Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Other Boutique Labels
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
Re: Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films
These kinds of changes have to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, but the one party that shouldn't be faulted in such a situation is the DVD label. If you don't like that aspect of the NotLD release, blame Savini, not TT.
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- Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:29 am
Re: Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films
I don't blame Twilight Time per se.
In general, I feel fidelity to what was released back in the day should have priority over a decision made 20 years later. Or, you know, present BOTH options.
In general, I feel fidelity to what was released back in the day should have priority over a decision made 20 years later. Or, you know, present BOTH options.
- Moe Dickstein
- Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:19 pm
Re: Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films
From what I remember the video didn't reflect the theatrical look either, it was standard practice in those days to boost brightness so the VHS/DVD master is not an accurate indicator of the original theatrical look anyway, its just what people got used to.
- dwk
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm
Re: Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films
I'd blame Sony not Savini since he didn't have anything to do with the changes. As I understand it, Frank Prinzi gave some notes, over the telephone, on what he wanted and Sony went ahead and created the new master without bringing him or Savini in to either supervise or approve the changes.
- Moe Dickstein
- Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:19 pm
Re: Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films
Savini did approve of it when he saw it
- dwk
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm
Re: Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films
Like I said earlier, Savini was fine with the changes but I don't think he saw the transfer until he got the Blu-ray.
- Lowry_Sam
- Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:35 pm
- Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Twilight Time
Well I guess I'm not going to have an opportunity to revise my opinion of SAE/TT. I shopped around for a bit on the site to add a soundtrack or 2 & went to the checkout, got a prompt to re-enter my email, when I did, The Big Heat disappeared from my order. I called them & they said they're all sold out. While the guy I talked to was courteous, he never said he'd take my name or anything in the event that their "numbers are off again." I guess poor customer service is the rule these days. So now, not only will I not buy Body Heat, I won't buy anything else from the over $100 order I was going to place.
For the record, here is the reply I received about how SAE's website works (and the fact that an item that you think you are buying can disappear from your order before you actually hit the final confirm button:
For the record, here is the reply I received about how SAE's website works (and the fact that an item that you think you are buying can disappear from your order before you actually hit the final confirm button:
Chris – it was on inventory and it was me who you talked to – there is nothing I can do because someone else beat you to it. Having it in your cart does not secure the purchase until you complete the transaction. I am sorry that you did not get it but this happens in our rare section where there is only one copy of an item. The website runs fine and did exactly as it should have and the customer service aspect I tried explaining to you on the phone and now by email. I can’t stop you from complaining on the message boards but please be sure to include my explanation if you do. I am sorry for your frustration but it has sold out. With apologies - Ed
- tojoed
- Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:47 am
- Location: Cambridge, England
Re: Twilight Time
Seems fair enough to me. If it sold out before you paid, it's just bad luck.
- Feego
- Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:30 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Twilight Time
I believe that is pretty much standard procedure at most if not all online stores. An item does not disappear from the website until it is paid for, so even if you have something in your cart, it is still up for grabs to all other customers.
- PfR73
- Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:07 pm
Re: Twilight Time
Yeah, that happens with most internet retailers. It could even happen with Amazon. The cart is not a hold.
- Lowry_Sam
- Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:35 pm
- Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Twilight Time
It's not just "bad luck", this is the second time I've tried to purchase it & wasted time doing so. It leaves a foul taste, to have your hopes sparked after missing it the first time. You would have thought w/ 90 copies, they would have posted a "1 per customer" policy like with Body double. Anyway, time & effort wasted trying to buy something that wasn't available is not an enjoyable experience, but to have it happen to you twice while attempting to buy one title is a bit much, particularly when there could be a "wait list" or something, like with Amazon's daily specials, not to mention a better cart system that registers an item as "allocated", so that when you see it in your cart, you know it's actually there & how much time you have left in order to complete your order (I also had to have my password emailed to me, since I haven't used the site since the last time The Big Heat sold out & I had forgotten in the interim).tojoed wrote:Seems fair enough to me. If it sold out before you paid, it's just bad luck.
- tojoed
- Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:47 am
- Location: Cambridge, England
Re: Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films
Well, now I think it's not bad luck, but carelessness on your part. if you don't have a simple way of
remembering passwords for internet retailers you are going to be disadvantaged when trying to order something that's in short supply.
remembering passwords for internet retailers you are going to be disadvantaged when trying to order something that's in short supply.
- Lowry_Sam
- Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:35 pm
- Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films
I do....for all the retailers where I normally shop, but as this was going to be my first TT/SAE purchase, I'm left with a deepdiscount taste in my mouth & not inclined to return.tojoed wrote:Well, now I think it's not bad luck, but carelessness on your part. if you don't have a simple way of
remembering passwords for internet retailers you are going to be disadvantaged when trying to order something that's in short supply.
- Gregory
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:07 pm
Re: Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films
The Big Heat was available for 16 months.
If it were DeepDiscount (or ImportCDs) the problem would likely have been far worse: the product page saying "In Stock," followed by a long backorder and eventual cancelation (or leaving the order in limbo for a year or more, in DD's case, unless the customer initiates cancelation). I've never seen anything like the kind of shopping cart "that registers an item as allocated." Doesn't seem like it would help anyone except those who waited until the last possible moment.
