Marvel Comics on Film

[erok910]

Welcome to Collinwood was incredible, IMO obviously.

[Mr Sausage]

I assume he meant The Winter Soldier, because it is different from the other Captain America and Avengers films, being a paranoid conspiracy thriller with a harder edge, and which tends to be highly rated even by non-Marvel fans.

I've never liked The Winter Soldier all that much myself. I often hear the action praised, for example, but while the choreography is fine the editing cuts it to ribbons and the camera work is palsied, and that frustrates me. I wish the Russos, or I guess the second unit/whoever handles the action at Marvel, had gone more John Wick and less Michael Bay. But the Wick movies hadn't had their pervasive influence on action yet (I think the first one was released the same year as Winter Soldier), so we get this leftover mid-2000s Michaey Bay, Jason Bourne style to the action.

On the other hand, I really enjoyed the Infinity War/Endgame pairing, and to a lesser extent Civil War--far more than the Whedons or the first two Captain Americas, anyway.

[The Curious Sofa]

I'm far more curious about the Russo's adaptation of Simon Stålenhag's The Electric State for Netflix. It's the best of Stålenhag's books and I hope that 300 million budget is all up there on the screen as this lends itself to some major world building.

[cdnchris]

It might be desperate or creatively bankrupt, but given the pathetic attempt at analogy (above), how is it actually either of those those to... (re)hire a good actor and the directors who made the 'best' (and most financially lucrative) films?

That's good business sense, and how the casting/hiring process is supposed to work.

I'm legit confused here, as I'm not sure what analogy I was "pathetically" making to trigger you. Not even sure how I was making an analogy, if I'm being honest. But to clarify, I have no problem with the Russos, and I guess it's on me if it didn't come through that I think that's a good choice. But casting Downey Jr, who has already played a significant character and is a fan favorite, is nothing more than a lazy attempt to pump box office after several less than stellar entries (which you suggest), instead of maybe putting the effort in other areas. This just suggests to me they'll be doing the bare minimum elsewhere. I'm not saying he's not a good casting choice, I'm sure he'll be great in the role. And I've been a big fan of his for a long time, so I'm happy he'll be making bank from this. But I'm sure other actors would have been great as well.

On the other hand, if you mean one of their five non-MCU films, then I'm equally stumped.

Oddly, outside of their Arrested Development stuff, I can't think of any non-Marvel things they've done that I have liked. I really hated Collinwood as well, though it's been a couple decades, so maybe I should give it another go.

But to clarify, Winter Soldier was the film i was referring to, which apparently I alone think is one of the better Marvel films. It could be that I really vibed with the 70's political paranoia thriller aspect, down to casting Redford.

[swo17]

Hey, they were also involved with Community and Happy Endings!

[J M Powell]

On the other hand, if you mean one of their five non-MCU films, then I'm equally stumped.

Oddly, outside of their Arrested Development stuff, I can't think of any non-Marvel things they've done that I have liked. I really hated Collinwood as well, though it's been a couple decades, so maybe I should give it another go.

But to clarify, Winter Soldier was the film i was referring to, which apparently I alone think is one of the better Marvel films. It could be that I really vibed with the 70's political paranoia thriller aspect, down to casting Redford.

You're not alone—I think it's the best Marvel film, period (perhaps tied with Ragnarok). But I also think it's a close call: all four of the Russo Marvel films are among the better ones, all easily making the top 10, so it's at least not abundantly obvious which one someone is referring to if they say one of them is significantly better than the others. Rotten Tomatoes may not be the best metric here, but Infinity War has an 85% fresh rating, both their Captain Americas are at 90%, and Endgame at 94%.

As to their non-Marvel output, I agree, though perhaps I expressed it badly: I would be stumped if I had to figure out which one of them someone could possibly prefer over their Marvel films (because none of the ones I've seen was any good at all).

[The Narrator Returns]

Endgame may have brought together a whole universe of superheroes, but that's nothing compared to how the Russos previously brought together you and me and Dupree.

[ntnon]

It might be desperate or creatively bankrupt, but given the pathetic attempt at analogy (above), how is it actually either of those those to... (re)hire a good actor and the directors who made the 'best' (and most financially lucrative) films?

That's good business sense, and how the casting/hiring process is supposed to work.

I'm legit confused here, as I'm not sure what analogy I was "pathetically" making to trigger you.

No, not you - the one cited before you. Sorry, probably worded it poorly.

