UHD and HDR in General

[mhofmann]

Color depth 50, fine tune leave as is, white balance tone down significantly from warm50 (everything looks Ritrovata’d out of the box ) to something like warm10 or even 0.

Isn't Warm50 supposed to correspond to the D65 industry standard? It is warmer than many people are used to, in part because we have so much blue light pushed at us.

Yes, I’m convinced that Warm50 is the correct setting to retain for a most calibrated experience out-of-the-box. (Even for Ritrovata films )

[nicolas]

Color depth 50, fine tune leave as is, white balance tone down significantly from warm50 (everything looks Ritrovata’d out of the box ) to something like warm10 or even 0.

Isn't Warm50 supposed to correspond to the D65 industry standard? It is warmer than many people are used to, in part because we have so much blue light pushed at us.

Yes, I’m convinced that Warm50 is the correct setting to retain for a most calibrated experience out-of-the-box. (Even for Ritrovata films )

This is surprising to hear but I’ll give it another thought now and do some research. I was firmly convinced that someone at LG fell asleep on the keyboard when tuning the white balance factory settings. I’d have understood Warm20 but 50 felt excessive. Thank you very much for the hint.

[therewillbeblus]

TruMotion you may want to set to Cinematic if the 24fps judder annoys you too much.

So when I tested the settings on a DVD first, all the options were there - I was able to select Real Cinema mode and Peak Brightness - High, etc., but now after trying three separate DVDs, there's a ton of judder, and oddly it won't un-grey these settings as options to turn on (including Real Cinema mode, greyed and 'off') - which I thought meant that it wasn't 24fps, but they're all R1 DVDs. I tried changing modes, adjusting the settings, and it still wouldn't let me alter that mode, and then reverted back and same deal. Not really sure what to do at this point - Do I 'reset' the settings? If I do that, will I need to re-do them all for HDR, DV, SDR? It's strange because the settings I had saved were peak brightness-high, cinema mode, etc. so even if these were locked in-stone, they are the exact opposite of what I had put. But everything else is represented the way I set it. Weird.

Edit: Tried the reset - no luck. And it won't let me apply to all inputs anymore, even following the reset, so I don't know if I just messed it up for good or what

[therewillbeblus]

Ran some tests: Once the DVD was taken out, the settings were all back to normal and not grey'd. I just tried two blu-rays, and The Trial Criterion SDR 4K, and they don't allow any changes to the grey settings either - and "peak brightness" is frustratingly set to off.. Then I tried an HDR 4K and same issues persist. (I tested Princess Bride and the DV settings are perfect - in place, and nothing is grey'd. I suppose you're right that it could be something with 'Filmmaker Mode' - except that these features worked just fine yesterday! Could I have switched something on my 4K player to mess this up for HDR/SDR but not DV?

I can't find any help online - it seems that most people complaining of this issue are in Game or PC mode, but I'm not. And I tried the unplug/plug back in HDMi thing from the video and nada

[nicolas]

Ran some tests: Once the DVD was taken out, the settings were all back to normal and not grey'd. I just tried two blu-rays, and The Trial Criterion SDR 4K, and they don't allow any changes to the grey settings either - and "peak brightness" is frustratingly set to off.. Then I tried an HDR 4K and same issues persist. (I tested Princess Bride and the DV settings are perfect - in place, and nothing is grey'd. I suppose you're right that it could be something with 'Filmmaker Mode' - except that these features worked just fine yesterday! Could I have switched something on my 4K player to mess this up for HDR/SDR but not DV?

I can't find any help online - it seems that most people complaining of this issue are in Game or PC mode, but I'm not. And I tried the unplug/plug back in HDMi thing from the video and nada

This keeps getting stranger but I definitely think it’s the Filmmaker Mode. Before we have to go to greater lengths and reset all settings, I’d say try going to Picture -> advanced settings and disable FILMMAKER MODE Auto Start, then go to SDR and HDR content each and reset your FM settings. Then go to another mode and calibrate it correctly for your everyday BD / UHD viewing and keep the DVD mode intact. Then go to your player again and "feed" the TV SDR and HDR content to have it learn your new mode of choice. Afterwards, try the DVD again using your other mode and see how it works.

If the issue is still present, I think you have to reset all settings to default and start over. I have no other idea what’s wrong. It’s definitely the TV - the player settings are independent. I’m not sure whether I said something wrong or it’s this 4:4:4 setting causing the trouble. It’s annoying that I don’t have it on my end, otherwise I’d have checked already. Is this 4:4:4 setting a “global” setting, meaning does it spread across all LG viewing modes or is this something you can adapt in each individual mode? If you can tweak it individually, tone it down to the next lower one in the DVD mode.

[therewillbeblus]

Ha - after experimenting with a variety of things, it was the "4:4:4" setting on the TV that was doing this! Maybe it's actually preferable to have it on - who knows - but it's nice to know what caused it!

