UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
- Finch
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
Added to OP, thanks bitsofme!
- EddieLarkin
- Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:25 am
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
Presumably that's just the 5.1? Opt for the more historically authentic mono instead, and problem solved, I recall no such issues when I listened to it.
- Finch
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
- Finch
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
Death Wish (Kino)
EDIT 2/6/23: See Geoff's review in post below
Regarding the US UHD of Crimes of the Future: a BR member confirmed that it has Dolby Vision. Someone else again thought the HDR10 presentation was very good and did not notice any compression issues (they had no DV setup). I haven't seen any feedback comparing it to Decal's BD yet. It's likely to be superseded by Second Sight's forthcoming release though.
EDIT 2/6/23: See Geoff's review in post below
Regarding the US UHD of Crimes of the Future: a BR member confirmed that it has Dolby Vision. Someone else again thought the HDR10 presentation was very good and did not notice any compression issues (they had no DV setup). I haven't seen any feedback comparing it to Decal's BD yet. It's likely to be superseded by Second Sight's forthcoming release though.
Last edited by Finch on Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Finch
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
Invaders from Mars (Ignite/Arrow) great review from Bill Chambers for the film and the UHD
Bill points out that the optical dissolves look rough but the rest of the presentation is splendid.
Geoff's take on Death Wish
He doesn't think this is from the original camera negative but a generation or two removed and it has not been restored. He does say though within those limitations it is a good disc and a lot better than the enclosed BD.
Bill points out that the optical dissolves look rough but the rest of the presentation is splendid.
Geoff's take on Death Wish
He doesn't think this is from the original camera negative but a generation or two removed and it has not been restored. He does say though within those limitations it is a good disc and a lot better than the enclosed BD.
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- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:49 pm
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
Well it seems like the Three Colors Trilogy won't be going in the reference column if the early word of mouth is anything to go by.
- yoloswegmaster
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:57 pm
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
Based on what, Svet's reviews? Strange that anyone around here would actually take his reviews seriously in this day and age.
- JSC
- Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 9:17 am
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
Reviews aside, if the screenshots are anything like I've been seeing there and elsewhere, I think
I'll hold onto the 2011 blu-ray. White in particular looks off.
I'll hold onto the 2011 blu-ray. White in particular looks off.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
The issues here are kind of the same as always :
- people are mixing up systemic and problematic issues with a particular case
- Svet in particular is using this as part of his crusade, in part because it's fueling a "US vs the rest of the world" rhetoric
- an older vastly debatable grading ends up being perceived as a proper reference
- in the end, a possibly debatable but also potentially very acceptable result ends up dismissed because of the larger overall issues regarding some labs' systemic ways of working, ie "if it's not you, then it's your brother".
This is not Eclair nor Ritrovata's job, guys.
- people are mixing up systemic and problematic issues with a particular case
- Svet in particular is using this as part of his crusade, in part because it's fueling a "US vs the rest of the world" rhetoric
- an older vastly debatable grading ends up being perceived as a proper reference
- in the end, a possibly debatable but also potentially very acceptable result ends up dismissed because of the larger overall issues regarding some labs' systemic ways of working, ie "if it's not you, then it's your brother".
This is not Eclair nor Ritrovata's job, guys.
- CSM126
- Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:22 am
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- Contact:
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
I never trust Svet because it’s usually pretty obvious he’s critiquing the way the film was shot, not the way it was transferred. If he thinks he could have done a better job behind the lens he gives the disc demerits. At least that’s how it reads to me whenever I try to parse his gobbledygook ESL-through-a-google-translate writing.
- Ribs
- Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:14 pm
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
Also, the previous transfers are extremely lousy by modern standards. It was fairly universally agreed the French releases looked great and the new restorations looked great when screened theatrically last year, he’s obviously just totally inept and there’s a reason we have basically stopped discussing him outside of the siloed off forum here. Just useless, I personally don’t see why Criterion or any label should continue to send him titles when he is probably the most widely seen/consulted review that anyone will see and he regulary makes such total botched calls like this that will surely dissuade tons of people who for some reason take him as an expert.
There will probably be substantially more discussion about Veronique when that comes along, which has a much harsher grade more akin to Dekalog V/Short Film About Killing. I have been assured this is correct as well - though I think it’s a really, really pronounced difference from the earlier release in the way that these are more kind of slight adjustments.
There will probably be substantially more discussion about Veronique when that comes along, which has a much harsher grade more akin to Dekalog V/Short Film About Killing. I have been assured this is correct as well - though I think it’s a really, really pronounced difference from the earlier release in the way that these are more kind of slight adjustments.
- Finch
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
Didn't the DoP say somewhere that the new transfers more accurately represent what he and Kieslowski intended the films to look like? And was it a Hiventy press release that the quote appeared in, or a news piece?
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
Presumably "the DoP" is Sławomir Idziak, as Edward Kłosiński and Piotr Sobociński (who shot White and Red) are both dead.
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- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:49 pm
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
In either case, I'll probably wait and see how Curzon's 4K release turns out before buying these. Out of convenience, it'll be between the Curzon and the Potemkine for me, but my gut tells me the Curzon Kieslowski 4Ks should be safe preorders.
- Finch
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
I completely forgot that the films had different cinematographers, and I didn't realise the latter two had passed on.
Aren't all new releases of the trilogy sourced from the same restorations, so if you don't like the colors in the new transfers you're not going to be truly happy with any of them (and it comes down to the best encode and whose extras and packaging you like best, where, right now, in regards to artwork and extras, the Criterion comes out on top for me, and by the time I decide whether to upgrade from their BDs or not, i.e. their late 2023 direct sale, we'll hopefully have some consensus on how faithful to the original theatrical presentations these restorations are).
