200 Irréversible

Discuss Blu-rays released by Indicator and the films on them.

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soundchaser
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#76 Post by soundchaser » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:48 pm

senseabove wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:37 pm
I'm certainly happy to see y'all break the "rule," whether it was ever established internally, publicly stated, or just all in our heads. And to that point, I can't seem to find any mention from you of that rule being a rule, but a quick search of the speculation thread turns up lots of people mentioning it, so I have to imagine it was stated a little more clearly somewhere...
MichaelB, from Facebook, admittedly back before they released Ninety Degrees in the Shade:
As for non-English-language films, the current policy is to stick with exclusively English-language films, but never say never. As it happens, there's an upcoming Indicator title that will be presented in two distinctly different versions, one entirely in a foreign language, since it was an international co-production that was shot twice over with actors speaking the relevant version's language whenever possible (so we're talking visibly different takes, a more complex situation than a mere dub), and as luck would have it the licensing deal included the rights to both versions. But since the film is much better known in the English version (thanks to most of the leads and the scriptwriter being British), it's not quite the same thing.
So not necessarily a hard and fast rule, but certainly an implication. And I'm sure it wasn't the only one. I don't think it's unreasonable for us to raise an eyebrow about this.

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senseabove
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#77 Post by senseabove » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:03 pm

Nah, my point is that I'm raising both eyebrows at the possibilities. I'm fine with Indicator "diluting the brand" of comprehensive, obscure releases that we love them for by expanding to comprehensive, obscure non-English releases.

I still want a *@$&^#! "Sirk at Universal" box, though.

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mizo
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#78 Post by mizo » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:05 pm

swo17 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:48 pm
Broken record: Please use the mad money this brings to fund boxes of Deville, Chabrol, Ruiz, and Mouret
I have nothing to add to this but YES YES YES PLEASE [-o<

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knives
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#79 Post by knives » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:12 pm

swo17 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:48 pm
Broken record: Please use the mad money this brings to fund boxes of Deville, Chabrol, Ruiz, and Mouret
Chabrol was literally the first thought that passed my mind. Somebody please give me The Hatter’s Ghost.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#80 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:28 pm

swo17 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:48 pm
Broken record: Please use the mad money this brings to fund boxes of Deville, Chabrol, Ruiz, and Mouret
Hell, if this gives enough to grease the wheels for whatever muscle is holding up California Split, it's a win

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andyli
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#81 Post by andyli » Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:50 am

Did the German release from last month (compared here) use the same 4K restoration? Looking at the screenshots I couldn't believe it's a new 4K scan. There's practically no improvements on previous transfers.

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Adam X
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#82 Post by Adam X » Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:06 am

senseabove wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:35 pm
swo17 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:03 pm
2. I hope Indicator realizes that this decision to release a foreign language film is...something they can't go back on
I'm strangely encouraged by how repeatedly unacknowledged this question is here and elsewhere...
It was mentioned in the Indicator podcast interview released late last year that they've decided to start branching out into non-English language films.

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MichaelB
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#83 Post by MichaelB » Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:22 am

andyli wrote:Did the German release from last month (compared here) use the same 4K restoration? Looking at the screenshots I couldn't believe it's a new 4K scan. There's practically no improvements on previous transfers.
I haven’t seen either the German release or the master that Indicator will be using, but bear in mind that this film was shot on Super 16, so there’s an absolute upper limit to the amount of detail that can be extracted from this material.

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andyli
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#84 Post by andyli » Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:35 am

Fair point. At least I can trust Indicator to have rendered the grains better than appeared in those German screenshots.

mhofmann
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#85 Post by mhofmann » Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:19 am

MichaelB wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:22 am
andyli wrote:Did the German release from last month (compared here) use the same 4K restoration? Looking at the screenshots I couldn't believe it's a new 4K scan. There's practically no improvements on previous transfers.
I haven’t seen either the German release or the master that Indicator will be using, but bear in mind that this film was shot on Super 16, so there’s an absolute upper limit to the amount of detail that can be extracted from this material.
True, but I have a pretty good feeling what Super 16 grain might look like... and whatever the German/French release has delivered unfortunately doesn't look like it. Instead it looks harshly digital, with clumpy, processed approximations of what once was grain.

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yoloswegmaster
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#86 Post by yoloswegmaster » Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:04 am

Someone on the blu forum emailed Indicator about the transfer, and apparently there is no 4K restoration for it and it seems like they will use the same transfer from past releases.

