Federico Fellini

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planetjake · #76 Post by **planetjake** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:56 am

tavernier wrote:I saw Voices of the Moon at Film Forum in NYC in the early/mid 90s at a Fellini retro

I have the Italian disc and recommend it highly: even if you don't speak Italian (which I don't), you won't lose much. I don't know if there are any extensive synopses of the film out there, which would help keep track of the characters. (I haven't watched it in a while, so I wouldn't be of much help there.)

I am actually in the process of learning Italian at the moment. I'm preparing to write my thesis and also saving up for a trip to Cinecitta, so knowledge of the language won't hurt me any... I think I'll pick up the disc... Thanks for the rec.

Antoine Doinel · #77 Post by **Antoine Doinel** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:49 pm

So I caught a screening of Ginger And Fred last weekend. Previously, the "latest" Fellini I had seen was ...And The Ship Sails On (which I enjoyed immensely).

Ginger And Fred, while blessed with wonderful performances by Giulieta Masina and Marcello Mastroianni, is a strangely muted affair. Visually, the film is surprisingly static, lacking the kinds of set pieces and faces that blessed City Of Women and ...And The Ship Sails On. Fellini's films have never been about narrative efficiency, but here, the story that's present isn't particularly compelling. His insights into television and its audience are somewhat simplistic and could be broadly applied to film or theatre. Indeed, the overall feeling I got from the film was that it was trifling; Fellini on autopilot but not invested the way his works from even a few years earlier are. Like the people in the variety show, Fellini and his cast go through the motions, enjoying the moment, but offering little of substance.

Dylan · #78 Post by **Dylan** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:21 am

planetjake wrote:I am actually in the process of learning Italian at the moment. I'm preparing to write my thesis and also saving up for a trip to Cinecitta, so knowledge of the language won't hurt me any... I think I'll pick up the disc... Thanks for the rec.

Jake, Did you pick up the "Voice of the Moon" DVD? Can we really follow the film without subtitles?

Fellini-Hexed · #79 Post by **Fellini-Hexed** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:58 am

I have the Italian disc and recommend it highly: even if you don't speak Italian (which I don't), you won't lose much.

Sorry tavernier, but I'm afraid I don't share your confidence in my ability to understand this beautiful film without subs

I saw it at Cinematheque Ontario last summer, and was delighted to find that it didn't deserve the panning it supposedly received on its release (John Baxter claims that the overall reaction was that this film proved the 'descent' of the maestro; Taschen's beautiful but infuriating book "Federico Fellini" repeats that kind of criticism). I loved this film, I thought it was as beautiful and passionate and full of surprises as many of his best films. It's also the most lyrical and poetic, with characters who speak almost entirely in metaphors set in long, swirling lines of dialogue. This is why I can't see myself understanding the film without subs. But this film, which includes an extended sequence of hand-held camera in a busy night club blaring Michael Jackson's "The Way You Make Me Feel" continues Fellini's growing preference for a (mostly, but for the club scene, and a comical sex romp) still camera, with hardly any of the fluid camera movements, the tracking and dolly shots, which dominate many of his earlier films. That may not be an accurate summation of his shooting style, but I find that the films after Roma tend to use a more and more static camera, although this is never a final or uniform choice (the wonderful wobbling deck in And the ship sails on, etc). A gorgeous film.

And Antoine Doinel, I think you've hit the nail on the head with Ginger and Fred, at least to my way of thinking. There isn't a film the maestro made that I can't enjoy at times, a scene here, a sequence there, etc., but Casanova, City of Women, and Ginger and Fred are three which I find the least satisfying, even though they're often intriguing. On the CC I Vitelloni disc, Tullio Kezich explains how Fellini became more and more embittered as he got older, and his bitterness spills over into the more didactic or 'finger-pointing' films which I've just listed. There's much to love in all 3, but ultimately, they get consumed by their own vitriol, and as a viewer (and lover!) of Fellini's films, I feel overstuffed with his anger when watching any of them.

