421 Pierrot le fou

[TMDaines]

No green tint!

[hearthesilence]

If the green tint is actually wrong, it's a hell of a mistake to make, isn't it? Maybe there's something about the production history to make it understandable, but even the excuse that they accidentally tinted the wrong shot in the wrong color would feel ridiculous. Imagine buying a red or blue car and finding out the windows were painted emerald green.

[tenia]

It looks like the new Criterion disc is just using the Studio Canal Collection transfer.

It might be replicating some tints or lack thereof, but it's not the existing SC transfer, it's a new 4k restoration.

[PfR73]

I don't think that's true. Criterion doesn't even state it's a 4K restoration. They state "New 2K digital restoration", and the SC transfer was a 2K restoration according to the Studio Canal Collection disc. If you open up any pair of screenshots from DVDBeaver for the Studio Canal Collection disc and new Criterion disc and toggle between them, they are exactly the same. Seems like Criterion is just using the word "new" because they have not used the transfer before.

[domino harvey]

I was going to say, they look exactly the same

[jsteffe]

Beaver

So it looks like there's a "day for night" effect that's been reinstated in at least one shot. I wish StudioCanal or Criterion had some kind of note discussing these things (like the green tinting), it's quite confusing as to what's correct.

I think it's telling that the old Fox Lorber DVD contains the same day-for-night effect and lack of green tinting that the StudioCanal restoration has. This leads me to suspect that there are some discrepancies among the archival film elements (prints, interpositives, etc.), and that both the Fox Lorber and Studio Canal were using/referencing the same source. Ultimately there may not be a clear answer one way or another about these choices, although Coutard did approve the older Criterion release. That's what I have, and I"m keeping it.

[tenia]

Wow my bad. I was so convinced there was a new 4k resto for Pierrot I didnt double check. I guess I mixed it up with Breathless.

[modernmalaise]

Well that's probably because it's mentioned two pages back, that there was a 4K restoration (the link is dead however). I assumed that's what we'd get but it seems not to be the case.

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

The page is archived, but I'm pretty sure it was an error. AFAICT none of the other venues that played the Rialto re-release billed it as a 4K restoration (and neither did Rialto themselves, for that matter).

[TMDaines]

So after the old Pierrot disc was going for silly money as people were believing it was superior visually to the SC disc, Criterion have now just released the SC transfer?

[modernmalaise]

That begs a good question- is it possible that Criterion will no longer be replacing the bronzing discs from the original printed release once this drops? This might be a good time for those with the OOP Pierrot le Fou to get replacement discs proactively, just in case this new transfer does suck and becomes the only option...

We'd be glad to send you the original edition of PIERROT LE FOU as a replacement for your defective copy...

Please note that we are taking precautions to help delay the spread of COVID-19 Virus and our staff are now working remotely. This means that if a disc is sent in, a replacement may not be processed for at least the next month or possibly longer. If you would prefer to wait and send in your discs at a later date, we will still honor the exchange.

[therewillbeblus]

Awesome, that's great news!

[bugsy_pal]

So after the old Pierrot disc was going for silly money as people were believing it was superior visually to the SC disc, Criterion have now just released the SC transfer?

That seems to be the situation. I think the Caps-a-Holic captures (along with Beaver captures referred to elsewhere) pretty much confirm that the new Criterion uses the same 'transfer' as the Studio Canal from 10 years ago, with a tiny fraction more grain left in. To say it's a new transfer is misleading - it's probably a new encoding - or I suppose they could argue that it's 'newer' than the old Criterion transfer.

I think the new Criterion doesn't look like a fresh transfer - some of the grain is a bit heavy and weird looking. I'm sure a new 4K transfer would sort that out.

[cowboydan]

So after the old Pierrot disc was going for silly money as people were believing it was superior visually to the SC disc, Criterion have now just released the SC transfer?

That seems to be the situation. I think the Caps-a-Holic captures (along with Beaver captures referred to elsewhere) pretty much confirm that the new Criterion uses the same 'transfer' as the Studio Canal from 10 years ago, with a tiny fraction more grain left in. To say it's a new transfer is misleading - it's probably a new encoding - or I suppose they could argue that it's 'newer' than the old Criterion transfer.

I think the new Criterion doesn't look like a fresh transfer - some of the grain is a bit heavy and weird looking. I'm sure a new 4K transfer would sort that out.

The new Criterion is definitely just a new encode of the same transfer as the SC. I think that part of the reason that the grain looks weird is because it's actually scanned from an interpositive rather than an original negative. Supposedly the OCN has been gone/destroyed decades ago.

One big thing that the new Criterion has over the SC is the better, more detailed subtitles.

[tenia]

The grain looking weird probably also has to do with how old the master is and, usually, which type of scanner was used then for the scan.

[skilar]

Sounds like there will be a second pressing that restores the green tint to the Fuller shot. Guess the version on the Channel already has it.

[dwk]

That is good to hear. Now they have to repress The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum using the 4k master.

[therewillbeblus]

Sounds like there will be a second pressing that restores the green tint to the Fuller shot. Guess the version on the Channel already has it.

Huh, I wonder if they're also going to reverse any other changes (the day-for-night shot) or just the tint

[hearthesilence]

Sounds like there will be a second pressing that restores the green tint to the Fuller shot. Guess the version on the Channel already has it.

Huh, I wonder if they're also going to reverse any other changes (the day-for-night shot) or just the tint

I'm not sure if this would do anything, but maybe it's worth emailing and telling them that? I mean, if they're not too deep in the process, they may be open to checking since they're already grading it again.

(I'd do it myself, but I wouldn't know the specifics well enough to confidently guide them through it.)

[andyli]

Instead of going back and forth in this petty manner while creating more confusion, how about footing the bill for a 4K fucking restoration once and for all, dear Criterion and Studio Canal?

[omegadirective]

Aside from this and Montery Pop, how many titles has criterion reissued on blu ray with a different transfer from the first blu ray?

[Blutarsky]

Aside from this and Montery Pop, how many titles has criterion reissued on blu ray with a different transfer from the first blu ray?

Aside from the aforementioned titles, the ones I could think of right now that have a different restoration than the first release are:
- Amarcord (different restoration in Essential Fellini)
- The Seventh Seal (4K Resto in Ingmar Bergman’s Cinema)
- 8 1/2 (4K Restoration in Essential Fellini)
- In The Mood for Love (Ritrovatad and ruined by Wai)
- Chungking Express (not ruined but altered by Wai enough)

[domino harvey]

Cries and Whispers and Autumn Sonata are different transfers too in the Bergman box

[therewillbeblus]

I held onto my Amarcord though I don't recall how noticeable the transfer differences are, but Autumn Sonata sticks out as the most drastic and unflattering coloring alteration and it's worth keeping the original release if you have it

[swo17]

Also Play Time