Business Models: Twilight Time vs. Other Boutique Labels

[knives]

Actually to import it is cheaper than domestically buying the TT version.

[swo17]

I am sure this announcement has nothing to do with Arrow's massively improved and much more affordable upcoming release

Obviously Arrow improving on the TT would be expected to have the opposite effect, i.e. it not being on the brink of selling out. Unless you're suggesting that TT are manufacturing this news because it's the only way they can get people to buy it?

[Matt]

Actually to import it is cheaper than domestically buying the TT version.

$31 shipped on Amazon.co.uk right now vs. $34.30 shipped for the TT.

[domino harvey]

I am sure this announcement has nothing to do with Arrow's massively improved and much more affordable upcoming release

Obviously Arrow improving on the TT would be expected to have the opposite effect, i.e. it not being on the brink of selling out. Unless you're suggesting that TT are manufacturing this news because it's the only way they can get people to buy it?

Surely the latter, no? And I agree, seems a bit suspect

[swo17]

Except that I have no problem believing that they would have sold 2500 copies by now. In fact, given De Palma's bankability, I'm surprised it's taken this long.

[EddieLarkin]

They make an announcement like this for every title that drops to around 500 remaining. And though sales of the title have slowed down considerably since it was first released, at the time the SAE cart showed that over half the run was gone within the first few weeks. So another 1000 sold over a 4 month period is hardly a stretch.

And I think Moe's point was that the Arrow release, regardless of price, is unavailable to the vast majority of American fans due to its region coding.

[Matt]

perkizitore's statement that the Arrow release is "improved" and "much more affordable" than the TT release is objectively true whether you're in the US or the UK. Not being region-free or not being willing to import are individual decisions that have no impact on the truth of that statement.

[perkizitore]

Actually to import it is cheaper than domestically buying the TT version.

$31 shipped on Amazon.co.uk right now vs. $34.30 shipped for the TT.

This is the RRP, I am sure that when other retailers start listing it nearer the release date, Amazon will drop the price accordingly (Van Gogh from MoC was originally priced at £19.99)

[EddieLarkin]

"Free", signed copies of The Disappearance are up now, for anyone interested.

perkizitore's statement that the Arrow release is "improved" and "much more affordable" than the TT release is objectively true whether you're in the US or the UK. Not being region-free or not being willing to import are individual decisions that have no impact on the truth of that statement.

Yes, no one is denying that the Arrow release has superior supplements and will likely have an improved transfer, and is of course cheaper. These are facts.

But perkizitore's implication that the warning announcement has been made due to the impending Arrow release, is thrown into doubt when one acknowledges the fact that the majority of TT's customer base do not have the ability to play the Region-B disc anyway.

That's all anyone's saying.

[Matt]

OK, I gotcha. I'm all caught up now.

[domino harvey]

Who, exactly, is the customer base for Twilight Time, then? Grandma?

[Moe Dickstein]

I can also say pretty solidly that TT is not following or basing strategy on what Arrow does very closely at all.

Domino: If Grandma is a big sountrack buff and knows SAE then yes, perhaps. So long as the business model is playing out and working and they are selling enough copies to keep licensing more films then it seems there is a customer base there, regardless of whom they are.

[EddieLarkin]

I'm not saying that TT target the average buyer, but pop over to Blu-ray.com and even HTF, and you'll find plenty of American Blu-ray fanatics to whom the idea of going region free is either pointless or completely alien. These are TT's customer bsae, and they are region locked.

[knives]

So format fetishists?

[Moe Dickstein]

Let's say you're an American consumer who for better or worse doesn't have an interest in watching any foreign language films? That doesn't describe nearly anyone here but it does describe a lot of people elsewhere.

What is the benefit to those consumers of going multi region, beyond some slightly cheaper releases from overseas?

I fear this discussion might belong back in the "other" thread...

[domino harvey]

What is the benefit to those consumers of going multi region, beyond some slightly cheaper releases from overseas?

I would wager at least half of my overseas purchases are of American films, because they were either unavailable in R1 or available in a better edition elsewhere, not because they were "cheaper." You're speaking flippantly of something I don't think you've given much thought to...

[HJackson]

Let's say you're an American consumer who for better or worse doesn't have an interest in watching any foreign language films? That doesn't describe nearly anyone here but it does describe a lot of people elsewhere.

What is the benefit to those consumers of going multi region, beyond some slightly cheaper releases from overseas?

Imagine living without Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? on blu (if it can even be described as 'living').

[MichaelB]

There are loads of English-language films that are either only available in Region B or available in conspicuously superior editions.

Arrow's The Fury clearly wins hands down on points alone, and that's even before anyone's seen the transfer - and since that's a full-scale James White restoration and he has a reputation to protect, it would be surprising if it wasn't conspicuously superior.

[Cronenfly]

Nevertheless, if you are not averse to scalping, there is little doubt in my mind that one could find a buyer for a copy of the TT Fury for a pretty penny once it goes OOP (which is going to happen: it's down below 400 copies now already). The Arrow version will no doubt be superior, but I think it's a mistake to overestimate the number of region-free Blu buyers out there.

[knives]

As others have already said that is an absurd strawman. Many releases of english language films have only appeared in places like Spain and the UK (in fact all of my Spanish purchases beyond one boxset have been for studio pictures). This isn't even talking about the quality of the transfers or extras or anything like that. I had to go to a UK release for something as generically popular as the Hammer version of The Abominable Snowman. Even now for modern films released today the only way to get an uncut DVD of This Must be the Place is to order from Europe. Same thing last I checked for Joe Dante's The Hole. Neither of those are in any way specialty releases. I could go on and on with stuff like Marc Isaacs' films, until recently Backlash, The Black Windmill, and literally thousands more. This is the poorest argument imaginable.

[EddieLarkin]

Format fetishists or just baby boomer film fans, the one thing that seems to link the vast majority of TT customers is a willingness to join and post on (or just browse) forums such as Blu-ray.com, to keep informed about their releases and where to get them. This sort of savvy is essential when you consider that the releases are available from a single, very niche online outlet (up until very recently anyway). But regardless, these customers are primarily region locked. Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? just got mentioned, but here is a typical response I got from one of the most die hard TT customers I know when I tried to push the MoC release on him:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p ... count=1995" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Despite wanting WSSRH? very much, he is not interested in going region free. That sort of reasoning is rife amongst Blu-ray.com and HTF users, especially the North Americans (the Brits seem to be much more open to the idea).

[EddieLarkin]

Sorry, I'm lost now. Are we arguing that a lot of very popular American films are only available in Region-B (well duh), or are we debating the prevalence of region free amongst TT's customer base?

[domino harvey]

We are specifically targeting Moe's inarticulate declaration

[EddieLarkin]

Oh right, I see.

I'll say again: well duh. A region locked Golden age Hollywood buff is surely a depressing thing to be.

[jedgeco]

Despite wanting WSSRH? very much, he is not interested in going region free. That sort of reasoning is rife amongst Blu-ray.com and HTF users, especially the North Americans (the Brits seem to be much more open to the idea).

I imagine that there are lots of people who are film fans and enjoy watching Blu-rays, but don't care enough to go through the hassle of buying a new Blu-ray player (from a specialty outlet), shopping overseas, dealing with currency conversion, waiting ~2 weeks for something to show up in the mail, etc.

It's a big country, lots of people are lazy, and it's not like there aren't enough domestic releases to fill up one's time.