Late Night Television

[flyonthewall2983]

Conan O'Brien's nightly TV show ending next year, but will start a weekly variety show for HBO Max after.

"In 1993 Johnny Carson gave me the best advice of my career: ‘As soon as possible, get to a streaming platform,'” O’Brien said. “I’m thrilled that I get to continue doing whatever the hell it is I do on HBO Max, and I look forward to a free subscription.”

[hearthesilence]

Conan O'Brien's nightly TV show ending next year, but will start a weekly variety show for HBO Max after.

"In 1993 Johnny Carson gave me the best advice of my career: ‘As soon as possible, get to a streaming platform,'” O’Brien said. “I’m thrilled that I get to continue doing whatever the hell it is I do on HBO Max, and I look forward to a free subscription.”

Re: Johnny Carson, he actually talked about this on Late Night right after Carson died. He told O'Brien "be yourself, it's the only way you'll succeed," which really was the best advice O'Brien had received (and especially wise because O'Brien pointed out that he never said "you WILL succeed" only that real success won't come about in any other way).

[hearthesilence]

A fan of Dennis Miller's first short-lived talk show (which was his main reason for leaving SNL) told me that the show was sabotaged right from the start because Leno's manager Helen Kushnick, who took over The Tonight Show as the executive producer, privately told desirable guests that they would be banned from their show if they ever appeared on Miller or Arsenio Hall's show. (Letterman was still on NBC at the time, so he wasn't competition.) Apparently this was indeed the case, and it sounds like NBC found out when two big country stars Travis Tritt and Trisha Yearwood were told they were banned for refusing to cancel their appearance on Arsenio - Tritt and Yearwood's manager responded by contacting NBC, and the network forcibly removed Kushnick from The Tonight Show, going as far as telling Leno he would be removed too if he didn't comply. (At the time he was struggling as the new host, and with subpar ratings he really didn't have any leverage.) It was already too late for Miller as his show had already been cancelled after just seven months, but he made his anger at Leno very clear. The two had been close with Leno helping and even mentoring Miller long before he got on to SNL, and this nearly destroyed their friendship - it would be several years before Miller finally reconciled with him.

Obviously Miller went in another direction around the time George W. Bush took office, but I liked Miller when he was at SNL and I enjoyed his far-more successful HBO show before his disastrous gig on Monday Night Football. Some episodes are up on YouTube thanks to fans who saved their VHS tapes, and they're actually pretty good. (A nice surprise - Andy Summers of the Police was the music director for the first few months.) Not great, but most of the faults seem understandable. For example, it was his first show and as comfortable as he seemed, seven tumultuous months isn't really enough time for a show to get everything right. And as others have confirmed, any show competing for late night supremacy is probably going to be softer or more mainstream than what you'd finder in a later time-slot or on cable TV.

Having Chevy Chase on was amusing - he wasn't very funny, but he expresses skepticism about having a talk show when he'd host a terrible one two years later.

[flyonthewall2983]

I liked his HBO show a lot, and even remember liking bits from his stand-up record The Off-White Album.

[hearthesilence]

I liked his HBO show a lot, and even remember liking bits from his stand-up record The Off-White Album.

There's a bunch of those on YouTube too - I didn't realize Henry Rollins was a favorite guest. I didn't have HBO growing up, so while I saw the occasional episode at someone else's home, most of my exposure was a local radio station (forgot which) that would play a clip of his show every morning. The show's theme song, Tears for Fears' "Everybody Wants to Rule the World," would always play underneath, and to this day I strongly associate that opening riff to Dennis Miller. Politics aside, he was often a wry, self-deprecating guy who really seemed to be having fun - he was cynical, but that was partly an act and he would let the audience know that. Maybe it comes with getting old or maybe I'm just seeing him in the wrong context, but whenever I see or hear him on TV now, he's just misanthropic and bitter.

[flyonthewall2983]

From what I have read on him he always leaned a little more to the right, but after 9/11 he became much more on the side of the then-current administration. Even after GWB was elected he called him something akin to "20 gallons of dumb in a 10-gallon hat". He did a stand-up special a little bit after his HBO show ended, and I remember him doing some jokes about climate change that really rang wrong, and that's when I checked out. Still, I think his forays into hosting television before that were quite good and more than a bit of it stands up today I'm sure.

