criterionforum.org

Scarface (1983) (Universal) added. Thanks to rrenault for the reminder.

If anyone catches any other omissions from the OP, let me know.

The Last Waltz (Criterion) added.

Angel Heart (Lionsgate), Raging Bull (Criterion) and The Virgin Suicides (Criterion) (some compression issues) added.

Finch wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:43 pm Scarface (1983) (Universal) added. Thanks to rrenault for the reminder.

If anyone catches any other omissions from the OP, let me know.

My UHD must be faulty. I thought it was full of compression issues. Things are moving that shouldn’t be moving. Like watching the movie through smoke, or something. Unless I’m supposed to make some kind of adjustment on my TV or player.

Finch wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:43 pm Scarface (1983) (Universal) added. Thanks to rrenault for the reminder.

If anyone catches any other omissions from the OP, let me know.

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is missing - I referenced it in another thread, haven't picked up the disc myself yet (but I'm going 4K starting tomorrow, so finally can more accurately contribute!)

Finch wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:43 pm If anyone catches any other omissions from the OP, let me know.

The Indiana Joneses/box set is not listed. I don't own it, so I wouldn't know where to place it, though.

the following added:

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (Sony) (early Sony title with very bright image) *

* did Sony reissue this one?

Indiana Jones set (Paramount)

Devil in a Blue Dress (Criterion) (if compared to the Indicator & TT BDs)
Devil in a Blue Dress (Criterion) (if compared to their 2022 BD)

Belle (All The Anime) (UK) added

Note that this is an ATA/Zavvi exclusive.

Finch wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:18 pm Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (Sony) (early Sony title with overblown highlights) *

* did Sony reissue this one?

Not yet.

Re overblown highlights, that's not the issue with this disc or Sony discs in particular. HDR is designed to ensure highlights are not overblown. The issue with Sony, especially these older discs, is the extreme range of HDR they use. This results in an overly luminous image, amped up grain, and difficulty for display devices to map the image. It's the latter that can result in overblown highlights, but they are not part of the master, it's just a failure of the display to deal with the source (and it can be mitigated/eliminated).

Amending CTHD entry, thanks.

Kurosawa’s Ran and Pan’s Labyrinth are also missing. Likewise Nolan’s films.

Also, I suppose there’s no harm in adding newer films like Parasite, Uncut Gems, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Phantom Thread, and so forth, but I’ll leave that up to Finch. However, I guess that opens up a frustrating Pandora’s box of “obviously we don’t need to list MCU fare but is Batman with Robert Pattinson “respectable” enough to be listed here? etc”.

I don't feel comfortable assigning Ran reference disc status because of the unfaithful-to-the-source color grading. I realise it's baked into the restoration and not a fault of the UHD disc but that still makes it a compromised product. I don't know if Studio Canal would let Criterion do a more accurate grade for the rumored UHD? I'd say probably not given that Le Circle Rouge was a straight port.

I need to do more research into Pan's Labyrinth.

If folks want superhero films listed, I can do so but my assumption for now is there isn't any interest in most of those, with the exception of possibly the Raimi Spidermans and the Burton Batmans..?

Keep requests coming for contemporary films.

Shouldn't it be "Spidermen" and "Batmen"? Might just be useful listing any films of that ilk that belong in the "Avoid" category for technical reasons

Finch wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:22 pm I don't feel comfortable assigning Ran reference disc status because of the unfaithful-to-the-source color grading. I realise it's baked into the restoration and not a fault of the UHD disc but that still makes it a compromised product. I don't know if Studio Canal would let Criterion do a more accurate grade for the rumored UHD? I'd say probably not given that Le Circle Rouge was a straight port.