It's interesting that you noted, Dylan (in a long-ago post in this thread), that you considered Intervista absolutely non-Fellini-like. I quite disagree with this; the film opens at night, at Cinecitta, is followed by Fellini's recounting of a dream (in which he discovers the small town he's flying over is Cinecitta); is followed by a tram ride into the past where a young Fellini (a la Roma) interviews an actress who lives in a tumescently pink room (Gradisca meets the Prince in Amarcord); features a scene where Mastroianni plays himself, and AGAIN subs in for Fellini (he's dressed as a magician for a commerical, I believe), produces a film screen in Anita Ekber's living room with a wave of his magic wand, etc. It has a parade, giant recreations of smaller objects, etc. It has so MUCH in common with his other films, it almost reads like an index of his obsessions. There are differences in how Fellini places his camera, many more medium shots than usual, for example, but the differences between this film and his older work are pretty much drowned out (I think) by the blatant similarities between them. You were quite adamant that there was NOTHING of the Fellini that you love in this film, and I find that very difficult to understand, although I'd be interested to read a summation of where and how you find this film so anti-Fellini.

planetjake · #80 Post by **planetjake** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:24 pm

Dylan wrote:
planetjake wrote:I am actually in the process of learning Italian at the moment. I'm preparing to write my thesis and also saving up for a trip to Cinecitta, so knowledge of the language won't hurt me any... I think I'll pick up the disc... Thanks for the rec.
Jake, Did you pick up the "Voice of the Moon" DVD? Can we really follow the film without subtitles?

No. Sorry, I haven't had the cash to procure the DVD. I've saved up enough to get the new Orchestra Rehearsal DVD (The R2 2-Disc set). Also, I'm saving up for everything that's coming out with the Amarcord re-release. (Seven Samurai, Godzilla + Boxset, etc.) It might be awhile until I get my hands on the Voice of the Moon DVD... Maybe I'm secretly wishing that NoShame will release it here in the US with a sweet 2-Disc Set... I can dream, right???

On another subject however, I for one think Intervista is one of Fellini's crown jewels.

Dylan · #81 Post by **Dylan** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:03 pm

Alright guys, I put on "Intervista" for the first time in a few years, and though I didn't watch the entire thing (I don't really have time to watch any movies this week), I skimmed through it for a bit and watched some of the scenes. I had forgotten most of it (for instance, just how much Fellini himself appears in it). As you said, this does have some of the things that defines him...but the presentation of everything isn't very imaginative, nor does it ever feel like it's going anywhere (and for me, it doesn't really go anywhere). The presentation is somewhere in between the docu scenes in "Roma" and the static randomness of "Ginger & Fred," and I don't think it works very well. But mostly, it's too long, I think it could've easily lost twenty or thirty minutes ("Prova D'Orchestra" is about 77 minutes long, and is far tighter in pacing and is saying far more than this film is). The music is great, though most of the time it doesn't seem like Fellini or Piovani have a confident feel for how the score should be amplified or applied...it's just sort of there. And I do think the music itself is the most Felliniesque part of the movie, although I agree that there are other things here and there, but their presentation just doesn't feel special to me. These elements are not filtered through the imagination that defines him.

There are some cute things in it though, and the twenty minute stretch with Mastroianni is charming. It is genuinely touching when they show the fountain scene. Here the music works very well, with Piovani's beautiful arrangement of Rota's "Dolce Vita" theme. I also must say that the line Mastroianni says about how masturbating develops a novelist's turn of mind made me laugh pretty hard. And as I said, there are cute things here and there.

It's not bad, but it feels second-rate to me, and I get from it none of the inspiration or amazing feelings I get from everything he made from '51-'78.

Fellini-Hexed · #82 Post by **Fellini-Hexed** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:35 am

Alright guys, I put on "Intervista" for the first time in a few years, and though I didn't watch the entire thing (I don't really have time to watch any movies this week), I skimmed through it for a bit and watched some of the scenes. I had forgotten most of it (for instance, just how much Fellini himself appears in it). As you said, this does have some of the things that defines him...but the presentation of everything isn't very imaginative, nor does it ever feel like it's going anywhere (and for me, it doesn't really go anywhere).

Just some quick thoughts before I shuttle off to work...

