Caligula Four-Disc Imperial Edition

[bruce holecheck]

That DVD Beaver "review" is a joke -- it's been updated several times now; in the original version posted it was obvious the "reviewer" didn't even bother watching the material in question.

[Barmy]

The Beaver review is pretty lame. There is a French DVD which probably isn't that great but who knows? COMPARE!

The screen caps look bad. I don't remember my old R1 looking that bad.

[colinr0380]

That DVD Beaver "review" is a joke -- it's been updated several times now; in the original version posted it was obvious the "reviewer" didn't even bother watching the material in question.

I'd agree - it certainly is a strange film that has to be seen to be believed, and I don't really understand the Beaver's approach of attacking it on grounds of historical accuracy, since approaching even the classic big studio epics such as Spartacus or Cleopatra with an eye to accuracy would be a foolish exercise.

About the hardcore scenes - I'm ambivalent about it. I suppose it really shows how Guccione only thought of the film on the most basic porn level as a great way to show loads of sex. One of the interesting things about the film is that it is pretty easy to tell which sexual scenes were filmed by Tinto Brass himself as they are usually explicit in a disturbing fashion - such as Caligula raping a bride and fisting the groom on their wedding day (I'm sure they would much have preferred a present of a toaster or some cutlery!), or Tiberius bathing surrounded by dozens of naked young people (which sort of reminded me of the men in Salo almost trying to smother themselves with younger flesh to relive their own youth), or the sex scenes with deformed people. It feels that they are making a point by their inclusion - there for the purpose of showing the society collapsing under the weight of its own decadence. (He did a similar thing in Salon Kitty)

I guess one of the reasons Guccione stepped in and took it upon himself to shoot the hardcore with attractive young ladies and 'larger' gentlemen is because he realised Brass wasn't making the sex scenes sexy. So he took it upon himself to add the extra 'real' porn scenes. Cronenfly makes a good point about being able to buy some "real porno" for the same price, and I'd probably advise people looking for something to get off on to avoid the film - if you are watching the film purely for the titilation you are going to be in for a very schizophrenic experience as you get moved from the obviously pornographic to the extremely replusive (sometimes within the same scene!)

In some ways I find that adds an extra disturbing layer to the film though, as the film stops for a five minute sex digression set piece, much as Brass created the shocking death machine set piece earlier in the film. Sex and death have become all pervasive and easily available, and therefore have no deeper meaning than just the physical act of performing them left any more.

[cdnchris]

Beaver weighs in

Before I click on that link, I'm gonna guess: 4 tits and a bare bottom.

EDIT: Whoa! Did I miscalculate.

Whoa, did you ever!

[colinr0380]

New thread in the Lists forum:
Most Famous Cocks in Cinema
01. Some guy from Caligula (source: some website about Caligula)

It wouldn't be much of a list - numbers 2-9 would list the various films Ewan McGregor has appeared nude in and number 10 would be reserved for a special mention to every other male actor who has appeared in a Peter Greenaway film!

[Cronenfly]

I guess one of the reasons Guccione stepped in and took it upon himself to shoot the hardcore with attractive young ladies and 'larger' gentlemen is because he realised Brass wasn't making the sex scenes sexy. So he took it upon himself to add the extra 'real' porn scenes. Cronenfly makes a good point about being able to buy some "real porno" for the same price, and I'd probably advise people looking for something to get off on to avoid the film - if you are watching the film purely for the titilation you are going to be in for a very schizophrenic experience as you get moved from the obviously pornographic to the extremely replusive (sometimes within the same scene!)

In some ways I find that adds an extra disturbing layer to the film though, as the film stops for a five minute sex digression set piece, much as Brass created the shocking death machine set piece earlier in the film. Sex and death have become all pervasive and easily available, and therefore have no deeper meaning than just the physical act of performing them left any more.

You make some good points, and I haven't given up on the movie: it's just one of those situations where I don't know whether to take the plunge or not. You make it sound somewhat, in a way, like The Cook, the Thief, His Wife and Her Lover, a film that I love: while I'm not suggesting that the two are in any way comprable, their (perhaps only attempted in Caligula's case, as cut short by Guccione, maybe made even stronger by the contrast in intentions [supposed beauty and pleasure vs. utter depravity], also present to a degree in the Greenaway film) deconstuctions of the frequent ugliness of human sexuality (and humanity at large) are perhaps not as dissimilar as their divergent critical reps, which have grown (or shrunk) mostly on the basis of that very factor. I have zero interest in 'conventional' pornography (that still sounds wrong): the above comments were just knee-jerk to the Beaver review, which is indeed hackery in looking back. Thanks for making me think a bit more before outright dismissal took hold.

[colinr0380]

The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover is my absolute favourite Greenaway film of those he has made so far! I like all his films, but usually find myself returning much more to his short films than his narrative works (one of the reasons why I'm desperately hoping a British or American DVD company picks up the Tulse Luper films is because they sound similar in vein to The Falls!)

I think the best way to approach Caligula is the same way I'd approach the Don Siegel 60s version of The Killers - look at the ramped up performances and insane sets as an expression of the fakeness of the world the characters inhabit. It could be argued that I'm just trying to make excuses for watching a poorly acted porn film, trying to find ways to make the film seem good, but I'm sure McDowell, Mirren and O'Toole knew what they were doing with their performances (though I'll be interested to listen to the commentaries to hear whether I'm on the right track or not!), and knew that they were not exactly involved in a tame and inoffensive film where wild performances would be out of place, even if they weren't aware of the hardcore scenes until later. A word of warning if you are buying the film purely for Gielgud and O'Toole: they only have a couple of scenes at the beginning of the film before McDowell ascends to power!

I should also admit to liking Teresa Ann Savoy in this film and especially in Salon Kitty, where she has more to do and has the responsibility of carrying the main narrative thread of that film, from which the various brothel subplots diverge.

[MichaelB]

New thread in the Lists forum:
Most Famous Cocks in Cinema
01. Some guy from Caligula (source: some website about Caligula)

It wouldn't be much of a list - numbers 2-9 would list the various films Ewan McGregor has appeared nude in and number 10 would be reserved for a special mention to every other male actor who has appeared in a Peter Greenaway film!

I think Boogie Nights and Borowczyk's La Bête should definitely get a look-in.

I'm sure McDowell, Mirren and O'Toole knew what they were doing with their performances (though I'll be interested to listen to the commentaries to hear whether I'm on the right track or not!), and knew that they were not exactly involved in a tame and inoffensive film where wild performances would be out of place, even if they weren't aware of the hardcore scenes until later.

I suspect Gore Vidal's original script (included as a DVD-ROM feature) will be even more interesting, given the official narrative of a brilliant writer being traduced by sleazy hacks. As ever, I suspect the truth is a lot more complex and messy - wasn't the fisting scene a McDowell-devised substitute for anal rape, which was presumably in the Vidal version?

My copy should arrive any day now, so I'll find out soon enough.

[dx23]

Surprisingly this is being released on Blu-Ray on Novemeber 4th. It's 2 disc and cost less than the deluxe 3 disc edition.

[colinr0380]

If anything deserves a thirteen year thread bump it would be the discovery of this faux toy commercial for Caligula! If kids had received these toys in the 1980s instead of Transformers we may have been getting the Caligula Cinematic Universe today!