[hearthesilence]

From what I have read on him he always leaned a little more to the right, but after 9/11 he became much more on the side of the then-current administration. Even after GWB was elected he called him something akin to "20 gallons of dumb in a 10-gallon hat". He did a stand-up special a little bit after his HBO show ended, and I remember him doing some jokes about climate change that really rang wrong, and that's when I checked out. Still, I think his forays into hosting television before that were quite good and more than a bit of it stands up today I'm sure.

Yeah, I remember him denying climate change many times in the '00s, he just refuses to believe it. Still does, I guess. In the '90s he called himself a socially liberal libertarian, which seems like a common philosophy among comedians from that time, whether they were politically active or not. (Among others, Bill Maher essentially called himself that too as late as 2000 when he appeared on Jon Stewart.) Al Franken may have been the most quoted source on this, but he repeatedly said, "everyone keeps asking me what happened to Dennis. Nothing happened, he's always been conservative on key issues," and Miller has said he voted for George H.W. Bush in 1988, supported Perot in 1992 and voted for Dole in 1996.

On one occasion, he stated his reason he gave for giving up on the left was when Admiral Stockdale was mocked for his infamous debate performance in 1992 - that's kind of the nature of comedy and politics, and he of all people should have understood that. But he made a good point that the guy was a war hero who was brutally tortured while serving his country, and as bad as his debate performance may have been, the guy wasn't a politician and it is pretty cruel to humiliate him for that. Maybe that's just his inclination though - going back to GWB, he once did an appearance where he actually said "he doesn't make fun of his friends" as a way of explaining why he will never make a joke at Bush's expense. He has a double standard, and he openly admits to it.

[flyonthewall2983]

John Madden’s sole appearance on Letterman. A shame he didn’t do the show more, he’s the sort of repeat guest Dave loved to have.

[hearthesilence]

Watching drunk stories about Peter O'Toole. The stories are endless, but here are three that I found most entertaining:

Richard Harris tells one on Conan

Michael Caine tells another on Letterman. (He also told the same story on Conan years earlier, adding some context about why actors drink so much.)

And finally the man himself, not long before his passing, about him and Peter Finch, and ending with his planned epitaph (which I'm sorry to report was not used).

[dx23]

Jon Stewart returns as Monday host and executive producer of the Daily Show. Tuesday through Thursday will have a rotating guest host of comedians.

Really wish the gig was given to Roy Wood Jr, but it seems someone at Viacom/Paramount/CBS, doesn't like him for more than a correspondent.

[beamish14]

I’d rather have Craig Kilborne, and I say that with no trace of irony. I genuinely loved the show under him, and the focus on local oddballs over national politics. Stewart’s mugging just drove me crazy

[domino harvey]

Discussion of attitudes towards Islam/Muslims moved here

[pianocrash]

Probably the only worthwhile moment I've ever had watching Jimmy Fallon, but shoutout 2 DVDBeaver (& Tracy Letts) (Nora Durst never lied).

Can't say 10K of blus = keyvip or not in that house, however

[dx23]

What happened to Jon Stewart? Or was he always like this and I was blinded by the lights? I went from adoring him to not able to stand him at all, mostly for all his contradictory bullshit he's been spewing over the past year. The first episode he came back in February, he basically both sided everything and then the cherry on top was saying that no matter who won the election, things would be exactly the same on November 6th and so on, and things wouldn't change for the worst. (Like if he was in a coma from 2016 till 2021). From then, he constantly attacked the Democrats, going all summer on how Biden was old and needed to be replaced but at no point having the same energy for Trump and the GOP. Biden quits, Kamala is the new nominee, and then Stewart kept digging on the Dems, saying that it was too late, that it was Biden redux and so forth. Dems lose the election, and Stewart's message is that they need to stop playing by the rules and star fighting the GOP back using the same tactics Trump and the Republicans have been using to get in power. Biden does exactly that to pardon Hunter and Jon goes and does a 180 and criticizes Biden for his action.

