Sight & Sound

[beamish14]

I enjoy Shawshank. I'm certainly no snob! The Thing (1982) should be top 25 in S+S imho. I might have seen that 60x!!

But I find Shawshank rather one-dimensional. Do rewatches really bring more depth/nuance? And how long has the damn thing been at #1 on IMBD?

I’ve always had a pet theory that Shawshank’s immense popularity can be attributed to it being a weepie aimed at men.

I respect it, but its endurance has always baffled me, too. It’s been in the IMDB top 10 since 1996, at least

[swo17]

And most of the votes that landed it there haven't been touched since, which is why it's not going anywhere

[therewillbeblus]

I don't love the film, but I think its placement is reflective of the ratio of what mass audiences want to get out of cinema without giving too much of themselves to it. It's an incredibly safe movie that manages to hit all the markers without overdoing any of them; a compromised version of multiple genres, demanding little of the viewer's emotional investment and providing a multifaceted payoff of Greatest Hits. So it never risks leaning too hard into the brutality of the most depressing prison films, or getting too romantic with its documentation of male friendship, or becoming too destabilizing with its lightly-produced 'twists/reveals' as some mysteries/thrillers do, or get too deep with its existential posturing (opting for rather simple quotes; i.e. "Get busy living or get busy dying," oft-quoted by many non-cinephile Gen Xers in my life), or become too drawn out while still maintaining the scope of an 'epic' just through an economically-told narrative, or becoming cartoonish but still taking some opportunities to showcase some 'fun' in prison with a prank or two, and then giving us a happy ending to boot. It's almost impressive at how few risks the movie takes as it incorporates aspects of so many films that choose to execute their ideas in full-measures, and yet the film comes across as being very 'full' to most viewers because of all the dishes it samples, repackages, and supplies in sequence.

[hearthesilence]

I’ve always had a pet theory that Shawshank’s immense popularity can be attributed to it being a weepie aimed at men.

That pretty much applies to Frank Darabont's first three films, the only ones I've seen so far. The Green Mile, The Majestic...IIRC he's the only other filmmaker besides Orson Welles to have both of their first two features nominated for Best Picture. (The idea of putting those two Darabont films in the same league as Welles's films makes me want to retch.) Shawshank is fine, but the next two just got cornier and more simplistic, and I remember Roger Ebert eating it up, likening him to the next Frank Capra. It probably doesn't help that I'm not a big Capra fan, but there's at least a couple of Capra's films that I find very interesting despite his shortcomings.

[Drucker]

The Majestic was the first film I saw in theater and immediately thought was terrible.

[hearthesilence]

Perhaps this proud patriotic hymn to America was sung in a key that made you uncomfortable.

[tolbs1010]

I’ve always had a pet theory that Shawshank’s immense popularity can be attributed to it being a weepie aimed at men.

Yet women also really love this film. Past girlfriends, aunts, female colleagues...they have all mentioned it as a favorite. There is something about men in prison that is fascinating/moving to a sizable section of the female viewing public. The show Oz, the reality show Lockup, and other male-centric prison based movies score pretty well with female viewers. Shawshank touches on some of the harsh realities but with a patina of hope and reassurance that gives it re-watchability and a saintly glow that sits well with more mainstream film fans of both sexes. It's the kind of film that the popcorn movie crowd includes on a list of favorites as the weightier choice.

And it's a good film. I would choose it over that year's Best Picture winner, but I'm really surprised there isn't more love/respect for that other Best Picture nominee from 1994: Quiz Show. It's almost forgotten. Paul Attanasio's script, and I say this with no intended hyperbole, is one of the best ever. A small footnote in media history made into an entertaining treatise on integrity, fame, and how television became the Pied Piper of corporate/political interests. Career-best performance from Turturro. Fiennes at the top of his game. Outstanding supporting performances from Scofield, Paymer, Azaria, and Johann Carlo. Scorsese having some fun in his small role. Rob Morrow is also very good despite an exaggerated Boston accent on a few lines. Easily Redford's best film as a Director. Can we get a freaking blu ray release of this already?

[hearthesilence]

Quiz Show is good. Pulp Fiction is by far my favorite of the nominees that year, but if you took that out of the running, I'd go for Quiz Show.

