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1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 4:40 pm
by domino harvey
TK

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 4:40 pm
by domino harvey
Stunned they chose this over the other MIA Chaplins (A King in New York and Chaplin Revue)

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 4:48 pm
by yoloswegmaster
Not too much of a shock considering they were touring the new restoration last year. I'm just surprised they didn't release this on 4K.

Also, can someone correct me if I'm wrong but the reason why we aren't see the original version is because of Chaplin's Estate?

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 5:23 pm
by domino harvey
Is this the first disc appearance of this film to not pair it with A King in New York? I expected sister releases at any rate

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 7:16 pm
by GaryC
domino harvey wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 5:23 pm Is this the first disc appearance of this film to not pair it with A King in New York? I expected sister releases at any rate
The Curzon Artificial Eye Blus of 2015 were separate releases.

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 9:54 pm
by Peacock
What a terrible announcement. Criterion bravely put out the original Gold Rush (albeit listed as an extra) on Blu but couldn’t be bothered fighting to put the original version of The Woman of Paris out, by far the best Chaplin awaiting a Region A Blu.

Looks like if you were waiting for the Criterion you should instead get the 2023 French Blu which includes both versions of the film and some of the same extras.

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 10:07 pm
by TechnicolorAcid
If it helps Criterion does have the removed 1923 scenes included in the extras and the key difference is that 2 versions of The Gold Rush are radically different, especially in regards to the fact that the 1942 version becomes a sound film so logically it makes sense to have both versions on that disc. Of course, I haven’t seen either version so perhaps the 1976 cut is completely different in how the story plays out compared to the original 1923 cut.

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 6:03 am
by ryannichols7
they set that precedent with The Kid but if the French disc includes it, hmm..

like TA I haven't seen this one yet so can't speak to it. I know Chaplin was notoriously revisionist, sometimes it wasn't too bad (The Circus and The Kid) but The Gold Rush was for sure most impacted

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 6:08 am
by Saturnome
I'm sure A Woman of Paris was tinted, too.

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2024 6:02 pm
by yoloswegmaster
I emailed Criterion about the 1923 version not being included, and they responded with this:
The 1923 version was taken out of circulation by Chaplin not long after its initial release. He revisited the film in 1976 (as he did with several of his earlier works around that time), removed some shots, and composed a new score. That new version, which is what the 4K restoration master represents, was considered the official version by Chaplin. His preference continues to be honored by the Chaplin Estate, and therefore, we are only able to include the deleted shots from the 1923 version, and not the entire film.
It sounds like the Chaplin estate controls what is released in the U.S. but not around the world.

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2024 6:34 pm
by Red Screamer
If I remember correctly, the changes he made outside of the score were somewhat minor (including perhaps making Chaplin's cameo slightly shorter?), but I guess we will see the exact cuts when the edition comes out.

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:28 pm
by Stefan Andersson
Discussion of versions released, frame rate differences and more:
https://www.nitrateville.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36688

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:42 pm
by yoloswegmaster
So this French release doesn't actually contain the original version?

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 8:13 pm
by Red Screamer
Yeah, their discussion is confusing as well. I saw the new restoration theatrically and it does include Chaplin’s cameo as the porter, for example, I just thought the original cut had a longer version of it. But maybe not.

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 8:33 pm
by Stefan Andersson
I haven´t seen the French disc myself.

A Dec. 23 post (+ followup comment) on Nitrateville seems clearly worded:

"Word is that the French disc does not include the uncut version of the film, just two different encodings of the cut version, one of them at a slower frame rate.
That's exactly it: the version restored in 2019 was transfered in a simulation of 22 fps (one frame out of 11 is repeated), and it's still the same exact cut as the 1977 version."

More details re; French release, in several posts by kishiro and others here:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.ph ... 978&page=2

Especially relevant quote:
"the Image DVD of A King in New York / A Woman of Paris is uncut for both films." Haven´t seen these either myself.

