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tenia wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:41 pm Yes, this is a case of not properly setting up the options of the encoder, though with such a high AVB for the FEL layer, I wonder how the base layer vs DV layer split might affect that.

There does seem to be a correlation between how big the FEL layer is and how poor the HDR10 compression ends up. Though you'd think that would still lead to a DV encode that fixes the problems, but in the case of Juice that's apparently not the case (I've not seen the disc myself).

tenia wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:16 pm I didn't know about Juice's UHD compression, which you don't even need to Ultra Zoom at 400% to see it's just wrong. Wow.

Wow. Looks like Pixelogic got their hands on this. </s>

Thanks for the feedback, Eddie. I had cited poor compression in the OP on page 1 as well as DNR, I'll amend that now to take DNR out as a root cause. I was thinking myself, I might still get this when it drops below $20 eventually for the BD. The BD is not sold separately, I think (or is it)?

12 Monkeys at caps a holic

Good example of UHD's superior handling of highlights.

Twelve Monkeys (if compared to all BDs except Arrow's 2018 BD)

Twelve Monkeys (if compared to Arrow's 2018 BD)

Geoff D on Liberty Valance, wherein he acknowledges some unfortunate issues but is fan of it overall, especially the HDR grading.

RAH acknowledges Geoff's review here and explains his distaste for the disc having more to do with the fact it could have easily been perfect (indeed he states this would have taken less effort on Paramount's part, not more), rather than it being some unmitigated unwatchable disaster, ultimately seeming to bring his feelings more in line with Geoff's.

In other words, the UHD is a more than safe purchase, and a definite upgrade over the old Blu-ray, which really was horrible looking (ironically, RAH had nothing but praise for that one!).

I remember the BD being "divisive" (ie having issues that some either couldn't see or didn't want to aknowlege).

EddieLarkin wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 2:10 pm Geoff D on Liberty Valance, wherein he acknowledges some unfortunate issues but is fan of it overall, especially the HDR grading.

RAH acknowledges Geoff's review here and explains his distaste for the disc having more to do with the fact it could have easily been perfect (indeed he states this would have taken less effort on Paramount's part, not more), rather than it being some unmitigated unwatchable disaster, ultimately seeming to bring his feelings more in line with Geoff's.

In other words, the UHD is a more than safe purchase, and a definite upgrade over the old Blu-ray, which really was horrible looking (ironically, RAH had nothing but praise for that one!).

"Waxy", as it is called by Bluraylowdown, DVDBeaver, High Def Digest, etc.

Henry UHD added to OP:

Reference disc for first time owners or any BD/DVD older than the US 2016 4k-sourced Blu-Ray

Solid upgrade for owners of the 2016 Dark Sky/2021 Carlotta discs (NOTE: the Carlotta disc has the same error at the 23:43 minute mark as Arrow's first UHD & BD pressing)

As the caps show, the UHD retrieves detail in the shadows/blacks lost on the Dark Sky BD.

What was the issue with the Henry UHD that people were bringing up, because it doesn't seem visible in those caps?

Between the 23 and 24 minute mark, a shot of a woman leaving a car from an earlier scene was accidentally re-inserted into the 4k scan provided to Arrow and other European labels and this was not spotted by anyone until a user pointed it out on the other forum. Arrow told everyone to hold onto their copies for the time being. Caps-a-holics did not include shots of the Arrow BD due to the wrong color space which was an error of Arrow's own making.

I know I'm not Geoff, but The Quick and the Dead UHD looks pretty incredible to my eyes

caps for Shout's The Craft UHD

The film has a lot of opticals applied in the opening scenes which is why it is looking very soft. Once the credits are over, it looks good.

EDIT: downgraded to disappointment after seeing reports of average to poor compression

Candyman (Scream Factory/Arrow) (if compared to all BDs except the Arrow and Scream)
Candyman (Scream Factory/Arrow) (if compared to the Arrow & Scream BDs)

Death Wish II caps

EDIT: Amended OP to reflect complaints about the poor encoding. Disc is now listed under Disappointments.

Also downgraded Scream's The Craft disc.

Too bad the encoding is complete ass.

Wild Things (Arrow) (if compared to Sony's BD)
Wild Things (Arrow) (if compared to Arrow's BD)

Both are encoded by David M (Fidelity in Motion), by the way. The booklet erroneously credited The Engine House.

How did they miscredit it in the booklet? Seems like an easily avoidable mistake

The Engine House did the subtitles so someone must have made one copy and paste too many in the acknowledgements and it wasn't spotted. At least it's not a fault with the disc itself.

Any word on the Cabinet of Dr. Caligari UHD?

The German UHD is not English-friendly.

Someone uploaded screen captures (choose from dropdown list) of the Eureka BD, the German BD and the UHD and you have to click on the image for each version or use the left/right arrow keys.

Thanks. I don’t need the subs, but I’m not so sure the upgrade will be worth it.

GeoffD on Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, a film probably originally rendered at a 1080 or sub-1080 resolution.

Conclusion? A top tier UHD and a significant upgrade over the compartively poor sounding Blu-ray.

Devan Scott (who I think posts here every now and then, and whom you should absolutely follow if you find scanning/encoding/grading/etc. interesting) on the Liberty Valence UHD and the problem of worse encodes for better resolutions.

senseabove wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:25 pm Devan Scott (who I think posts here every now and then, and whom you should absolutely follow if you find scanning/encoding/grading/etc. interesting) on the Liberty Valence UHD and the problem of worse encodes for better resolutions.

Came here to post this, fascinating and a great way of walking one through this.

It's great that these issues are being discussed, but as I made clear in a number of tweets in response to Devan, I largely disagree with his conclusions. The issue of poor compression on UHD has little to do with studios opting for low bitrates, and it certainly has bugger all to do with the data capacity of UHD discs (Devan later went on to tweet that the solution to the issue would be for UHDs to hold 200GB, instead of 66GB/100GB). David M proves this with every disc he works on.

Liberty Valance looks poor in terms of grain reproduction because its encode is not optimised well, made worse by the fact Paramount use FEL Dolby Vision, which as discussed elsewhere often leads to poorer HDR10 layers (which is the layer screencaps show). Anatomy of a Murder on UHD has a very similar bit rate as Liberty Valance, is of a similar vintage, is in B&W (an important factor, as there is no chroma channel to compress, so a lower bitrate can be used) and uses a lovely new and very grainy 4K HDR master. And yet its presentation on UHD is essentially flawless. Liberty Valance could have been flawless too, even with the bitrate it currently uses on UHD.

Ultimately, there is very little difference between the problems of UHD compression and the problems of BD compression. Some studios/labels simply do not optimise their encodes to ensure proper fidelity to the source master, and that's been the case for over a decade. It's simply not true to say the UHD format routinely gets worse encodes than BD used to get, indeed, I would say the opposite. So far, we've seen far better grain reproduction on UHD, as evidenced strongly by Criterion's move to the format. They were often one of the worst when it came to BD compression, yet all of their UHDs have been problem free so far.