I know that after looking back, the whole rally that he did with Stephen Colbert in DC, during the middle of the Tea Party movement, where they both sided things, doesn't hold up well today. But what the hell is with these comedians, like Dennis Miller and Bill Maher, where they basically play both sides and blame everyone like their sins are the same and carry the same weight? Why and how did Jon Stewart fell into this? Should we have listened Wyatt Cenac?

Also, the last straw for me with Jon was when he defended the idiot comedian who called Puerto Rico trash, saying that he was funny before. Since when comedians became a protected class that they can be held accountable for their words and actions?

[Mr Sausage]

Since when comedians became a protected class that they can be held accountable for their words and actions?

Since comedians started believing cancel culture made them all incipient Lenny Bruces?

Was nice to see Anthony Jeselnik recently call out a lot of that bullshit, including Hinchcliffe for being an unfunny racist.

[domino harvey]

I just want to say I got shit on here about hating Stewart like fifteen years ago (more because I hadn’t found him funny since long before he hosted the Daily Show, but still), but he’s only gotten worse. I’m sure Mr Finger On the Pulse is going to drop some epic finger wagging moralizing on Monday about everyone celebrating the UHC CEO assassination

[dx23]

This is exactly what I mean when I ask if Jon Stewart was in a coma during the Trump administration. He is blaming the media for "scaring the public' into what could happen during this next Trump term. I mean, wasn't millions of people dying of COVID, crashing the economy, stealing US secrets, packing the courts to the point that Roe v Wade was overturned and Trump getting away with all his crimes not enough? What about an insurrection? Or just appointing a who's who of agents of destruction for his cabinet, with arguably a more incompetent cast than his first time around? Of is the whole Project 2025 not scary enough? Or was the separation of immigrant families not enough? Fuck Jon Stewart. He should have retired back when John Oliver substituted him and basically outshined him every way possible.

[beamish14]

I just want to say I got shit on here about hating Stewart like fifteen years ago (more because I hadn’t found him funny since long before he hosted the Daily Show, but still), but he’s only gotten worse. I’m sure Mr Finger On the Pulse is going to drop some epic finger wagging moralizing on Monday about everyone celebrating the UHC CEO assassination

Stewart has always been just unbearable. He’s lowest common denominator nonsense, just like Saturday Night Live

[Walter Kurtz]

I've always thought Man Ray, Marcel Duchamp and Rene Magritte were the last great comedians. Everyone since is rather second rate.

[hearthesilence]

Wow. I haven't followed The Daily Show in a long while, but comedy aside, it was both impressive and depressing how no news program came close to matching their staff in fact-checking and calling out blatant dishonesty and hypocrisy. (You'd have to go back to Tim Russert and the way he ran the hot seat on Meet the Press to find something better.) I watched the show a lot less after moving to NYC, partly because I was watching less and less television altogether, but for that alone I wouldn't have disparaged the show. And regardless of Stewart himself, his show opened the door to a ridiculous amount of talent - when he stepped down, so much of the most visible comedy programming on television involved someone with some connection to his show, and their material similarly kept the audience abreast of what was happening in the world.

FWIW, I didn't catch enough of Trevor Noah's run to get a good assessment of him - I think I saw more episodes during lockdown than any other time, and for obvious reasons, it probably wasn't wholly reflective of the show's quality - but he tended to be much more personal in the episodes I saw, especially when relating something to his own traumatic childhood.

[domino harvey]

Noah was a charisma sinkhole, and ill-equipped for the role— I don’t like Stewart, but he knew how to be an effective MC and build on what his guests or colleagues were doing. Of course, once again, I preferred the show when it was Kilborn and crew mocking local interest stories and not really caring about political grandstanding at all, but the Stewart term obv served that purpose well for a lot of viewers. You are dead right about the show no longer being the incubator for the next generation of comic actors, though. Who’s the last one who even springboarded off the show in its current iteration?

[knives]

Roy Wood Jr?