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:43 pm
by domino harvey
Image’s A King in New York is LESS cut than any other home video release (by about ten minutes or so, I think?), but it still has a good selection of deleted material (included from the original cut on the disc)

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2025 11:33 pm
by CSM126

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2025 10:07 pm
by Never Cursed
While Chaplin clearly put a lot of effort into reshaping his usual approach to fit his chosen material, I unfortunately don't think this film would warrant much attention at all were it not for his involvement. A lot of ink has been spilled, both at the time of the film's release and in more recent decades, in an attempt to recast the film as a headier, more psychologically complex Chaplin work, but these reclamations don't make much sense in the context of the film's release, when it surely would have played as an expensive but ultimately undistinguished melodrama of an urban woman torn between two men. Chaplin does not have the deft touch required to underline the ambivalent and dour approaches of his characters towards matrimony and familial cohesion, and so over and over again he signposts things for his audience (Menjou's attitude towards his marriage, Purviance and Menjou observing the family outside her window, Carl Miller and his gun) that a more confident filmmaker would not feel the need to overemphasize. I am also surprised that the defenses of the film trend towards how serious it is when it contains several full-bore comic segments, all well-constructed but rhetorically misplaced and a bit too goofy. Menjou is the only on-screen player that seems to understand how to balance Chaplin's various approaches - he walks away with one of those comic segments - and he basically steals the show from the two ostensible co-leads, who hardly register. I don't think they, or Chaplin, were ever destined for dramatic super-stardom.

And about the disc itself: the two different scores for the film were made for two different framerates, so there are separate files for each one on the disc. The video content for each one is, far as I can tell, identical save for the framerates.

The deleted shots are included in a program that runs about 14 minutes and which splits them into ten segments. They can be briefly summarized as follows:
Spoiler
1. An extra intertitle spelling out the themes of the film at its start, following the credits.
2. After Purviance's father locks the front door in anticipation of her return, we get a close-up of a portrait of a woman hanging on the wall, presumably Purviance's deceased mother.
3. In Jean/Carl Miller's father's death scene, there is some additional material of Jean hesitating and speaking to his father in the armchair, before he notices that his father has dropped his pipe onto the ground (and thus died). Jean's mother sits down.
4. In Pierre/Adolph Menjou's introduction, just before the intertitle introducing the character, there is a brief shot of the "sheik" character turning his head to look at where Menjou has entered the restaurant.
5. Immediately following the above, just after the intertitle re-introducing Purviance, the "sheik" turns to look at her as she passes by.
6. A bit later in the same scene, just after the "champagne truffles" intertitles, there is one additional shot of the chef cooking the truffles and one additional shot of Purviance and Menjou joking with each other while seated at their table.
7. Much later in the film, immediately the sequence when Jean is spying on Purviance and Menjou's phone conversation, there is an additional short montage. Jean's mother cleans their shared apartment, looks forlornly at his son's bed, and then lights a candle, which slowly dwindles as time passes before Jean's return (which is near-immediate in the 1976 version). Jean crosses a bridge, appearing haunted. Jean's mother and Purviance sleep in their beds, while Menjou reads a popular magazine in his.
8. In the material establishing the party, attended by Purviance and Menjou, that Jean will later commit suicide outside, there is an additional shot of Purviance and Menjou making their way through the energetic crowd, just before the shot of the party with the two balloon-carrying women flying suspended on ropes.
9. Once Jean's mother has returned home to discover Purviance mourning over Jean's body, and once the mother has left her gun on the table, there is an additional shot of Purviance and the mother mourning together over Jean's body, and the mother moving her hand over Jean to clasp Purviance's.
10. In the following scene, where Purviance and Jean's mother are taking care of children, there is one additional shot of a kid cleaning his ear out with a towel, and a matching shot of Purviance chastizing him for doing so.
In summary, the deletions are relatively minimal and intended to make the film run just a bit faster. I would maybe have left the seventh and ninth sections in the film if I were cutting/recutting it, but the film is not harmed by their absence. There is also no additional material of Chaplin's cameo as a porter early on in the film.