Quite a few great films were actually released (or finished) in 1994 - notably epics and those that deal with multiple parallel storylines:

Sátántangó [Béla Tarr]
Blue (1993)/White/Red [Krzysztof Kieslowski]
The Chartres Series [Stan Brakhage] (really needs to be seen projected in a theater to have the whole concept come into complete fruition)
Hoop Dreams [Steve James]
L'eau froide [Olivier Assayas]
Chungking Express [Wong Kar-wai]
US Go Home [Claire Denis]
Exotica [Atom Egoyan]
Pulp Fiction [Quentin Tarantino]

[beamish14]

Quiz Show is good. Pulp Fiction is by far my favorite of the nominees that year, but if you took that out of the running, I'd go for Quiz Show.

Quite a few great films were actually released (or finished) in 1994 - notably epics and those that deal with multiple parallel storylines:

Sátántangó [Béla Tarr]
Blue (1993)/White/Red [Krzysztof Kieslowski]
The Chartres Series [Stan Brakhage] (really needs to be seen projected in a theater to have the whole concept come into complete fruition)
Hoop Dreams [Steve James]
L'eau froide [Olivier Assayas]
Chungking Express [Wong Kar-wai]
US Go Home [Claire Denis]
Exotica [Atom Egoyan]
Pulp Fiction [Quentin Tarantino]

I’ll add Tom Noonan’s stunning What Happened Was…, Charles Burnett’s The Glass Shield (although it didn’t get a commercial release until the following year) and Spike Lee’s Crooklyn to that list

[therewillbeblus]

U.S. Go Home for the win. Too bad music rights will forever keep it from the wide exposure it deserves

[pistolwink]

FWIW, a few folks did vote for Shawshank Redemption in the S&S poll last year:

Directors:
- Alex Lehmann
- Michael Schultz
- Rajkumar Hirani

Critics:
- Amon Warmann
- Whelan Barzey
- Jason Dorwart
- Adam Gonet

About the same # voted for that other IMDB favorite, The Dark Knight.

It'd be funny to put head-to-head the films in the S&S top 250 that don't make the IMDB top 250 and the films in the IMDB 250 that didn't make the S&S 250. Beau travail vs. Léon: The Professional?

[Ashirg]

I found another version of such compilation job, which has 30 more lines. I suspect that some ballots are missing 1 entry in some ballots, I found one for Adrienne McKibbins who is missing Gangs of Wasseypur.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 1086363162

Thank you! It was a good starting point. I also found 2 films that were missing from spreadsheets no matter who votes for them - The Ladies Man and Three Colours Red

Here is the list organized by how many votes each film got -
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

And here's the combined ranking of 1021 films that received 4 or more votes -
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

[furbicide]

Great work, on both! The latter is a particularly useful resource.

[bad future]

I found another version of such compilation job, which has 30 more lines. I suspect that some ballots are missing 1 entry in some ballots, I found one for Adrienne McKibbins who is missing Gangs of Wasseypur.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 1086363162

Thank you! It was a good starting point. I also found 2 films that were missing from spreadsheets no matter who votes for them - The Ladies Man and Three Colours Red

Here is the list organized by how many votes each film got -
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

And here's the combined ranking of 1021 films that received 4 or more votes -
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Working from the file originally posted by dekadetia, I've been sporadically working through the ballots and checking ones that don't have an even 10 against the BFI site, adding missing films when found. I'd also noticed the weird bug with The Ladies Man and Red, but there have been a lot of random other films missing from various ballots; about two dozen in the lists I've worked through (just names A-F so far.) Are any of these spreadsheets believed to have all the films from every ballot? If so, I can forego the rest of my editing! And if not, I'm happy to share what I've done so far if it's of any use.

One amusing thing I've noted is a couple ballots have 11 films because they were allowed two films in one slot (two Merry Melodies shorts for Pete Docter, and someone else voted for Jean de Florette/Manon des sources) but Atom Egoyan seems to have simply miscounted? In his comments he refers to having chosen 10, even though there are 11 and he did a separate writeup for each one! Cute tbh.

[dekadetia]

Are any of these spreadsheets believed to have all the films from every ballot? If so, I can forego the rest of my editing! And if not, I'm happy to share what I've done so far if it's of any use.

I can't speak for any other spreadsheets but I appreciate what you're doing -- I moved quickly with mine in the hopes that others might refine. Don't hesitate to share!