This:

Marvel World

That article just repeats every tired commonplace about Marvel we've heard for years, and worse, repeats them in the pompous and self-conscious prose of someone who feels they have important insights to deliver... Too bad it bungles it. Does anyone outside the author find those examples convincing? The Avengers resemble Hollywood in that they show powerful, ego-driven people "wrangling for control"? That's any organization. Hell, that's 50% of the group projects I was assigned in school. Deciding who should comprise and or lead the Avengers is like the casting process? Sounds like the hiring process in general. Or, again, any group project I was involved with...or picking sports teams, for that matter. As for government oversight being a "handy analogy" for corporate oversight--it's not an analogy when the two things are literally the same. It's like calling the Roman inquisition a good analogy for the Spanish inquisition. Utterly unrevealing.

All the evidence in that paragraph boils down to noticing the Avengers is, broadly speaking, an organization, and so is Hollywood, and then furiously building a castle in the sand.

[ntnon]

..I have no problem with the Russos, and I guess it's on me if it didn't come through that I think that's a good choice. But casting Downey Jr, who has already played a significant character and is a fan favorite, is nothing more than a lazy attempt to pump box office after several less than stellar entries (which you suggest), instead of maybe putting the effort in other areas.

I agree. And my point was less that it's a good idea and more that it is (largely) an unsurprising one. Downey and the Russos are popular and make money. Disney wants the MCU to be popular and make money, therefore-

I'm concerned that the likely budgets will now have to be more extreme with so much earmarked for directors and one actor, but there's the possibility that they'll be inclined to invest heavily rather than skimp.

The peculiarities of the political moment(s) that Disney (and the MCU) find themselves caught up in makes all such decisions - esp. plot, cast - tough to navigate. To correct course from Quantumania and Love & Thunder and The Marvels is not as easy as 'better writing', because part of the (perceived) failure is, in some form, to some people: 'women'. I do not envy whomever is tasked to plot and script the next few entries.

This just suggests to me they'll be doing the bare minimum elsewhere. I'm not saying he's not a good casting choice, I'm sure he'll be great in the role. And I've been a big fan of his for a long time, so I'm happy he'll be making bank from this. But I'm sure other actors would have been great as well.

Definitely agree with that, too.

I certainly hope that the scope narrows soon - fewer AVENGERS! and more solo films. Maybe Gambit, maybe a new Magneto, maybe even Adam Warlock or Howard the Duck.

[Never Cursed]

Fascinating Forbes article describing both the financial wizardry involved in producing one of the recent film in the UK and the dire financial state of the MCU

[yoloswegmaster]

In a show of further creative decline, Marvel hires the Russo Brothers to direct the next 2 Avengers films, with Robert Downey Jr. returning to play Doctor Doom

As if the creative decline wasn't apparent enough, there are plans to bring back Chris Evans to the MCU

[Monterey Jack]

Who's betting on Scarlett Johansson announcing her return within the next three months?

Evans is literally the THIRD dead & buried MCU hero brought back from the grave after a fitting and emotional sendoff. It reeks of desperation.

[Matt]

It is very true to superhero comics in that no one ever really dies.

Marvel is pretty desperate for another hit, and it ain't gonna be Captain America: Brave New World or Thunderbolts. Before Deadpool and Wolverine (and aside from the Sony Spider-Man movies), Avengers: Endgame was their last billion-dollar movie. If you believe the reported figures, The Marvels only made about $200 million worldwide off a $275 million dollar budget. And they are probably bleeding money from the Disney+ series of which there are SIX new ones coming in 2025.

[Mr Sausage]

I don’t know how Marvel earns money from their Disney+ series, but this year’s Agatha All Along series, their sequel to Wandavision, is apparently a big hit for them on the service.

I actually watched it—the only Marvel series I’ve watched—but only because I wanted to see Aubrey Plaza as a gay witch. So of course she’s in, like, four episodes total.

[dx23]

Who's betting on Scarlett Johansson announcing her return within the next three months?

Evans is literally the THIRD dead & buried MCU hero brought back from the grave after a fitting and emotional sendoff. It reeks of desperation.

Captain America really never died in the films. Just got old. Scarlett has reappeared multiple times as Black Widow in the animated What if series, which I feel it's going to be the way they are bringing her back.

It is very true to superhero comics in that no one ever really dies.

Marvel is pretty desperate for another hit, and it ain't gonna be Captain America: Brave New World or Thunderbolts. Before Deadpool and Wolverine (and aside from the Sony Spider-Man movies), Avengers: Endgame was their last billion-dollar movie. If you believe the reported figures, The Marvels only made about $200 million worldwide off a $275 million dollar budget. And they are probably bleeding money from the Disney+ series of which there are SIX new ones coming in 2025.