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 1:30 pm
by felipe
I can't believe it's 2025 and Criterion still hasn't released all the Chaplins on blu-ray.

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 1:46 pm
by andyli
Yes. The slow pacing has devolved into a travesty (or the ouroboros?!). No restoration project should take this long. So much so that the earliest output (The Great Dictator, The Gold Rush, etc.) can already use a second restoration now. Not to mention it's Chaplin, who only made ten feature films.

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 7:10 pm
by felipe
andyli wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 1:46 pm Yes. The slow pacing has devolved into a travesty (or the ouroboros?!). No restoration project should take this long. So much so that the earliest output (The Great Dictator, The Gold Rush, etc.) can already use a second restoration now. Not to mention it's Chaplin, who only made ten feature films.
That's true. Those titles were released almost 15 years ago.

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 12:20 pm
by tenia
This is just symptomatic of one of Criterion's physical releases' worst aspects, which is that they have the rights of way more things they can release at their monthly pace, but they're refusing to compensate this by trying and issue more boxsets. The same happened with the Harold Lloyd movies, of which they were supposed to do a boxset 10 years ago. At some point, it feels like this is some kind of "Criterion hell", like a development hell, but they're also actively preventing these movies to see a physical release because in this meantime, another label could have bought the rights instead and release those.

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 10:27 pm
by felipe
tenia wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 12:20 pm This is just symptomatic of one of Criterion's physical releases' worst aspects, which is that they have the rights of way more things they can release at their monthly pace, but they're refusing to compensate this by trying and issue more boxsets. The same happened with the Harold Lloyd movies, of which they were supposed to do a boxset 10 years ago. At some point, it feels like this is some kind of "Criterion hell", like a development hell, but they're also actively preventing these movies to see a physical release because in this meantime, another label could have bought the rights instead and release those.
That's true. Even more so now that it's been confirmed Criterion has been sitting on some of Warner's biggest silent films.

Re: 1253 A Woman of Paris

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 7:55 am
by hearthesilence
I didn't bother reading much about this, not even the plot, and took it on good faith that it was worth seeing, and indeed it was - I thought this was really good. I don't want to make too much out of it because Chaplin's better-known masterpieces deservingly have that reputation - they're towering achievements and it's uncharitable to fault an outlier if it doesn't meet those lofty standards. But I thought this amply shows Chaplin's talents as a filmmaker and how easily he applies them to dramatic work.

I think the way he draws out painful and buried feelings between two former lovers is exceptionally done and even the title cards set it up eloquently. But even before that and then afterwards (where much of the story is told), he does an excellent job of depicting insecurity and weakening faith in the reciprocated feelings of the other partner - these moments have remarkable subtlety that highlight Edna Purviance's talents as a performer. You know how there's that famous quote from Chaplin that says "life is a tragedy when seen in close-up, but a comedy in long-shot"? That may be the starting point of how he composes a scene, but he's smart enough never to make that a doctrinal rule, and there are moments where he keeps the camera at a distance when something raw emerges. (He ends one shot this way, letting it fade to black as the character begins to tremble rather than cutting to a closer shot.)

The romantic elements are especially impactful because they're rooted in his criticism against the social mores of the time, and these aren't attitudes that have disappeared into the past - even a decade ago when it felt like the culture was really opening up and pushing further away from backward evangelical puritanism, it wouldn't have been hard for me to find someone back home who was living under these pressures. How the dynamics scar and warp people is sharply portrayed - there may be a generation gap, but it's very difficult for a child to completely free themselves from that kind of damage even in adulthood, and that really plays out with Jean. Beyond that, I thought the ending was beautiful - bittersweet and perfect in its own way.

I was dreading the cuts as well, but I agree with the above - they don't feel like major changes at all. If I really had to rate them, I'd say most of them feel like subtle improvements and I wouldn't call the rest of them wrong either - they're more than understandable as artistic choices.