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If that Reddit quote is accurate, then it must have been the recut that I saw here in Australia (a possible complication is that I saw it on 35mm, so it’s conceivable that it’s a different cut from the one playing on DCP in most other cinemas).

I saw it on DCP in Australia and the scene is in the film but I don't know if it is the re-cut version.

I saw the film on DCP with BBFC 18 certificate in front in a NYE preview screening, and yes the sex and the children were not in frame at the same time, which tallies with what the reddit user suggested. Wonder when the last time a Best Picture nominee had cuts made - this year we most probably have two such films!

I saw the film in the US on December 31st and the children were not in the same frame as the activity. I remember specifically paying attention b/c when the scene began I thought "this seems like something that could run afoul of some law somewhere" and then noticed that there were always cuts between the children and the adults in separate shots.

Literally booked tickets this morning and then learnt about the cuts. Would be cancelling and watching a non-cut version at some point, but it seems like the cuts may have been made early enough to have influenced the actual final cut distributed worldwide. Melonfarmers states:

UK: BBFC 18 rated for strong sex, nudity, very strong language for strong sex, nudity, very strong language after BBFC cuts:

+ 2024 Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures UK cinema release (rated 01/01/2024)

The BBFC commented:

We originally saw this film for advice. We informed the distributor we would be likely to classify the film 18 on condition that changes be made to one short sequence depicting sexual activity in the presence of children. This is in accordance with the Protection of Children Act 1978. When the distributor submitted the film for formal classification, the scene had been re-edited, and we were able to classify the film 18.

Thanks to Scott:

An employee of Disney's UK arm confirmed that the cuts were made months ago to an unfinished version of the film, with Lanthimos' consent, and the cut version is the definitive, being released worldwide.

The BBFC have the infiuence that former censorship boards could only dream of! I do wonder whether we will later see a different cut on non-UK streaming services and home video formats though.

WongKarWhy wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2024 6:32 pmI saw the film on DCP with BBFC 18 certificate in front in a NYE preview screening, and yes the sex and the children were not in frame at the same time, which tallies with what the reddit user suggested. Wonder when the last time a Best Picture nominee had cuts made - this year we most probably have two such films!

Is this the weird cut to The Holdovers, or are there actually three films?

TMDaines wrote:Literally booked tickets this morning and then learnt about the cuts. Will be cancelling and watching a non-cut version at some point.

It doesn’t sound like there were cuts, ie. scenes excised; it sounds like one scene was slightly reedited by the filmmakers. You should still see the movie.

Mr Sausage wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 1:55 pm

TMDaines wrote:Literally booked tickets this morning and then learnt about the cuts. Will be cancelling and watching a non-cut version at some point.

It doesn’t sound like there were cuts, ie. scenes excised; it sounds like one scene was slightly reedited by the filmmakers. You should still see the movie.

It's the opportunity cost, isn't it? If I can go the cinema and see either a uncensored film or a censored film, which I could watch uncensored at a later date, then I will always opt for the prior. Too many movies, too little time!

PfR73 wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 4:03 am I saw the film in the US on December 31st and the children were not in the same frame as the activity. I remember specifically paying attention b/c when the scene began I thought "this seems like something that could run afoul of some law somewhere" and then noticed that there were always cuts between the children and the adults in separate shots.

Yeah, I believe you're correct that there are already no frames where they are in the same shot together. So if the British version somehow retains the scene with some edits, I don't know what they would have changed. If the law forbids the mere suggestion of the two things being juxtaposed, then the whole scene would have to be excised

swo17 wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 2:06 pm

PfR73 wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 4:03 am I saw the film in the US on December 31st and the children were not in the same frame as the activity. I remember specifically paying attention b/c when the scene began I thought "this seems like something that could run afoul of some law somewhere" and then noticed that there were always cuts between the children and the adults in separate shots.

Yeah, I believe you're correct that there are already no frames where they are in the same shot together. So if the British version somehow retains the scene with some edits, I don't know what they would have changed. If the law forbids the mere suggestion of the two things being juxtaposed, then the whole scene would have to be excised

From what has been posted on Melonfarmers, it sounds like the BBFC reviewed an unfinished workprint, provided feedback, and this feedback was incorporated into the final cut, which is the same for cinemas globally. They then would have reviewed the final cut again for it final certification, but they still list the film has having been "cut", based on internal policy of cuts having been made since they first reviewed the material, despite the cuts having been done by the filmmakers voluntarily for the global release, rather than by the BBFC taking their scissors out.

How long ago they initially reviewed this, is the question? It may well be the case that the filmmakers engaged in voluntary self-censorship post-Venice, but they may well feel that the film wasn't finished at that point anyway, and always still subject to a re-edit.

So then is there any difference between the version playing in theaters in the US and UK? And will there ever be an opportunity to watch the film "uncensored" at a later date?

swo17 wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 2:29 pm So then is there any difference between the version playing in theaters in the US and UK? And will there ever be an opportunity to watch the film "uncensored" at a later date?

It sounds like there won't be. It seems that the same version has played in Australia and at the London Film Festival in October. Whether this same version played at Venice, I don't know.

I've tucked my tail between my legs and will trundle to the cinema on Monday...

Whether we later get another version, remains to be seen.

TMDaines wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 1:47 pm Is this the weird cut to The Holdovers, or are there actually three films?

Yes I was referring to that MPAA certificate Holdovers cut.