[dx23]

Noah was a charisma sinkhole, and ill-equipped for the role— I don’t like Stewart, but he knew how to be an effective MC and build on what his guests or colleagues were doing. Of course, once again, I preferred the show when it was Kilborn and crew mocking local interest stories and not really caring about political grandstanding at all, but the Stewart term obv served that purpose well for a lot of viewers. You are dead right about the show no longer being the incubator for the next generation of comic actors, though. Who’s the last one who even springboarded off the show in its current iteration?

Noah brought in good looks and the foreigner perspective of US politics, but you are absolutely right. Somehow he's a charisma sinkhole. It's funny that I could never put it in those words, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense. Even as a comedian, he's just there. He wasn't super known or successful before joining the Daily Show and after, he has just disappeared. My wife adores him after reading his biography, so I know he's smart, comes from poverty and a broken home and it seems that he got the money, so he's mostly done with the business and enjoying life.

Like knives said, the last successful comedian to come out of the Daily Show is Roy Wood Jr, who should have gotten the full time hosting gig. But Roy also was part of Jon's team, so he pre-dates Noah by about a year or two. Of the Noah team, Jordan Klepper, Desi Lydic and Ronny Chieng are excellent, with Ronny being the one to springboard to a bigger career as of late.

To me, the problem now is Stewart. He's completely out of touch and coming off as a hypocrite. He was the voice for the Gen X and Gen Z generation who were tired of the lies and manipulation by Fox News, Rupert Murdoch and the Bush Administration. The show had a stellar cast of comedians back then, but also a great writing team that showed the facts that contradicted the daily lies that Tucker Carlson, Glen Beck, Bill O'Reilly, Jim Cramer and many other's spewed on mainstream news media. Stewart tackled 9/11, the whole WMD bullshit, the market crash of 2008 and the poisoning of Fox News in the US. But once Obama won, Jon flipped a switch, especially the moment the media and Fox News started calling him "bias" towards the left. That's where he started both siding things. It wasn't as bad as how he does it now, but he was doing it nonetheless. Now, we need a daily voice fighting for the left. Maddow decided that she only works on Mondays, John Oliver does his schtick once a week and people like me were expecting the Daily Show to carry that torch again to have a fighting chance against Trump, especially now that Twitter had turned right wing thanks to Musk. Instead, we got a Jon Stewart that was not only both siding things, but was going against the Dems on the only day of the week he came in to work to host the show. He became another Bill Maher.

The Daily Show needs a shakeup, one where Stewart is completely gone, even from his position as producer. They missed the boat by not giving the job to Roy Wood, but there are many fresh voices out there that aren't as jaded as Jon has become. The right person could be Hassan Minhaj, who was originally slated to take over the job last year.

[pianocrash]

But really how relevant is The Daily Show format these days? Part of the reason it's still around is that it's notoriously cheap to produce for Comedy Central, but is at a stasis in terms of any evolution of the format. Roy Wood Jr. is currently hosting a US version of Have I Got News For You, which is probably closer to anyone's attention span when it comes to that type of news/comedy format, but I don't know if television is really the outlet for any comedian when placed with the alternatives of endless podcasts or youtube or tiktok that reach more eyeballs than a television broadcast format (save the target demographic of television viewers, whomever that is these days). John Oliver is enjoyable once a week (hard to step out of that hi-NRG, like drinking four espressos in 29 minutes), Seth Meyers has his moments in the remaining four days of the week (still can't respect him for saving John Mulaney all those times at SNL, but his writers have built Late Night into a more coherent approach to politics, even if it's a few minutes apart from the monologue), and I haven't given The Daily Show any real time since Rob Corddry left (sad, but true). Colbert has his heart in the right place, but he's still just making content to watch on in-flight programs: safe, neutered, but just enuff "alright" to take you to Tulsa.

As for Stewart, I suppose it's the fault of being successful, like what happens to most left to center political views as you settle into old age (same reason why I don't ask Jamie Oliver what he thinks about the current PM, but I do enjoy watching him cook a 15 minute meal): you become your parents, you protect the people (class) around you, and, hey, it's show biz, and we all gotta get paid. As long as anyone's paying attention, I suppose that's all that matters to these types of people, right? Anything to keep the spotlights on.

[colinr0380]

Wait, Jon Stewart did things after Where's Elvis This Week? (I wonder if he still has the 'bad boy' leather jacket?)