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swo17 wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:53 pm 45 minutes could be a good practical cutoff point because that's how IMDb tags shorts, making it much easier to skim through a director's filmography and identify the first feature. (Note though that some films for which the runtime has not been identified will obviously not be tagged this way.)

Then there's also the question of how to pit impressive debuts from cherished directors against films that are the best (or perhaps only noteworthy) thing that director did. For instance, Hard Eight is awesome but also the most generic film PTA has made. Personally, I think I'd tend to favor more of the one-offs

I agree with both of those points. The 45 min is fair, even if it means Eustache's The Mother and the Whore doesn't count, at least it permits Paris Belongs to Us, which is less debatably Rivette's first feature.

As for how to decide a list-contender, I'm going to follow a similar logic if not completely. Hard Eight won't make my list, but other films that are nowhere near my favorites from the director will. Breathless is a good example- a film that may or may not crack a top ten Godard list for me, but is so revolutionary and screams a passionate immediacy by the auteur in question that it'll be hard to think of a film better suited to top my list.

lzx wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:37 pm

Maltic wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:44 am Distant Voices, Still Lives 1988

Unless the current rules change I don't think this qualifies sadly since Davies' Children (1976) is over forty minutes long!

Thanks for that! No doubt there are more corrections to be made for my post (I'm unsure about Nanook, for example). Davies didn't feel like a shoe-in to begin with, the Trilogy coming before Distant Voices.

Nanook is an interesting case--it's Flaherty's first credited film, but the original version of it was lost (destroyed in a fire) and he had to remake it into the version we know, which is supposedly radically different. Was the original version a finished film though?

swo17 wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:00 pm Nanook is an interesting case--it's Flaherty's first credited film, but the original version of it was lost (destroyed in a fire) and he had to remake it into the version we know, which is supposedly radically different. Was the original version a finished film though?

What are you, Perry Mason?

Fandango (Kevin Reynolds): Above average coming-of-age story about four diverse personality types setting out on the road for one last hurrah before the harsh stages of life set in for each one. Reynolds plays into some clichéd moments but approaches his characters and their motives with such earnestness that even in most of these recycled bits we sense their familiarity as non-artificial experiences in spirit. I especially enjoyed an early suspense-drilling setpiece that serves an unexpectedly anticlimactic punchline, against the grain of Costner’s confidence, which is so convincing even we become swayed into the feasibility of his wild ideas!

Fear, Anxiety & Depression (Todd Solondz): It’s too bad Solondz has suppressed his first work, since regardless of its amateurism or his traumatically compromised experience with the studio system, it’s an on-brand first feature that captures the artist’s heightened perceptiveness to the darkly hilarious, perversely oppressive, and absurdly poignant truths of navigating one’s social context. A Woody Allen film pitched towards John Waters after reading too much Kafka. Plus you get to see Solondz act as the main WA-emulating character, which is pretty fun in his unapologetic self-debasement. Definitely recommended.

O Sangue (Pedro Costa): I'm hot and cold on Costa, but liked this. I'm not sure exactly what to make of it, but Adrian Martin wrote an interesting piece that captures the acute anxiety of the technique and how the transitioning from and within images feel like unstable life-or-death moments, which I think soundchaser was getting at in his description. It's a great film of 'feeling', even if I can't describe much beyond that. I'm sure a repeat viewing would be helpful.

swo17 wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:00 pm Nanook is an interesting case--it's Flaherty's first credited film, but the original version of it was lost (destroyed in a fire) and he had to remake it into the version we know, which is supposedly radically different. Was the original version a finished film though?

Part of the fascinating discussion in this thread over the past few days is that the ontology of a director is far more difficult to assess than presumed - what counts as first? What is the arbitray delinearation between short and feature film? How should we understand the concept of the debut? And as we've seen what is usually counted as a director's 'first film' is anything but that - there's often a shadowy 'first' that is looked over in later years by the director and critics alike.

swo17 wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:00 pm Nanook is an interesting case--it's Flaherty's first credited film, but the original version of it was lost (destroyed in a fire) and he had to remake it into the version we know, which is supposedly radically different. Was the original version a finished film though?

Interesting question. If Nanook gets disqualified as a result, I suppose Reservoir Dogs should technically be disqualified too since My Best Friend's Birthday originally ran 70 minutes.

I hadn't heard of it before but yeah, apparently half of that Tarantino film was lost in a fire.

And obviously we can’t comb through interviews to determine what the directors think themselves in every instance up for debate- though this should certainly have an impact on qualification- but Tarantino has publicly declared Reservoir Dogs to be his first feature film, and I believe Rivette did the same with Paris

This list is something of a tire fire right now due to some unforeseen issues with eligibility so there will be some changes coming to what is voteable. Stay tuned and stick to obvious inclusions for the time being if you are prioritizing viewings

By the way I’m appreciating people just listing stuff. I completely skipped over Szindbad originally and would
Have had Malle take that spot instead.

The Basilisks (aka The Lizards) (Lina Wertmuller, 1963)
Bone (Larry Cohen, 1972)
The Flesh of the Orchard (Patrice Chéreau, 1975)
Inserts (John Byrum, 1975)
Nighthawks (Ron Peck, 1978)
Radio On (Christopher Petit, 1979)
That Sinking Feeling (Bill Forsyth, 1979)
Maeve (Pat Murphy, 1981)
A Question of Silence (Marleen Gorris, 1981)
The Funeral (Juzo Itami, 1984)
Henry V (Kenneth Branagh, 1989)
The Scent of the Green Papaya (Tran Anh Hung, 1993)
Freeway (Matthew Bright, 1996)
Billy Eliott (Stephen Daldry, 2000)
Rosalie Blum (Julien Rappeneau, 2015)

Aunt Peg wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:55 am Bone (Larry Cohen, 1972)

I totally missed this one- an astonishing and bold debut. Man, a list of 25 is gonna be really tough.