Having seen the film today and the edited scene in question, the BBFC’s demands make little sense considering I watched the same day Visconti’s Conversation Piece, which was certificated at 18 uncut whilst featuring a sex scene with a topless 15-year-old actress.

I note that nobody has yet mentioned the 1978 Protection of Children Act, which is of course pivotal here - the BBFC's hands were tied, and the distributor obviously didn't want to risk prosecution over material that could be legally interpreted as a recording of sexually explicit material involving children in the same shot (which I believe was how it was first presented) - and given that this is also the case internationally, it made sense to standardise it across the board.

I'm not the least bit fussed myself - it sounds as though the BBFC was very supportive and constructive given the immovable legal brick wall that they were up against. And I can attest from extensive first-hand experience that they don't ask for cuts in films by prestigious directors like Yorgos Lanthimos unless they genuinely think that there might be legal problems.

Incidentally, assuming we're thinking of the same scene in Conversation Piece, I don't really think it qualifies as a "sex scene", at least not for legal purposes. Most crucially, there's no visible onscreen sexual contact, either involving the teenager or between others in front of her in the same shot. (Mere embracing isn't enough to cause problems.)

Mr Sausage wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 6:31 pm
Good question about To the Devil a Daughter. Maybe because, while there are sexual overtones to it in the context of the story, Kinski is still doing nothing more than walking towards the camera, and not in a particularly sexual or tempting manner. That’s my best guess anyway.

As one critic once wrote of Cat People - "Kinski clothed is enough to drive you up the wall."

Having now seen Poor Things, I can confirm first-hand that this is a complete non-story.

There was a specific legal issue to do with the way that the scene was staged (namely, a shot combining underage actors and sexually graphic material that potentially infringed the 1978 Protection of Children Act even though they're not active participants), the BBFC advised the filmmakers of this, the scene was duly re-edited to remove the problem, and that's that - the dramatic content of the scene is unchanged. The problem could just as easily have been flagged up during production (and arguably should have been, as it's a UK co-production), and the chances are we wouldn't even be aware of it.

MichaelB wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 3:19 am Incidentally, assuming we're thinking of the same scene in Conversation Piece, I don't really think it qualifies as a "sex scene", at least not for legal purposes. Most crucially, there's no visible onscreen sexual contact, either involving the teenager or between others in front of her in the same shot. (Mere embracing isn't enough to cause problems.)

And before someone mentions To the Devil a Daughter, that doesn't qualify as a "sex scene" either, as there's no one else in the same shot as Nastassja Kinski's full-frontal (aged fourteen). Hence the fact that the BBFC have never cut it.

WongKarWhy wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 2:31 pm

TMDaines wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 1:47 pm Is this the weird cut to The Holdovers, or are there actually three films?

Yes I was referring to that MPAA certificate Holdovers cut.

I haven't seen the film yet, but I have heard that the MPAA rating has been replaced for the UK with a vintage blue AA certificate card. (There's a red X certificate card - complete with Lord Harlech and Stephen Murphy signatures - in Scala!!!, though it's during the opening credits rather than at the very start. Is this a trend?)

GaryC wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2024 2:29 pm

WongKarWhy wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 2:31 pm

TMDaines wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 1:47 pm Is this the weird cut to The Holdovers, or are there actually three films?

Yes I was referring to that MPAA certificate Holdovers cut.

I haven't seen the film yet, but I have heard that the MPAA rating has been replaced for the UK with a vintage blue AA certificate card. (There's a red X certificate card - complete with Lord Harlech and Stephen Murphy signatures - in Scala!!!, though it's during the opening credits rather than at the very start. Is this a trend?)

Yeah, showings of the film in the UK have started with the AA certificate - the change actually makes the film play better for UK audiences, I imagine

The film’s intimacy coordinator claims in a Guardian interview that the children were not on set when the shots depicting the sex were filmed:

The intimacy scenes between the boys’ father and Bella were shot without the child actors in the room, says McAlpine, making certain shots “quite difficult” – but they were approached with the same care, constant communication and strenuous attention to consent as the rest of the film.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2024/j ... -lanthimos

If that’s the case, I wonder how exactly the scene was altered. Maybe they originally composited the children into the same shot in post (or implied their presence with stand-ins), or it’s about something else entirely.

BD and DVD coming March 12. No surprise that there's no 4K release, as the film has no visuals to speak of

I saw that news on Twitter last night from Adam Yeend (of Pixelogic or something adjacent). He also said that All of Us Strangers is not getting a physical release of any kind! These are both (Disney-owned) Searchlight Pictures releases.

Getting very difficult these days to find a distributor who will guarantee both a theatrical release and a full physical media release.

Both Yorgos Lanthimos and Emma Stone have confirmed that there was only ever one version of the film, and that the BBFC story was blown up out of all proportion.

The changes to the brothel scene were made in post-production on legal advice obtained via the BBFC (and the mere fact that such advice was sought speaks volumes in itself about how keen they were not to cross that particular line!), and it's that version that was subsequently released everywhere.

MichaelB wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 3:59 pm Both Yorgos Lanthimos and Emma Stone have confirmed that there was only ever one version of the film, and that the BBFC story was blown up out of all proportion.

The changes to the brothel scene were made in post-production on legal advice obtained via the BBFC (and the mere fact that such advice was sought speaks volumes in itself about how keen they were not to cross that particular line!), and it's that version that was subsequently released everywhere.

Oh no! What terrible news for those people feeling hard done by that they were missing out on child abuse footage!