I think your assessment of it is fair, very in line with that of Le Cercle Rouge. I do wonder if Criterion are able to do it (and I suspect they will, given that the Lionsgate release was limited and there hasn't been a standard one announced) whether they can correct the color grade. they worked directly with Shoji Ueda on Dreams and that blog post is an excellent read - if Canal could let them work with him and do their own master I think it would come out stunning. hopefully Ueda can help them with Kagemusha (please, Disney!) and Dreams, both of which I'd buy immediately

as for the superhero stuff - I think even people that like the new MCU films know they don't look particularly good on UHD...I read the 4K bluray reddit sometimes and there's a lot of dunking on those, even by fans due to how bad the CGI shows on UHD. they do very adamantly defend the Zack Snyder thing, for what it's worth

Yeah, if I'm honest, I'm questioning the need to list contemporary films unless the transfer has been botched in one way or another, and the disc therefore ends up in the bottom two categories, or if the film in question has received outstanding treatment (thinking Second Sight's edition of The Guest or possibly their upcoming Witch release).

That said, Uncut Gems (Criterion) should have been added earlier, and PTA is a forum darling, so Phantom Thread is in as well. Ditto Parasite.

Just a brief note: Parasite was released by Curzon/AE in the UK, and it seems each release has pros and cons vis a vis the other.

Finch wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:15 pm The Virgin Suicides[/color] (Criterion) (some compression issues) added.

Is there any way to get more detailed info about this? It's in the "appreciable upgrades" category, so does that mean even with the compression issues it still looks better than the Blu-ray?

Is the UHD release of Robot Carnival worth picking up?

It still looks better than the Blu-Ray. It's just not as well encoded as Criterion's best UHDs so it didn't feel right to add it as a reference disc. As Eddie said several pages back, even the discs in the "Disappointing" section still represent some improvement but whether it's worthwhile will be up to the individual. But anything listed in the top two columns is a safe buy.

I don't know about Robot Carnival. I'd have to see what I can find. Akira's UHDs all have DNR applied and only the expensive Japanese import has very good audio but the UHD still beats the PQ of the film's best Blu-Ray.

ryannichols7 wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:43 pm I think your assessment of it is fair, very in line with that of Le Cercle Rouge. I do wonder if Criterion are able to do it (and I suspect they will, given that the Lionsgate release was limited and there hasn't been a standard one announced) whether they can correct the color grade. they worked directly with Shoji Ueda on Dreams and that blog post is an excellent read - if Canal could let them work with him and do their own master I think it would come out stunning. hopefully Ueda can help them with Kagemusha (please, Disney!) and Dreams, both of which I'd buy immediately

The situation with Ran is complicated. Even though various people (including me) feel that the color grading overly reflects Eclair's in-house choices and doesn't match what they recall seeing in the theater, it was approved by Mr. Ueda himself. I ended up purchasing the UHD out of curiosity and found that that the same grading works slightly better in HDR than on Blu-ray due to the expanded color space. The difference is subtle, but personally I can live with the UHD presentation whereas I was unhappy with the Blu-ray. Others may find it worthwhile to upgrade too. I can't say that I would call it a reference disc, though, since there are plenty of UHD releases of older films that are more unambiguously successful.

There have been several restorations bearing a lab color signature despite a technical supervision, so this has become a moot point to me.

Discreet Charm?

I feel like Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie is at least a solid upgrade as the underlying restoration is very good but the colors are still a bone of contention. I know from davidhare's Facebook comments that he hates the grade but others have said they can live with it even if it is not ideal. So your mileage may vary. Adding it to the OP now.

Edit: to save you going back two pages, here is the comparison I came across.

Personally, I'd wait on a final call for Discreet Charm, since the word of mouth from blu-ray.com users seems quite positive, lack of DV aside. It's a tough call it seems. I have the disc myself but haven't watched it yet.

I guess it's one of those reference/solid cusp titles. I'd put The Matrix in this category, as well.

Finch wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:51 pm

That said, Uncut Gems (Criterion) should have been added earlier, and PTA is a forum darling, so Phantom Thread is in as well. Ditto Parasite.

I would like the Phantom Thread UHD, but is it worth paying 34 USD to import it to France. :-k I'm not sure...since it's a standard studio release with no extras.