I believe the rumors of Marvel's failures are more bs than anything else. Every single film they've done, including the Marvels, has made money for them. Same as the TV shows. The problem is that as many things in today's U.S.A., their product has come across the crosshairs of idiot right wingers who monetize hate on youtube and have a legion of parrot followers. Agatha was extremely successful to them. So is What if, Hawkeye, Ms Marvel, Loki and Moon Knight. The only ones that didn't do as well as expected were Echo (released this past January), Secret Invasion and She-Hulk. Echo wasn't promoted at all, so that failure falls in Marvel's hands. Secret Invasion had a lousy story, unnecessary deaths and the use of AI for their intro. They should have actually waited on that one and made it a feature film adapting the actual story from the comics, which was one of the best ones of the past 20 years. As for She-Hulk, yes, some of their CGI was shit, and that was due to Marvel running the VFX team to the ground, but the rest of the hate... well that was all right wing culture war bullshit. Let's start with people that were complaining about a female Hulk just existing. The same people who were complaining about She-Hulk are the same ones that realized on Season 4 of the Boys that the show was making fun of them and then they started complaining that it was a good show till it went "woke".

Marvel is coming up with new series for the next few years and I don't see anything wrong with it as they have to create content (hate using that word) for the Disney+ streaming service. Funny thing is that one their best shows isn't even on Disney+. It's on Hulu and it's Hit Monkey. The show has 2 seasons and it's the only one that survived the Kevin Feige takeover.

[Monterey Jack]

I believe the rumors of Marvel's failures are more bs than anything else. Every single film they've done, including the Marvels, has made money for them.

You sure about that...?

[yoloswegmaster]

I believe the rumors of Marvel's failures are more bs than anything else. Every single film they've done, including the Marvels, has made money for them.

You sure about that...?

But where did all these kills come from?

[dx23]

Remember reading somewhere that the cost for the Marvels wasn't as high as it was reported and that it broke even, not at a loss. Of course, Hollywood accounting probably will make it a loss for eternity. Still, the point is that Marvel isn't doing as bad as it was reported by the culture wars idiots who make a living on hating on any project that doesn't star a white American male.

[Walter Kurtz]

Or maybe these "idiots" just don't like superhero movies. As Alan Moore said a few years back, "“Hundreds of thousands of adults lining up to see characters and situations that had been created to entertain the 12-year-old boys—and it was always boys—of 50 years ago. I didn’t really think that superheroes were adult fare."

Alan Moore. That name sounds familiar.

[Farley Flavors]

Remember reading somewhere that the cost for the Marvels wasn't as high as it was reported and that it broke even, not at a loss.

Several publications printed vastly underestimated costs for the film ($130m in Vanity Fair, $200m on Deadline, $250m in Variety) so I guess it's possible you read an article which took the figures from one of those.

It lost a fortune. Wiki claims it is (adjusted for inflation) the third biggest box-office bomb of all time, behind John Carter and The Lone Ranger.

Here's the Forbes article which confirms the $374m budget:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinere ... 4-million/

[Monterey Jack]

Still, the point is that Marvel isn't doing as bad as it was reported by the culture wars idiots who make a living on hating on any project that doesn't star a white American male.

...and there it is...

[dx23]

Remember reading somewhere that the cost for the Marvels wasn't as high as it was reported and that it broke even, not at a loss.

Several publications printed vastly underestimated costs for the film ($130m in Vanity Fair, $200m on Deadline, $250m in Variety) so I guess it's possible you read an article which took the figures from one of those.

It lost a fortune. Wiki claims it is (adjusted for inflation) the third biggest box-office bomb of all time, behind John Carter and The Lone Ranger.

Here's the Forbes article which confirms the $374m budget:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinere ... 4-million/

Funny thing is that John Carter killed the career of Taylor Kitch as the next big Hollywood star, but the film has now a cult following because is not bad at all. Disney really fucked up the marketing on that one.

Getting the topic back to Marvel, there seem to be 5 projects that are already getting controversy or are closed to being canned. Ironheart and Wonder Man are already getting hate online (no need to guess why). Same with Eyes on Wakanda, but the hate has more to do with the fact that Disney isn't recasting T'Challa. Armor Wars and Blade seem to be in production limbo, with the former being debated internally at Disney to be a film instead of a TV series and the latter with script issues and the resurgence of Wesley Snipes as Blade in the Deadpool film. As a comic nerd, I look forward to all of these series/films but again, it may saturate the market before the next Marvel movies come in.

[knives]

And here I’ll just be comfortably be watching Creature Cammandos which is just silly fun.

[dx23]

And here I’ll just be comfortably be watching Creature Cammandos which is just silly fun.

Doing the same, but have caught already the wind of the Snyderverse cult to try to ruin my experience

[knives]

Good thing I just don’t use the internet. Makes life easier and happier.