Dylan, I'm happy that you took the time to even skim through the film to test your earlier responses. I think an investigation of this next to last of Fellini's films is going to be fun. I'm going to try to do the same. It would be great if you could give the film a fully devoted screening, although when it comes to work impinging on film-time, I hear ya.

You've pointed out the Mastroianni segment as charming, and I wonder too if it isn't the heart of the film. It's the most blatantly nostalgaic sequence, revisiting his most revisited and spoken about scene in Fellini's entire career. It makes me think even more that this film is like a catalogue of everything that has come before it; each of his phases drawn out and investigated with as naive and curious (the Japanese journalists in a new land, in a new language) as he can be. I'm curious to what your (and others') response will be to La voce della luna, which I think of now as something of a new beginning.

Antoine Doinel · #83 Post by **Antoine Doinel** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:44 am

Ginger & Fred finally gets an R1 release from Warner on 2/13.

Fellini-Hexed · #84 Post by **Fellini-Hexed** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:26 pm

Ginger & Fred finally gets an R1 release from Warner on 2/13.

Cool! Does this mean that Warners has the rights to the other MGM Fellini titles, Satyricon and Roma? That would be such a relief!

The Fanciful Norwegian · #85 Post by **The Fanciful Norwegian** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:30 pm

Fellini-Hexed wrote:
Ginger & Fred finally gets an R1 release from Warner on 2/13.
Cool! Does this mean that Warners has the rights to the other MGM Fellini titles, Satyricon and Roma? That would be such a relief!

Only Ginger and Fred was an MGM release in the U.S. -- Satyricon and Roma were handled by United Artists, before their merger with MGM. Ginger and Fred probably passed to WB along with the bulk of the MGM library, but nearly all of the UA library remained with MGM/UA and will probably stay there for the time being. (The American Cinematheque's Fellini retrospective in 2004 listed WB as the print source for Ginger and Fred and MGM/UA as the print source for Roma and Satyricon; furthermore, the MGM DVDs of the latter two are still in print.)

Fellini-Hexed · #86 Post by **Fellini-Hexed** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:01 am

Only Ginger and Fred was an MGM release in the U.S. -- Satyricon and Roma were handled by United Artists, before their merger with MGM. Ginger and Fred probably passed to WB along with the bulk of the MGM library, but nearly all of the UA library remained with MGM/UA and will probably stay there for the time being. (The American Cinematheque's Fellini retrospective in 2004 listed WB as the print source for Ginger and Fred and MGM/UA as the print source for Roma and Satyricon; furthermore, the MGM DVDs of the latter two are still in print.)

Ah, poop. Thanks for the info, Fanciful. As disappointing as it is. Both Satyricon and Roma are deserving of Warners-style attention; the MGM DVDs are not horrible (well, Roma is just passable, being 1:66:1 and not the true 1:85:1), but both are deserving of restorations (Satyricon doesn't look too bad at all, but there's some fluttering during Trimalchio's belching scene, etc) and extras. Roma in particular is missing the nearly-10 minute Mastraoianni scene, although its inclusion has sometimes been disputed, if I remember correctly. It's included in the pan-and-scan VHS version from the early 90's, though. Ah well, maybe someday.

Anonymous · #87 Post by **Anonymous** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:27 am

Dylan wrote:For me, the only two films during his high point (1951-78) that aren't great are "Roma" and "Dr. Antonio," which I still think is are good movies, and Fellini's impeccable signature is undoubtedly on both. There are many memorable scenes in "Roma," such as the religious run-way show, the entire sequence with Fellini and crew, the underground paintings fading, the whore house...I didn't feel that it was as successful as adding up to a coheisive whole as most of his other films, but I like it. "Dr. Antonio" struck me as minor but very fun (particularly the construction of Ekberg's advertisement).

I have to disagree, Roma is amazing. Every scene was surreal and capturing. However, it is hard for some to ignore the fact that there is no narrative storyline and instead just a collection of memories and events. But this is a different kind of film where you can just sit and be engrossed in the atmosphere each creates for you. Its amazing how he can evoke strong emotional senses in this film. Let him take you and show you Roma with an open mind and you'll enjoy the experience. I did.