Aren't all new releases of the trilogy sourced from the same restorations, so if you don't like the colors in the new transfers you're not going to be truly happy with any of them (and it comes down to the best encode and whose extras and packaging you like best, where, right now, in regards to artwork and extras, the Criterion comes out on top for me, and by the time I decide whether to upgrade from their BDs or not, i.e. their late 2023 direct sale, we'll hopefully have some consensus on how faithful to the original theatrical presentations these restorations are).
- dwk
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
Yeah, they are the same masters across all the releases (has Ariticial Eye/Curzon ever done their own transfers?)
How many competing 4K releases that use different masters are there? I assume nearly all are just different encodes based on the same master.
How many competing 4K releases that use different masters are there? I assume nearly all are just different encodes based on the same master.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
There has indeed only been 1 new set of 4K restorations, which explains why Potemkine and Criterion use the same set, and that it's expected Curzon/AE will also do. It's indeed not often movies end up with competing restorations, especially 4K ones sourced from OCN !
This means that differences will be down to encodes (or, possibly, HDR gradings).
This means that differences will be down to encodes (or, possibly, HDR gradings).
That's indeed the case. In their ITW on DVD Classik, Hiventy spoke of working with him for Blue and Véronique, which fits the movies he worked on.
- dwk
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
I actually just thought of a couple of cases of competing UHDs from different restorations, the main one being Suspiria. (The other ones that came to mind were situations where the German's rushed a UHD out using an inferior 4K master - Texas Chain Saw Massacre and An American Werewolf in London.)
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- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:43 am
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
wondering if it's worth upgrading Death Wish, given that the previous blu ray was apparently taken from a better source with less crush and more convincing colour grading.Finch wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:19 pmInvaders from Mars (Ignite/Arrow) great review from Bill Chambers for the film and the UHD
Bill points out that the optical dissolves look rough but the rest of the presentation is splendid.
Geoff's take on Death Wish
He doesn't think this is from the original camera negative but a generation or two removed and it has not been restored. He does say though within those limitations it is a good disc and a lot better than the enclosed BD.
think, and also Escape from Alcatraz, I'm considering of getting the cheap older blu ray releases and simply watching on a smaller TV.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
AFAIK, TCM is not even a new master, it's reusing the only existing 4K restoration (which can for instance be found in BD in the UK with Second Sight, albeit with corrections applied as there were multiple editing mistakes).dwk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:19 amI actually just thought of a couple of cases of competing UHDs from different restorations, the main one being Suspiria. (The other ones that came to mind were situations where the German's rushed a UHD out using an inferior 4K master - Texas Chain Saw Massacre and An American Werewolf in London.)
So even this one doesn't have competing restorations.
IIRC, Suspiria also doesn't have completely different restorations, but only different gradings of the same base scan.
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- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:49 pm
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
Was Cult Films' UHD of Suspiria any good?
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- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:49 pm
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
The Potemkine UHDs of the Three Colors Trilogy seem to have the same issues as StudioCanal's Breathless UHD with the bitrate inexplicably plummeting at random points in the film.
Look here: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x=52 ... &i=14&go=1
This applies specifically to stills 1 and 9. The others look fine to me.
Maybe it's just me, but I feel gaffes like this should justify replacement discs. I mean, come on...This should clearly qualify as a "my bad" situation a la only including SDH English subs on Curzon's Wings of Desire UHD.
Look here: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x=52 ... &i=14&go=1
This applies specifically to stills 1 and 9. The others look fine to me.
Maybe it's just me, but I feel gaffes like this should justify replacement discs. I mean, come on...This should clearly qualify as a "my bad" situation a la only including SDH English subs on Curzon's Wings of Desire UHD.
- EddieLarkin
- Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:25 am
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
It is horrificly bad, but most people don't notice because they sit too far away, watching on relatively small screens, and that probably goes for the people who produce and QC the discs. Few watch in "cinema" conditions, which is understandable for the average punter, but should be a requirement for those working on the disc. Even then though, some people are so ignorant as to how the image should look that they see everything as "grain", instead of being able to tell when they're actually looking at rampant compression noise.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
I think most people don't notice this because they don't indeed realise what is happening and can't notice it. Even on some dedicated, I remember having trouble explaining (even with the proper screencaps) this or that encode was showing blockiness. So it feels to me rather like a lack of tech knowledge than something else.
But then of course, the watching conditions can hide the issue on top of that.
In any case, yes, the encodes are rubbish.
But then of course, the watching conditions can hide the issue on top of that.
In any case, yes, the encodes are rubbish.
- dwk
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm
Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading
TCM isn't a new master? Jesus, even setting aside the poor encode on the UHD, there is almost no improvement over the BD.tenia wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:22 amAFAIK, TCM is not even a new master, it's reusing the only existing 4K restoration (which can for instance be found in BD in the UK with Second Sight, albeit with corrections applied as there were multiple editing mistakes).
So even this one doesn't have competing restorations.
IIRC, Suspiria also doesn't have completely different restorations, but only different gradings of the same base scan.
I know Suspiria had the same base scan, but I thought all the post scan work was different
Synapse is the preferred version, as it was the only one approved by Luciano Tovoli. (Though, I'd warn that Synapse's special features are really worthless. I'm not sure of the quality of the extras on Cult Film's release.)