If it were DeepDiscount (or ImportCDs) the problem would likely have been far worse: the product page saying "In Stock," followed by a long backorder and eventual cancelation (or leaving the order in limbo for a year or more, in DD's case, unless the customer initiates cancelation). I've never seen anything like the kind of shopping cart "that registers an item as allocated." Doesn't seem like it would help anyone except those who waited until the last possible moment.
- Lowry_Sam
- Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:35 pm
- Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films
Well if it had actually been available for that long, I didn't know about it until more recently (more like 4 -6 months ago). I saw TT's releases, but they didn't interest me, so I stopped paying attention, then I found out they have something I'd like on blu-ray & read up on the quality of their discs & business model and became wary, but was compelled to grab a copy upon seeing an announcement that only x # of copies are left & decide to bite the bullet.......long story short, the business model, which I see as akin to concert ticket sellers (and I have stopped going to rock concerts because of this), is certainly good for ebay resellers/scalpers, but not for people who actually want a copy of the best available version of a film.Gregory wrote:The Big Heat was available for 16 months.
If it were DeepDiscount (or ImportCDs) the problem would likely have been far worse: the product page saying "In Stock," followed by interminable backorder and eventual cancelation (or leaving the order in limbo for a year or more, in DD's case, unless the customer initiates cancelation). I've never seen anything like the kind of shopping cart "that registers an item as allocated." Doesn't seem like it would help anyone except those who waited until the last possible moment.
- Gregory
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:07 pm
Re: Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films
Here's my two cents. People protest too much about the limited-edition part of the business model. Most TT discs are not getting scooped up by scalpers. They're bought gradually by people who want to own the titles on Blu-ray. Those who wait too long do so at their peril. Some releases will probably never even sell out their run of 3,000 because demand is too low, and so TT will have to either slash prices before the license expires or lose money on unsold stock because demand for some of what they release is so low. Those that do sell out in a flash are pretty predictable and are an exception: the horror/thriller titles from cult directors. For those, it's a good idea to order as soon as possible. For the others, it's not a bad idea to order within the two or three months. Beyond that, you're taking your chances.
Not that anyone necessarily cares about parallel examples, but my inauguration into the sometimes frustrating world of limited pressings was in buying music, and I've gotten used to some scenarios that make TT seem easy and wonderful by comparison. Numbered vinyl runs of 300 or fewer copies, sometimes about $30-50 for one album, sometimes without an obvious place to order or reliable sources of info about what's forthcoming, and sometimes sold out as soon as or before it hits the stores. Will it be repressed in another run a year or three later? Who knows—wait and see. I've come to accept that I'll inevitably miss out on quite a bit.
Not that anyone necessarily cares about parallel examples, but my inauguration into the sometimes frustrating world of limited pressings was in buying music, and I've gotten used to some scenarios that make TT seem easy and wonderful by comparison. Numbered vinyl runs of 300 or fewer copies, sometimes about $30-50 for one album, sometimes without an obvious place to order or reliable sources of info about what's forthcoming, and sometimes sold out as soon as or before it hits the stores. Will it be repressed in another run a year or three later? Who knows—wait and see. I've come to accept that I'll inevitably miss out on quite a bit.
Last edited by Gregory on Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Moe Dickstein
- Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:19 pm
Re: Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films
Just as an addition to that with Sony, TT is REQUIRED to destroy all unsold product at the end of the three year term, no remainders allowed.
- dwk
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm
Re: Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films
So will TT slash prices, say, a week before their three year license is up, give away copies to people that order $100 worth of other releases, or not worry about recouping what they can before having to destroy unsold stock?
- Lowry_Sam
- Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:35 pm
- Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films
..or will they do what Apple did when the G4 Cubes didn't sell as well as they hoped, buy a remote plot in the desert somewhere & under the cover of night, dig a hole & bury them so that no one can find them.dwk wrote:So will TT slash prices, say, a week before their three year license is up, give away copies to people that order $100 worth of other releases, or not worry about recouping what they can before having to destroy unsold stock?
- Moe Dickstein
- Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:19 pm
Re: Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films
I don't think a decision has been made since the first license doesn't expire for around a year.
- captveg
- Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:28 pm
Re: Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films
I wonder if the current avenue of selling large chunks of the releases to TCM might be a way to hedge their bets with this situation. If on the last day before they would have to destroy a Sony release they sell all their remaining stock to TCM then they keep their agreement and people can still purchase them online via a retailer.Moe Dickstein wrote:Just as an addition to that with Sony, TT is REQUIRED to destroy all unsold product at the end of the three year term, no remainders allowed.
- Moe Dickstein
- Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:19 pm
Re: Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films
Could be, but I do know TCM isn't taking a whole lot of copies in general, very low hundreds for their biggest buy.
- EddieLarkin
- Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:25 am
Re: Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Olive Films
Don't see it happening with any of their Sony titles. If they can shift 3000 copies of The Left Hand of God in under 2 years, I'm sure there's nothing to worry about with stuff like Picnic and Bonjour Tristesse. Some of their Fox titles on the otherhand...
- perkizitore
- Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:29 pm
- Location: OOP is the only answer
Re: Twilight Time
I am sure this announcement has nothing to do with Arrow's massively improved and much more affordable upcoming releasepointless wrote:From TT's Facebook page:For those of you on a Brian De Palma kick...in the wake of Body Double only 600 copies of The Fury remain, and dwindling fast...