Dylan · #88 Post by **Dylan** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:05 am

Well, as my post indicated, I like "Roma" and have watched it a few times, I just don't find it to be great. It has been a few years since I've watched it, though. It would be a nice one to see in a theatre.

Toby Dammit: now thatis one of his finest films

I'm not sure how far this discussion is going to go, but I feel it's important as "Toby Dammit," in my opinion, is one of the best films of the '60s, and one of Fellini's masterpieces. It stars Terrence Stamp as an English actor in Rome who doesn't understand most (all?) of what is being spoken to him.

The Home Vision DVD, released a few years ago, only offers the French dub of the entire film, which obviously really hurts the segment wherein an English actor is in Rome. But that's the only way I've been able to see it.

Last night I found out that there was a R4 Australian release, and was hoping this offered the film in English/Italian, but no chance, it's also in French. The version shown on the Sundance channel (where the best available print of "Fellini's Casanova" is showing) is also in French.

I have no idea about the Italian/French/German DVD releases of "Spirits of the Dead." If anybody knows if any of these contain the English/Italian track, please post here!

So far, the only availability of the English/Italian track is the "Water Bearer" DVD, which seems to have it's flaws (though I'd be more than happy to deal with them just to hear Stamp speak English), but moreover, it's out of print...here's the information courtesy of DVD Savant:

The English language track (provided by Tim Lucas) that appeared on the previous Water Bearer DVD and LD featured Stamp's English-speaking voice with the Italian actors speaking Italian. As you noted, the sense of displacement that results is half the point of the story. The problem with the Water Bearer version was that the burned-in subtitles captioned all the dialogue, including Stamp's English. If it wasn't for that distraction, then everything would be cool, but it appears that we just can't get Toby Dammit in English and Italian with optional English subtitles for the Italian dialogue. I'm of the mind that Toby Dammit works brilliantly without subtitles for the Italian dialogue, but of course you have to have Stamp's dialogue in English for the whole thing to work. Tim offered his audio to Home Vision, but he was ignored.

I would be more than willing to watch the film with burnt-in subs for Stamp's dialogue...but, as I said, this edition is no longer available. You really have to wonder though why HMV refused Tim's offering of the English/Italian track, because that really doesn't make any sense.

Let the investigation begin. I really do hope we can unearth a release somewhere in the world that's in its intended audio.

Awesome, "Love in the City" is finally available on DVD, R2 from Italy with English subtitles (and English subbed extras).

Seven top Italian filmmakers pooled their talents on the omnibus "reality" feature L'amore in Citta (Love in the City). The film is divided into six separate episodes; the first of these, "Paid Love", is a straightforward study of prostitution written and directed by Carlo Lizzani. In the second, Michelangelo Antonioni's "Attempted Suicide", several would-be suicides discuss the reasons for their despair. Dino Risi's "Paradise for Four Hours" is a humorous glance at a provincial dance hall.

Federico Fellini's "Marriage Agency" finds an investigative reporter posing as a husband-to-be. Cesara Zavattini and Umberto Maselli's "Story of Caterina" dramatizes the true story of a young unwed mother. And "Italians Stare", written and directed by Alberto Lattuada, illustrates the various "girl-watching" techniques of Italian males.

Among the actors participating in the six vignettes are Ugo Tognazzi, Maressa Gallo, and Caterina Riogoglioso. Originally intended as the first installment in a "movie magazine" titled "The Spectator".

DVD FEATURES
Original Fullscreen Version
Italian audio
Optional English subtitles
Audio Commentaries (In Italian only)
Interviews with Paolo Mereghetti, Luca Bandirali & Angelo Pasquini (Italian with optional English subtitles)
Trailer
34 page booklet (Italian and English text)

Sounds like great fun! It can be purchased at Xploited Cinema.

Cinesimilitude · #89 Post by **Cinesimilitude** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:09 pm

Dr. Antonio is unquestionably Fellini's most funniest film. The last shot will leave you grinning from ear to ear. A mini masterpiece.