The Moon and the Sixpence (Albert Lewin, 1942)
Man is Not a Bird (Dusan Makavejev, 1965)
More (Barbet Schroeder, 1969)
Something for Everyone (Harold Prince, 1970)
Private Parts (Paul Bartel, 1972)
Harlan County U.S.A. (Barbara Kopple, 1977)
Peppermint Soda (Diane Kurys, 1977)
Body Heat (Lawrence Kasdan, 1981)
Fast Times at Ridgemont High (Amy Heckerling, 1982)
Yentl (Barbra Streisand, 1983)
Bliss (Ray Lawrence, 1985)
Parting Glances (Bill Sherwood, 1986)
Broken Noses (Bruce Webber, 1987)
Cane Toads: An Unnatural History (Mark Lewis, 1988)
Life Is a Long Quiet River (Étienne Chatiliez, 1988)
Tales from the Gimli Hospital (Guy Maddin, 1988)
Baxter (Jérôme Boivin, 1989)
No Skin Off My Ass (Bruce La Bruce, 1991)
Strictly Ballroom (Baz Luhrmann, 1992)
Kids (Larry Clark, 1995)
Gummo (Harmony Korine, 1997)
Songs My Brothers Taught Me (Chloe Zhao, 2015)

That reminds me, I meant to include Showalter’s The Baxter in my last batch. That’ll have to take the cake on the Stella folks’ debuts

A few actors who greatly impressed with their feature film directorial debuts:

Heaven (Diane Keaton, 1987)
Nil by Mouth (Gary Oldman, 1997)
The War Zone (Tim Roth, 1999)
Tyannosaur (Paddy Considine, 2011)

Culloden (Peter Watkins, 1964)
Young Torless (Volker Schlöndorff, 1966)
The Devil's Playground (Fred Schepisi, 1976)
Jabberwocky (Terry Gilliam, 1977) **
Monty Python's Life of Brian (Terry Jones, 1978) **
Prostitute (Tony Garnett, 1980)
Mala Noche (Gun Van Sant, 1986)
Hunger (Steve McQueen, 2008)
Snowtown (Justin Kurzel, 2011)

As they co-directed Monty Python and the Holy Grail (1975) should this be counted for both of them instead of their solo debuts?

Diane Keaton's debut looks interesting. I'll give it a whirl. The rest of her filmography (she has a filmography!) looks pretty dire.

My Childhood (Bill Douglas). Scotland's Citizen Kane.

My American Cousin (Sandy Wilson, 1985). I have a lot of affection for this based on when it came out, and its setting in the Okanagan. But it's charming in its own right too. Wilson was a one hit wonder (in Canada). The sequel American Boyfriends wasn't any good, and bombed as I remember it. Her only other film Harmony Cats appears to be barely known.

bottled spider wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:10 pm
My American Cousin (Sandy Wilson, 1985). I have a lot of affection for this based on when it came out, and its setting in the Okanagan. But it's charming in its own right too. Wilson was a one hit wonder (in Canada). The sequel American Boyfriends wasn't any good, and bombed as I remember it. Her only other film Harmony Cats appears to be barely known.

I saw My American Cousin at the 1985 or 1986 Sydney Film Festival. It wasn't scheduled to play but as something else didn't turn up it got screened instead. The audience went ga-ga for it and rightfully so - an utter delight of a film. It was released on video a few months later and was a big renter. One of those many gems that sadly appear lost these days.

Mr. and Mrs. Kabal's Theatre (Walerian Borowczyk, 1967)
Fando y Lis (Alejandro Jodorosky, 1970)
Bad Company (Robert Benton, 1972)
Hester Street (Joan Micklin SIlver, 1974)
The Toy (Francis Verber, 1976)
The Decline of Western Civilization (Penelope Spheeris, 1985)
Celia (Ann Turner, 1989)
A Way of Life (Amma Asante, 2004)

Okay, my adjustment is this: there are a lot of films that technically fit the perimeters of this list but don't qualify for the spirit of it. But that gets some of you super hard so that's okay. The new rule is an adjusted version of Vote For It, namely:

> You may select only one film per director on your list, but that film could be the first shorter work (that's still at least 40 minutes long-- that's not going away) or the first fuller-length film
> You may select the film that came chronologically first or was discovered much later after the fact
> This means there MAY be two appearances on the final board list by the same director. Want your (hopefully sane) choice to be the one that factors into the final list? Campaign for it
> Lost first features may be substituted with the oldest surviving film of that director, but you absolutely must ask me specifically which film you want to be eligible to get a ruling in advance. I will throw out lists which skip this step

Another solid actor-in-their-directing-debut that I'll plug is James Caan's Hide in Plain Sight. And like Charles Laughton, it was also his last directing feature (so far, I suppose, but I feel confident it will stay that way).

Don’t forget Frailty as a great actor-director debut.

knives wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:07 pm Don’t forget Frailty as a great actor-director debut.

I mentioned it on the previous page, amongst other great actor-director debuts such as Michael Ian Black’s unfairly-maligned Wedding Daze and The Room

The Maltese Falcon (John Huston 1941)
I Shot Jesse James (Sam Fuller 1949)
Signs of Life (Werner Herzog 1968)
La Bataille du rail (René Clément (1946)
Marius (Marcel Pagnol 1931)
L'Assassin habite au 21 (Henri-Georges Clouzot 1942 - first as sole director)
Kapo (Gillo Pontecorvo 1960)
Ossessione (Luchino Visconti 1943)
Les Anges du péché (Robert Bresson 1943)
Medium Cool (Haskell Wexler 1969) (unless a documentary feature counts as the first feature)