criterionforum.org

Gary doesn't know what he's talking about here, so he's bringing up the quote to cover himself in case he missed what was cut.

I thought the point of DVDBeaver was to be first off the block with screencaps. I've certainly never relied on it for in-depth forensic analysis of the disc contents, and can't imagine why anyone would.

And even those screencaps aren't even accurate.

MichaelB wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:39 am I thought the point of DVDBeaver was to be first off the block with screencaps. I've certainly never relied on it for in-depth forensic analysis of the disc contents, and can't imagine why anyone would.

I suppose some use it for the nude pics...

Only in your fevered imagination, I suspect. Had the Beev been around in the 1950s, people starved for porn would have regarded it as manna from heaven, like that bloke quoted in David McGillivray's Doing Rude Things who travelled halfway across London to see a film where, it was rumoured,

Spoiler

you got a glimpse of a woman's nipple for a fraction of a second.

But now? Not so much.

I see my sense of humour is lost on you.

No, not at all - I just took your rather cheap and obvious gag and riffed on it, in the process perhaps paying more attention to it than it really deserved.

I just watched the Happy Together restoration next to the KIno. Good news is that there's no missing video footage!! I think the end credits are a bit longer. They're new with a bunch of colors. Bad news is there there are some missing lines of monologue.

Most notably in the scene when Tony Leung and Chang Chen hug. and say goodbye. In the Kino, Tony's inner monologue says "Was it because we had become close? When I held him all I could hear was my own heart beating. Did he hear it too?" On the Criterion, it's completely absent.

The other changes are minor. For example (spoken in Cantonese of course). These are from various scenes:

Kino "I'm not sure why, but that summer went by very fast"
Criterion "That summer went by very fast"

Kino "In the end I said I hoped he'd treat me as a friend"
Criterion "I hoped he'd treat me as a friend""

Kino "I feel like I'm waking up from a long sleep. I'm back on this side of the world."
Criterion "I'm back on this side of the world."

Otherwise, there's a little bit of timing changes with the monologues, but it's mostly negligible IMO.

Additionally, I think someone mentioned that some changes were made in the jump from theatrical to DVD or from DVD to BD. I noticed this difference from a DVD edition to the Kino BD. In the scene of Chang Chen looking for Tony Leung. So Chang Chen inner monologue:

Kino / Criterion: "I wanted to say goodbye to Fai but nobody knew where he was." end
DVD: "I wanted to say goodbye to Fai but nobody knew where he was. I thought I'd hear his voice. Maybe the music's too loud. I couldn't hear anything."

This adds so much more to the scene since it references a conversation he had with Fai (Tony) earlier.

Are these actual soundtrack changes, or the result of differing subtitle translations?

MichaelB wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:54 pm Are these actual soundtrack changes, or the result of differing subtitle translations?

The spoken audio (overdubbed monologue) is actually cut

At least the problem isn't that the subtitles are bordering on Godard's "Navajo" approach!

You've just given me flashbacks to watching Straub/Huillet's Class Relations, whose DVD - apparently at Danièle Huillet's personal insistence - gives you the absolute barest minimum translation in order to force you to listen to what's actually being said. It was by far the biggest workout my German has had since getting an O-level in 1983.

In a scene towards the end when Tony is writing a letter, the timing of his monologue is different. On the Kino, the lines are delivered in relatively quick succession. A Cantonese speak would have no trouble absorbing the words, but for those who have to read the subs it can be perhaps a little too quick. On the Criterion version, there's more space between the lines. It give us more time to read and absorb the words. It also gives the scene a more poetic and contemplative feeling. I'd say it's debatable that this specific change is acceptable.

MichaelB wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:30 pm No, not at all - I just took your rather cheap and obvious gag and riffed on it, in the process perhaps paying more attention to it than it really deserved.