I must chime In here, as far as i'm concerned, The Temptation of Dr. Antonio is Fellini's Best work, 2nd maybe only to 8 1/2. and on the recommendation of the thread, I just blind bought "Spirits of the Dead".

I really have to admit to not seeing as much of Fellini's work as I should have by now, so I'm going to have to add to my comment about dr antonio that of the work I've seen, It is his 3rd best. right now, my top 3 are 8 1/2, Amarcord (the anamorphic really brought the experience to life for me) and Dr. Antonio. I'm going to see how many more fellini films I can see before I go on vacation, and then I'll write a paper on him for my film class next semester and post it here about his work as a whole, sometime in February or March.

I didn't know Fellini intended to release Dr. Antonio seperately, and Im not sure If I wanted to. Now I cn only dream of how wonderful the story would be with more depth and a feature length running time...

Jason · #90 Post by **Jason** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:22 pm

I watched Boccaccio '70 last night. Absolutely fantastic.

David Ehrenstein · #91 Post by **David Ehrenstein** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:46 pm

Toby Dammit is one of Fellini's greatest achievements. The Waterbearer edition isn't bad, if you overlook the subtitle problem.

Fellini originally concieved the part for Peter O'Toole, but O'Toole turned it down at the last minute -- realizing it was too close for comfort. Stamp stepped in giving one of his finest performances. Fellini's attack on Italian television in this film is a precursor of what he does at length in Ginger and Fred. But the overall atmosphere of Toby Dammit is as one with Italian horror films of the 1960's, pparticularly the work of Mario Bava.

The Temptation of Dr. Antonio is tons of fun, but the real gem in Boccaccio 70 is Visconti's The Job -- one of his greatest cinematic achievements.

Jason · #92 Post by **Jason** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:54 pm

It's always emphasized that Giulietta degli spiriti is his first color feature, but his Boccaccio '70 segment is around 55 minutes - if I remember correctly - so why is this always pointed out?

tryavna · #93 Post by **tryavna** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:21 pm

Jason wrote:It's always emphasized that Giulietta degli spiriti is his first color feature, but his Boccaccio '70 segment is around 55 minutes - if I remember correctly - so why is this always pointed out?

This is a good question, particularly in light of the conversation about Sherlock Jr over in the MoC/Keaton thread. Obviously, 55 minutes would require more than three reels. However, my guess is that the segments of anthology films are always considered parts of a larger whole rather than as individual features in and of themselves.

I guess there just aren't any hard and fast definitions for what a "feature" really is.

Jason · #94 Post by **Jason** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:00 am

I guess there just aren't any hard and fast definitions for what a "feature" really is.

I'm not arguging his segment as a feature; I just wonder why, although he had worked with color before, there is such emphasis on the fact that he used it for Giulietta considering he had already made one film [regardless of length] in it.

Speaking of which, and this brings me to another question - I really adore the look of this film, enough to look up the cinematographer. I was a bit surprised to see Otello Martelli had shot most of his films up to this point only to be dropped [or to quit himself] directly afterwards. Did they have creative differences? What's the story here?

Dylan · #95 Post by **Dylan** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:53 am

I see that Otello Martelli lived to be nearly 98 years old. With the exception of "The White Sheik" and "Nights of Cabiria" (for which he did some uncredited additional cinematography...was he fired?), he had shot every Fellini film from "Variety Lights" to "Boccaccio '70."

I'm not sure what happened, but, as excellent of a DP Martelli was, the change of cinematographers is obvious once you move into "8 1/2" (shot by Gianni Di Venanzo, who also shot "Juliet of the Spirits") which doesn't look anything like the Fellini films that came before it, and in turn was essentially the first film to introduce many of the elements that most deem "Felliniesque" today ("8 1/2" is also, in my opinion, the most beautifully photographed movie of all-time). Di Venanzo only shot two Fellini films because he died soon after "Juliet of the Spirits" was released. When "Toby Dammit" came along, the replacement was Giuseppe Rotunno (who up to that point had shot most of Visconti's films). While filming "Dammit," Rotunno and Fellini worked so unusually well together that Rotunno shot every Fellini film for the next 16 years. One of the great prolonged director/DP collaborations.

