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TK

Second Warner Archive Blu to get upgraded by the label, guess this is where we are now

This is a wonderful movie with a brilliant plot, but new viewers should be warned (or maybe not, maybe they wouldn't give a shit, or just not agree with me) that the dialogue is second-rate, just generally pretty lame, and all of the performances, except Hackman and a wonderful force-of-nature turn by Melanie Griffith as an archetypal troubled teen, are pretty terrible. But don't be put off by that, stick with this film! The actress who play's Griffith's mother, Janet Ward, is especially bad. Penn was a wonderful director, but he often had questionable taste in the material he chose to direct. I've never seen a Penn film, other than maybe The Miracle Worker, whose material I don't take with at least one or two grains of salt. He's kind of like Alain Resnais in that regard (not saying he's as talented as Resnais). This is still one of his best films tho, and willya look at that! A decent package from Criterion!

They recorded an actual, honest to god new commentary.

This is a surprisingly strong package for this label these days, but unfortunately I think this movie falls victim to the common overcorrection of studio fare in this decade into outright aimlessness and indulgence. Hackman’s character insults Eric Rohmer though, so there’s that

WAC Transfer:



Criterion Transfer:

By aimlessness and indulgence, do you just mean the general air of patheticism amongst the characters (esp. Hackman)? If you don't, I'm not sure I would agree--personally, I found the plotting at the very least to be quite surefooted and involving, masterful even, and not aimless at all.

I'm not as big a fan of this as some, find some of its inconsistencies work and some of them just inconsistent (I'd agree the dialogue's overwritten, though there are gems...)

a favorite exchange

"Who's winning?"
"Nobody. One side's just losing slower than the other."

but I'm glad they have a new feature with Jennifer Warren, The way she casually leans into Florida-weirdness like no one else in the cast makes her scenes wonderful wild cards.

Yah, the dialogue is just generally schmucky-second-rate-genre-novel-esque, to the point of ludicrousness, with (mostly) performances to match. What a gallery of losers in this film! I don't really care about any of that though, I still love it.

What A Disgrace wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 4:57 pm They recorded an actual, honest to god new commentary.

They did on Godzilla vs Biollante too. First time in awhile I can remember getting two new ones, especially for titles that are relatively recent vintage.

I love this one without caveat. Every time I watch it it just defeats me.

domino harvey wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 5:19 pm Hackman’s character insults Eric Rohmer though, so there’s that

Spoiler

I saw this film a long time ago when I knew next to nothing about movies, so I'm eager to revisit it. In the interim I've taken quite a liking to the screenwriter Alan Sharp for films like Ulzana's Raid, The Last Run, and The Hired Hand; I've never found his dialog to be poor, and I trust Gear's commentary will touch on his contributions to this era of Hollywood along with the obligatory discussion of the fraught relationship between him and Penn on the film.

And here's an amusing anecdote I have jotted down about this film, which depending on your point of view may point to the "aimlessness" domino mentions, courtesy of Kent Jones:

Kent Jones wrote:A funny story. Last summer I met Harris Yulin at a party. He told me that when he arrived on the set of NIGHT MOVES, he found that his scene had been re-written, and he didn’t care for the re-write. This being the 70s, the crew waited as he, Penn and Gene Hackman sat for an hour and half and talked it over. Finally, he said, “Arthur, you’re the director, what you say goes,” and Penn went to look at the set-up. Yulin asked Hackman: “Gene, what do you think?” Hackman said, “I don’t know…sometimes you just have to trust it.” Yulin thought about it and said, “Trust what, Gene?” Hackman thought it over and answered, “I don’t know.”

I like how they got a Jennifer Warren interview. I saw her discuss a film a while back. She’s been a professor at USC for many years

brundlefly wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 5:29 pm I'm not as big a fan of this as some, find some of its inconsistencies work and some of them just inconsistent (I'd agree the dialogue's overwritten, though there are gems...)

a favorite exchange

"Who's winning?"
"Nobody. One side's just losing slower than the other."

Although in this case those lines were an update from ‘Out of the Past’!

domino harvey wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 4:42 pm Second Warner Archive Blu to get upgraded by the label, guess this is where we are now

Bring on Body Snatchers and Demon Seed (which went from pressed DVD to Archive DVD and finally Archive Blu)

Cash Flagg wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 6:55 pm

brundlefly wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 5:29 pm I'm not as big a fan of this as some, find some of its inconsistencies work and some of them just inconsistent (I'd agree the dialogue's overwritten, though there are gems...)

a favorite exchange

"Who's winning?"
"Nobody. One side's just losing slower than the other."

Although in this case those lines were an update from ‘Out of the Past’!

Yes! Though maybe it''s more dry quip there, existential here? Also I don't gamble but am a football fan whose team has suffered its share of long slumps and ugly outings, so I've had better chance to repurpose it.

In the novelization (by Sharp himself) and the draft script (when it was called The Dark Tower), the watching paint dry line is about Chabrol and not Rohmer.

My copy of the novelization has a Kent cigarettes advert bound right into the middle.

yoloswegmaster wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 5:28 pm WAC Transfer:



Criterion Transfer:

There's also a clip from a different scene on Criterion's website that backs up this new color timing.

I've seen this projected in 35mm and I honestly don't remember it looking like this. To be fair, it's been YEARS, and I didn't think to compare it to the Warner Archive Blu-ray afterwards because nothing seemed suspect, but that alone suggests something - the Warner Blu-ray doesn't immediately seem off the way this does.

I like the movie, but somewhat mildly, so I'll pass.

hearthesilence wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 8:13 pm

yoloswegmaster wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 5:28 pm WAC Transfer:



Criterion Transfer:

There's also a clip from a different scene on Criterion's website that backs up this new color timing.

I've seen this projected in 35mm and I honestly don't remember it looking like this. To be fair, it's been YEARS, and I didn't think to compare it to the Warner Archive Blu-ray afterwards because nothing seemed suspect, but that alone suggests something - the Warner Blu-ray doesn't immediately seem off the way this does.

I like the movie, but somewhat mildly, so I'll pass.

I’ve seen it in celluloid as well. The bottom screenshot absolutely seems off

The WAC blu just looks overly red/pink to my eyes.

yoloswegmaster wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 9:37 pm The WAC blu just looks overly red/pink to my eyes.

It does, so a new grading would be welcome...but what Criterion has isn't it.

The top looks like a US tv show from the 80s, the bottom looks like a European film from the 70s. Is Ritrovata involved?

I rewatched it today. Judging by her body build, the diver was Melanie's stunt double?

I emailed Criterion about the color timing and received this response:

we used a Technicolor IB print (from the time of release) for color reference that was held at Warner Bros. We scanned the original negative, and color timed the movie to closely match the print. We feel that this master most closely resembles the original timing of the movie than anything else done to date.

The cap of the WAC grading look very saturated and pinkish like those video magenta-pushed masters. Not sure how accurate the Criterion is, but on an absolute scale, I do wonder what Warner were referencing for their master.