Is this tone necessary? He made a couple one-line comments - the first an obvious but decidedly true observation about dvdbeaver, the other a not the least bit least bit vicious comeback towards you - and this is the response he gets?

Sternhalma Weinstein wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:02 pm

MichaelB wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:30 pm No, not at all - I just took your rather cheap and obvious gag and riffed on it, in the process perhaps paying more attention to it than it really deserved.

Is this tone necessary? He made a couple one-line comments - the first an obvious but decidedly true observation about dvdbeaver, the other a not the least bit least bit vicious comeback towards you - and this is the response he gets?

Don't worry, I'm used to it.

Not impressed by such rudeness, mind you.

I just compared the 2046 restoration to the Tartan DVD. Similar to the others, there's less contrast, but more clarity in many instances. More shadow detail. Sometimes the blacks look raised but not too often I think.

Often the colors are more naturalistic than the DVD. Oddly, instead of retaining the yellowish green from the DVD, much of the restoration's runtime has reduced it. It's funny (frustrating) because it's the opposite change than we saw in "In the Mood for Love". When the greens are pulled down in 2046, warmer hues take their place. There are a few exceptions to this though.

There are a few scenes that look virtually unaltered, which is good. But not enough of them are that way.

In the future train scenes, the reds and stronger and less orangey than the DVD. The white and blue highlights stand out more in these scenes since the green tint is reduced.

The end credits are pretty much the same on both versions.

In the CGI intro of the train in 2046 city, there are many neon signs. Strangely there are some areas of the signs and elsewhere in the frame that look to be purposefully blurred. I have no idea why they did that.

Tartan DVD (Left) vs Restoration (Right)

Spoiler

First it looks like this



A few frames later it looks like this

I'll try to post some more caps tonight after I get home from work.

cowboydan wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:20 pmI have no idea why they did that.

The most succinct review this set deserves.

sigh, Fallen Beaver

I cannot believe how easily Tooze acquiesces to the “new widescreen.” In a just world every reviewer would be outraged at these changes.

As I scrolled, I kept thinking "oh it's not so bad," until I realized I was comparing the Kino and AE and there was one more cap left in each section (shudder)

That sixth set of caps shows the new framing chopping off a character’s head entirely. Something tells me that *wasn’t* what Christopher Doyle intended.

The funniest part to me is "There seemed to be other subtle changes but I won't be the one to document them."

Very depressing to see people that are looked to as authorities of one stripe or another jumping on the bandwagon with this revisionist weirdness. Not to say that people on this site give DVDBeaver so much credence, but certainly people out there do respect Tooze's word on these things. When the Redux of Ashes of Time came out, people reacted pretty similarly. It seemed then that so many people had never seen a previous version of the film, but here's someone who has seen Fallen Angels quite a bit, and is allegedly charmed by this new way to view the film, with no skepticism whatsoever.

Seeing more images from this new version just underlines for me what a bad choice it is to make this the only version of this film in the set. It looks eye-gouging, jarring in the extreme, and I can't imagine watching 90s minutes of it with the feeling that the image is so demonstrably horizontally stretched. "Original intent" or not, it looks as uncomfortable an experience to me as all the strobing lights throughout Rise of Skywalker. And of course, the futzing around with color in b&w scenes and b&w in color scenes is all-around disappointing. And what a shame that Karen Mok's face gets cropped out of that shot with the re-colored TV.

dwk wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:53 am sigh, Fallen Beaver

The "original" Fallen Angels is one of my favorite films. I (and friends of mine) have cried at its beauty. But the new aspect ratio looks ... amazing! The feeling of distorted space, at least from these stills, seems thrillingly enhanced. Can't wait to see these "new" movies.

In Wong's defense, the super-wide look does like incredibly striking on first glance...but seeing it in every shot also feels too gimmicky, like it overwhelms any other aesthetic element at any given moment. Who knows, maybe I'll grow accustomed to it, but I really wish it was simply an alternate version, not the ONLY version from here on out.