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tenia
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#87 Post by tenia » Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:15 pm

I regret not seeing the re-release in theater to have gauged what was shown there but the comparisons I saw indeed look like the original cut is pretty much the same old source and that the new cut is using the same digital master as a source since they all are sharing the same "pixels", which seems unlikely if the workflow went back to the film elements.

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MichaelB
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#88 Post by MichaelB » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:23 am

Update from Powerhouse:
As you may be aware, during the past month or so there have been some problems with the Amazon listing for our forthcoming IRREVERSIBLE Limited Edition. We're extremely pleased to announce that these issues have now been completely resolved.

Additionally, some news on the restoration: following conversations with Gaspar Noé and Studiocanal, we have confirmation that the feature presentation is not from a 4K restoration, as was previously announced, but rather a 2K one. The film was originally post-produced at 2K (meaning a true 4K version will never be possible). The restorations of both cuts of the film were prepared in 2019, with Noé himself overseeing all aspects.

Final specs for IRREVERSIBLE will be announced very soon, including a number of exciting new additions. We are extremely proud of the work that has gone into making this release as good as it possibly can be, and we can't wait for you to see the results.

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MichaelB
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#89 Post by MichaelB » Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:01 pm

Final specs:

Image

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MichaelB
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#90 Post by MichaelB » Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:12 am


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Re: 200 Irréversible

#91 Post by MichaelB » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:38 pm


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Finch
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#92 Post by Finch » Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:50 pm

The reds really pop in the subway scene. Regardless of my disdain for the film, this looks pretty impressive.

mhofmann
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#93 Post by mhofmann » Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:55 pm

The reviews seem to tiptoe around it, but I still think the transfer looks absolutely terrible compared to what would be possible with a halfway decent scan of a film of that vintage. Oh well, seems we're not getting anything better.

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Finch
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#94 Post by Finch » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:04 pm

Wasn't this shot on Super 16mm? Would a 4k scan really have made a discernible difference (the fact that Indicator didn't commission a 4k scan seems to suggest it wouldn't have, or it was outside of what they could realistically afford)?

Edit: nevermind, Michael addressed this actually a few posts above.
Last edited by Finch on Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tenia
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#95 Post by tenia » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:05 pm

Michael's technical reasoning seems a plausible explanation about what happened there : basically, the film is stuck to its 2002 scan and digital post-production and something better than this is unlikely to appear except going back to the 16mm elements, re-scanning them and re-doing the whole post production (which is unlikely to happen).

Come to think about it, I guess it's just a movie from this intermediate HD-finish era in ths 2000s, where the industry was moving into digital post production but a technically limited one.

But yes, otherwise, a new scan would certainly have yielded a finer result, even simply at 2k. There are now several 16mm restorations showing how beautiful it can look once newly and properly restored.
(NB : the "restoration" work was done by/for Studio Canal, I don't think there's anything Powerhouse could have done there)

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MichaelB
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Re: 200 Irréversible

#96 Post by MichaelB » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:15 pm

mhofmann wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:55 pm
The reviews seem to tiptoe around it, but I still think the transfer looks absolutely terrible compared to what would be possible with a halfway decent scan of a film of that vintage. Oh well, seems we're not getting anything better.
Talking about "a film of that vintage" is pretty meaningless in this context, because in terms of source medium Irréversible isn't really a "film" as such - or rather, while it was originally shot on Super 16mm, the entire post-production workflow was carried out digitally at 2K, using twenty-year-old technology and algorithms, and all subsequent release versions (35mm, DVD, BD, you name it) ultimately came from the same digital interpositive. So in terms of the Indicator catalogue, the only really viable comparator is something like The Pillow Book, which also betrays the limitations of the technology on which the post-production was carried out, and which also cannot be measurably improved without essentially reassembling the entire film from scratch.
tenia wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:05 pm
But yes, otherwise, a new scan would certainly have yielded a finer result, even simply at 2k.
A new scan of what, though? Even if the original 16mm rushes survive, which is by no means a given, you'd have to redo the entire post-production, including re-rendering all the special effects (which include the seamless digital stitching-together of dozens of shots to create the impression of only a handful of very long ones). With the best will in the world, that simply isn't going to happen, any more than it's going to happen with The Pillow Book - if it was a viable option, Noé would undoubtedly have taken it in 2019.

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