner and Krabappel get married... or do they) but yeah, pretty chilling stuff

I'm always blown away by folks who swore off the show because of pretty great episodes like Homer's Enemy - there are signs of cracks in the armor at that point, but the show still felt pretty much like it was still in the (however waning) golden era until around late Season 9, and there are still some good episodes in Season 10... but as far as I'm concerned, the quality declined surprisingly suddenly for a show that was consistently great for years. It went from still fantastic to nearly unwatchable within a year or two's time. Seasons 10 and 11 are the only ones that are in "limbo" between golden era and awful awfulness - some good episodes, some decent episodes, some horrible episodes. But not consistently bad enough to be considered fully gone.

It's just like a dying long-term relationship: you stay together out of habit, there's some occasional good times but it's all a hollow shell of what it once was and eventually one of you does what needs to be done to end it

I'm interested in that two people cited Flanders-centric episodes here. Beginning with the aforementioned 'death of Maude Flanders' episode, Ned's changes over the next few seasons were part of what sat poorly with me. No matter how pious, naive, or annoying, the earlier writers still gifted him with a certain level of nobility and respect for his way of life. Later seasons sully that image. There was a line in the episode "Mom and Pop Art" from season ten that always bugged me. Ned is looking out of his bedroom window seeing the streets flooded and assumes there was a Moses-style flood. When he sees Homer rowing past in a boat he bitterly declares, "Looks like heaven's easier to get into than Arizona State." It was a level of self-righteousness I'd never seen before in his character and it suggested to me that cynicism had finally taken over Springfield.

Barney's another character that was unbearably altered in later years. Didn't he have a coffee addiction for a while? Hilarious stuff, Ian Maxtone-Graham & co. Just hilarious

It's interesting to me that I think season 9 has some killer episodes which nonetheless commit all the lazy writing and characterization heresies that spelled the shows downfall later one- Prinicpal and the Pauper, the "Oh, let's say, Moe" gag at the end of Das Bus, the retread Christmas episode, etc- but the gags stayed sharp enough that the show was pretty brilliant. Even the (in my view) far shittier next couple of seasons could still be relied upon for the occasional awesome line or two. Past that, though, and the sense of humor just vanishes. So- did the humor leave because the characterization and dedication to a coherent Springfield disappeared, or the other way around?

The episode after which I knew it was over was E-I-E-I-(Annoyed Grunt) from season 11. Of course the show had had some outright ridiculous jokes in the past, but this is the first time I remember the joke being sustained for such a length. It was too over the top and didn't seem consistent with the series to that point. For me, it's this episode that signalled the show's transition.

The mishandling of Flanders after Maude's death, and the Skinner-Krabappel relationship do standout in memory as leading to some aggravating moments, and entire episodes (A Star is Born Again, for example).

matrixschmatrix wrote:It's interesting to me that I think season 9 has some killer episodes which nonetheless commit all the lazy writing and characterization heresies that spelled the shows downfall later one- Prinicpal and the Pauper, the "Oh, let's say, Moe" gag at the end of Das Bus, the retread Christmas episode, etc- but the gags stayed sharp enough that the show was pretty brilliant. Even the (in my view) far shittier next couple of seasons could still be relied upon for the occasional awesome line or two. Past that, though, and the sense of humor just vanishes. So- did the humor leave because the characterization and dedication to a coherent Springfield disappeared, or the other way around?

Honestly, I think that the writing staff in place after Oakley and Weinstein left didn't necessarily have a ton of respect for what made the show work so well in the past, and it didn't help that the animation got more sleek (and had far less character), and the voice actors began literally phoning in their performances over ISDN lines, etc from different parts of the country on a weekly basis. Plus, it's a lot to ask of voice actors to be able to do the same voices the same way for decades - that era was definitely the beginning of Homer/Bart/Moe/a few others sounding a bit off from what they once sounded like. It was a number of factors all hitting a show that should have been closing up shop at once, but instead of putting an end to it, they continued it for another 15 years. I feel bad for kids who watch syndicated Simpsons episodes these days, because the odds of getting a decent golden era episode on any given night are stacked against them.

Another thing that started to drive me crazy around that time was creating new recurring characters that were woefully unfunny. Lindsey Naegle started showing up nearly every week, for example - I don't know that the writers shared the sense of humor of most of the show's audience during that era, and it resulted in a quick skid rather than a graceful decline.

"Tennis the Menace" (February 11, 2001) was the episode that did it for me. It was perhaps not coincidentally when they began to move to all-digital production and perhaps also not coincidentally the episode just after the one titled "Worst Episode Ever."