Also, my presets seemed to have Dynamic Tone Mapping OFF on the OLED, but am I crazy or is this supposed to be ON?

[nicolas]

Ha - after experimenting with a variety of things, it was the "4:4:4" setting on the TV that was doing this! Maybe it's actually preferable to have it on - who knows - but it's nice to know what caused it!

Also, my presets seemed to have Dynamic Tone Mapping OFF on the OLED, but am I crazy or is this supposed to be ON?

I have this activated. If the TV wouldn’t do the dynamic tone mapping, the Panasonic would have do it specifically. There is a dedicated setting available which helped enormously for these early, 10.000 nits UHDs but with the new TV’s good tone mapping, it’s essentially redundant now.

[therewillbeblus]

That's what I thought - which is what prompted the double-take. Thanks so much for all your support as I get this running!

[Matt]

Paramount is launching a new line of releases with all four formats (UHD, BD, DVD, and digital code) in a DVD-size case. $15 each. If Criterion did this—even at the same price point—heads across the forum would explode in rage at being “forced” to buy “coasters”

[tenia]

At some point, I stopped caring about coasters but this move makes 0 sense, both technically and marketing-ly. It looks like trying to replicate mega-combos that were already tried back for BD and didn't work then, why would it work now when it means the gap between the newest and oldest disc is even bigger, when the video market is 90% digital, and when studios like Paramount keep issuing newer discs but refuse to provide remastered BDs ?

[Gcsee]

Under Devices -> HDMI Deep Color -> always turn that off. This is the only annoyance I have with my TV. It frequently asks me to turn that on when I switch HDMI channels. I always have to shut it off. I once tried to turn it on to get rid of the prompt but that causes a signal loss on my end with my Panasonic player, so I definitely recommend to reject it every time.
............................

Now to the Panasonic. I have the same player. The most important ones are the following: under “HDMI” 4K (50p/60p) should be set to 4:4:4, then go to advanced settings. Deep Color Output to 12 bit..

Maybe I’m not reading this right but you turn off the HDMI Deep Colour option on your Oled but have it turned on as an output to 12 bit on the Panasonic 820? Why?

[nicolas]

Under Devices -> HDMI Deep Color -> always turn that off. This is the only annoyance I have with my TV. It frequently asks me to turn that on when I switch HDMI channels. I always have to shut it off. I once tried to turn it on to get rid of the prompt but that causes a signal loss on my end with my Panasonic player, so I definitely recommend to reject it every time.
............................

Now to the Panasonic. I have the same player. The most important ones are the following: under “HDMI” 4K (50p/60p) should be set to 4:4:4, then go to advanced settings. Deep Color Output to 12 bit..

Maybe I’m not reading this right but you turn off the HDMI Deep Colour option on your Oled but have it turned on as an output to 12 bit on the Panasonic 820? Why?

The HDMI Deep Color setting doesn’t work on my end, meaning if enabled, I don’t get any HDMI signal from my devices any more - just a black screen. As soon as that’s off, everything works as it should again. No problem on my Panasonic with the 12bit setting.

[Gcsee]

Ok, that’s too bad. The reason I’m asking is that I’m under the impression that the deep colour setting on the LG Oled is connected to bit depth and correct display resolution, per LG themselves on how the device (the 820) and the tv communicate with this setting activated:

https://www.lg.com/ca_en/support/produc ... 131182045/

[nicolas]

Ok, that’s too bad. The reason I’m asking is that I’m under the impression that the deep colour setting on the LG Oled is connected to bit depth and correct display resolution, per LG themselves on how the device (the 820) and the tv communicate with this setting activated:

https://www.lg.com/ca_en/support/produc ... 131182045/

Thank you for that link. I’ll give this a new try over the weekend. Maybe there were issues in the beginning that were resolved in the meantime via software updates on both Panasonic and LG’s ends. I have my TV since 2022 and never bothered with the setting again after testing it extensively at the time. The crucial setting regarding 12-bit color output still is the Panasonic one as the LG obviously only receives what the player supplies. As everything works out for me fine with the Panasonic setting enabled, I’m certain LG is the dealbreaker here.

[Gcsee]

I have 3 LG OLED tv’s in the house and never come across this problem so maybe it’s fixable. Looking down the LG page they do give some tips on how to resolve your problem. I know from experience that a good or new hdmi cable can sometimes make a difference as well.

[Matt]

At some point, I stopped caring about coasters but this move makes 0 sense, both technically and marketing-ly. It looks like trying to replicate mega-combos that were already tried back for BD and didn't work then, why would it work now when it means the gap between the newest and oldest disc is even bigger, when the video market is 90% digital, and when studios like Paramount keep issuing newer discs but refuse to provide remastered BDs ?