"Dr Antonio" is technically Fellini's first use of color film, but it is a reasonably shorter work in an omnibus, and one that had gone out of circulation for decades. Had Fellini been given the blessing to release "Dr. Antonio" as he secretly intended during filming, as a feature, the story would obviously be different (and, being a whole Fellini film, it probably wouldn't have been out of circulation for that long, either). Fellini himself expressed that he wasn't as free to experiment with color on "Dr. Antonio" as he wished, which is why he really went wild with "Juliet of the Spirits."

I've mentioned it on here previously, but it was a while back. But yes, the first edit of "Antonio" was 90 minutes in Fellini's hope that the producers would allow him to release it separately from "Boccaccio '70," but they figured that dropping Fellini's name from the project would lose a lot of publicity, so they had Fellini cut it into the proposed 55 minutes. What the extra time consisted of was more than likely extended versions of the scenes that are already there (such as where he confronts the whores, or when the three women {or was it two?} circle him in the hallway).

Steve, check out the book "I Fellini.

Cinesimilitude · #96 Post by **Cinesimilitude** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:36 am

Dylan wrote:Steve, check out the book "I Fellini."

I've been meaning too, I should have much more time on my hands in 07.

Jason · #97 Post by **Jason** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:34 am

Dylan wrote:check out the book "I Fellini."

I actually signed on this morning to ask about that very book; what are the other best books on Fellini? I'm eyeing Federico Fellini: Interviews from the Conversations with Filmmakers series that I so enjoy.
Also, thanks so much for answering all my questions and then some.

David Ehrenstein · #98 Post by **David Ehrenstein** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:22 am

Gianni Di Venanzo died during the shooting of Mankiewicz's exquisite The Honey Pot. One of the greatest dp's of all time his work on Antonioni's L'Eclisse is another career high.

Dylan · #99 Post by **Dylan** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:35 am

I'm eyeing Federico Fellini: Interviews from the Conversations with Filmmakers series that I so enjoy.

Their volumes on Bertolucci, Kubrick, and Polanski are excellent, so I imagine the Fellini one is just as great. If you check it out, I'd be interested in what you think.

As for other books, Peter Bondanella's "The Cinema of Federico Fellini is pretty indispensable for the Fellini fan.

I haven't read it yet, but Tullio Kezich's biography looks very good, too.

I also have an out of print book from the 70s called "Fellini's Faces," which is a large collection of photographs from his archives mainly consisting of people who submitted their faces to his casting office...needless to say, flipping through the book is a lot like watching one of his movies. Well worth picking up if you find it at a used book store.

Jason · #100 Post by **Jason** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:24 pm

Dylan wrote:I haven't read it yet, but Tullio Kezich's biography looks very good, too.

The only review up at amzon.com is rather negative.

Tullio Kezich claims to have been a long time friend of Federico Fellini and perhaps that's one of the several reasons this biography is very disappointing.

Kezich approaches his subject as an insider, someone who shared the same social circle and perhaps artistic pretensions. (Kezich is descibed as a film critic, author of numerous boks on cinema and a playwright.)

The book is worshipful of Fellini, talks a lot about parties, drops a lot of names, but gives precious little information about Fellini. What information it does provide reads more like a campaign tract for sainthood. Comments such as "[t]he grief over his death is indescribable" add nothing to our understanding of Fellini as man or artist.

The situation is not helped by Kezich's writing style which, charitably, can only be described as bloated and pretentious. Perhaps the blandness is partly due to translation. Paragraphs run on forever, sentences are often incomplete and reminiscent of a high school student trying really, really hard to be impressive.

Amazingly, for a book about one of the greatest of all film makers, there is not a single photograph. Likewise the author presumes that any one reading the book will remember every detail of Fellini's films, most of which I haven't seen in 30 years or so.

I had hoped for a biography that would lead me into Fellini's life and mind. Instead all I got was a list of parties he went to and some fluffly, adulatory prose about great his movies were. I already knew that --- I wanted to know more about Fellini made such great movies. Not in this book.

If you ever read it yourself, let me know what you think. For now, I'll probably go with Interviews and Bondanella' book. You, sir, are indispensable.