[bad future]

Here's the spreadsheet as it stands now, with only ballots from voter names A-G amended. For some reason the app I'm using wouldn't save as xlsx even though it could open it fine, so this is a .ods file -- hope that's compatible enough!

https://mega.nz/file/xMUjCLAa#pDaANWM3g ... FuHHjM15tk

[Ashirg]

Working from the file originally posted by dekadetia, I've been sporadically working through the ballots and checking ones that don't have an even 10 against the BFI site, adding missing films when found. I'd also noticed the weird bug with The Ladies Man and Red, but there have been a lot of random other films missing from various ballots; about two dozen in the lists I've worked through (just names A-F so far.) Are any of these spreadsheets believed to have all the films from every ballot? If so, I can forego the rest of my editing! And if not, I'm happy to share what I've done so far if it's of any use.

One amusing thing I've noted is a couple ballots have 11 films because they were allowed two films in one slot (two Merry Melodies shorts for Pete Docter, and someone else voted for Jean de Florette/Manon des sources) but Atom Egoyan seems to have simply miscounted? In his comments he refers to having chosen 10, even though there are 11 and he did a separate writeup for each one! Cute tbh.

I went through the spreadsheet and when the ballot wasn't equal to 10 votes, I went to Sight and Sound page and verified and added titles if needed. Martin Scorsese voted for 15 titles, but I guess when you're him, you make your own rules. I also expanded votes for Apu Trilogy and Bill Douglas trilogy into separate films and Twin Peaks the series gave me a headache how to tally up those votes. And split Ruun Nuur's TIE vote for The Passion of Joan of Arc and Mother Joan of the Angels. There might be a title or 2 missing if they put 11 titles on the ballot, but examples you used are all counted.

Another interesting note is when a director votes for their own movies - Michael Snow only put 4 movies on the ballot and 3 of them are his own and Tsai Ming-liang voted for Goodbye, Dragon Inn.

[bad future]

James Benning voted for 10 of his own, which only could have been better if he'd dedicated each slot to a single sky. (Sadly, Ten Skies not even among his selections.)

[Ashirg]

Bill from TSPDT let me know about this post from one of the critics, Jacques Aumont. Looks like his ballot is bogus.

[Lighthouse]

It's quite sad that (at least it seems so) too many voters misused the list for a kind of "political" agenda, a kind of crusade against a "white male canon" of films.

These kind of lists should just be made with the honest intention to name only those films the voters love the most.

If Benning really thinks that his films are the best, then his list is okay, otherwise he is only a "fun" voter. Same for all those list which vote only or mostly for films by women. etc

[exidor]

If Benning really thinks that his films are the best, then his list is okay, otherwise he is only a "fun" voter. Same for all those list which vote only or mostly for films by women. etc

What about those who vote only or mostly for films by men?

[tenia]

As others have said : don't worry though, there still only are what, 6 women directors in the top 100 ? Men should be fine, except if Varda, Akerman and Denis are already too much to celebrate for them.

[rrenault]

I counted 12 female-directed films in the combined (critics and directors votes put together) top 100, but that includes repeat appearances by certain directors.

[MichaelB]

It's quite sad that (at least it seems so) too many voters misused the list for a kind of "political" agenda, a kind of crusade against a "white male canon" of films.

These kind of lists should just be made with the honest intention to name only those films the voters love the most.

And how do you know that this wasn't the case? This argument is the polling equivalent of the "Why won't they release only what I want?" thread, in that it completely fails to acknowledge that once you make a proactive effort to shift the contributors away from the overwhelmingly white, male, middle-class and Anglophone (or at least Western European) groups that fuelled the 1952-2002 polls, you're inevitably going to shift the general taste in a different direction too. This notion that people should carry on mulishly voting for the same familiar "canonical" titles just because they've been invited to join the group is bizarre to me - surely the whole point of the exercise was to broaden its frame of reference?

A case in point: neither of my 2012 or 2002 lists included any American films - unless you count Once Upon a Time in the West as quasi-American - and I know for a fact that this wasn't for any pre-calculated polemical reason; it's just that when I enumerated the films that meant the most to me personally, they tended to hail from my own side of the Atlantic. For whatever reason, they speak to me on a more fundamental level, and I have absolutely no problem believing that a similar process is at work with regard to other voters - and if they have little in common with me, their choice of films is inevitably going to have little in common with mine.

[Maltic]

Benning and Snow could've made an agreement to swap votes instead.