The Twitter/X thread that screenshot is taken from says the nominal idea is to encourage BD and UHD adoption among those who have yet to upgrade. It looks like a pilot program with a small number of titles, so it's no big deal to them if it flops.

According to industry news source Media Play News, DVD sales still account for 63.5% of all home media sales. BD at 29.3%, UHD at 7.2%. I suppose by including all formats in one package, you increase the number of BD and UHD units sold, making it look like more consumers are adopting those formats. I'm sure most physical media companies would love to drop DVD altogether and not have to support three different formats, but only small specialty labels in the US like Vinegar Syndrome can afford to do it.

[tenia]

Oh I totally get what they're trying to do and with who, I just think it's rehash of DF formats from 10 years ago with BD and DVD, that it didn't work then despite a more favourable context, I'm just appalled they're so grasping at straws on how to push higher formats that all they could think of was this.

I mean, what are buyers supposed to move on to in a digitalcopybduhd package to begin with ? Digital copy ? Of Beverly Hills Cop ? Oh yeah, it'll definitely show people who still haven't switched to either a 15yo format or a 8yo one what they're missing (if they already have the player to, well, play the discs they never cared for so far).

[therewillbeblus]

Ok, that’s too bad. The reason I’m asking is that I’m under the impression that the deep colour setting on the LG Oled is connected to bit depth and correct display resolution, per LG themselves on how the device (the 820) and the tv communicate with this setting activated:

https://www.lg.com/ca_en/support/produc ... 131182045/

I'll be honest, I've been doing various tests today and I just can't tell the difference whether it's on or off

[Gcsee]

I’m sure that like a lot of these settings they may not be that useful for casual viewing and something you only notice if you know what to look for (I believe that Deep Colour full 2.1 HDMI bandwidth is important if you use the LG Oled for gaming, colour banding is then the most obvious sign). But at least you want to make sure devices using HDMI are correctly ’speaking’ to each other (that’s why I tend to favour auto settings if possible). But having a signal with enough bandwidth through HDMI is becoming more important with 4K and higher bitrates.

But as with all things HDR, the processing and implementation of it may be subtle and/or subjective a lot of the times and probably very dependent on TV brand, screen size and viewing distance whether anything is visible or not.

[nicolas]

I’m sure that like a lot of these settings they may not be that useful for casual viewing and something you only notice if you know what to look for (I believe that Deep Colour full 2.1 HDMI bandwidth is important if you use the LG Oled for gaming, colour banding is then the most obvious sign). But at least you want to make sure devices using HDMI are correctly ’speaking’ to each other (that’s why I tend to favour auto settings if possible). But having a signal with enough bandwidth through HDMI is becoming more important with 4K and higher bitrates.

But as with all things HDR, the processing and implementation of it may be subtle and/or subjective a lot of the times and probably very dependent on TV brand, screen size and viewing distance whether anything is visible or not.

I tested the Deep Color thing again and it worked! I have to say I’m positively surprised to see that it worked flawlessly on first try. LG definitely fixed the flaws I encountered in 2022. I have an Apple TV 4K connected and upon selecting Deep Color, the ATV reset my picture settings and switched to HDR before immediately asking me about Dolby Vision again. And it works all flawlessly. @therewillbeblus I immediately noticed a subtle difference in the colors now once the 12-bit signal ports through. You don’t technically get more colors, which is a common misconception in regards to HDR and DV for which advertising with their “millions of colors” is to blame, but better gradations with the expanded bit depth from 8-bit (SDR) onwards. I’m glad it works now as I appreciate the difference. Looking forward to testing this with my other devices as well. Thank you Gcsee for raising attention to the topic, much appreciated.

[therewillbeblus]

@therewillbeblus I immediately noticed a subtle difference in the colors now once the 12-bit signal ports through. You don’t technically get more colors, which is a common misconception in regards to HDR and DV for which advertising with their “millions of colors” is to blame, but better gradations with the expanded bit depth from 8-bit (SDR) onwards.

Thanks for the rundown! I imagine the answer is no, but do I need to alter any settings on my Panasonic 820 in order to make this effective, or moreso?

[nicolas]

@therewillbeblus I immediately noticed a subtle difference in the colors now once the 12-bit signal ports through. You don’t technically get more colors, which is a common misconception in regards to HDR and DV for which advertising with their “millions of colors” is to blame, but better gradations with the expanded bit depth from 8-bit (SDR) onwards.

Thanks for the rundown! I imagine the answer is no, but do I need to alter any settings on my Panasonic 820 in order to make this effective, or moreso?

No, everything’s fine with your current settings if you have the HDR BT.2020 and general Dolby Vision setting enabled in the Panasonic. I recommended you this back in December and I think you took it over.

[therewillbeblus]

Yes, thanks!