criterionforum.org

captveg wrote: I suspect this change also means that the DVD in the dual releases will be barebones, with all the bonus content only on the Blu-ray discs. That's typically what other combo releases are like (unless an older DVD version is re-purposed).

The press release states, though, that the DVDs and Blu-rays will both have the same special features.

Jeff wrote:The funny thing is, if Criterion started including actual collectible cardboard coasters with their Blu-rays, these same folks would be delighted.

No I wouldn't. Hey I've got an idea... Why doesn't Criterion just make every release like one of those WB box sets of Ben Hur or The Wizard of Oz... and toss in a whole bunch of crap also. God, I would love that!!!

Hey, I've got an idea

I'm beginning to wish our banning ordinance had been serious. This winning is just dull filler for actual conversation.

knives wrote:I'm beginning to wish our banning ordinance had been serious. This winning is just dull filler for actual conversation.

Somebody's winning? Is there a contest I don't know about?

Anthony wrote:Why doesn't Criterion just make every release like one of those WB box sets of Ben Hur or The Wizard of Oz... and toss in a whole bunch of crap also.

Those sets come in giant shelf-hogging boxes and cost four times as much as the plain Blu-ray. Criterion's dual-format releases cost exactly the same and come in the same size packaging as plain Blus. What is the downside for the consumer?

Lowry_Sam wrote:Somebody's winning? Is there a contest I don't know about?

Hey, why not include a digital copy too... and a VHS of the movie so my grandma and watch it also. Let's cover all our media formats. What about the LD crowd? Let's not forget about them.

The next time we see an upgrade that's not a redo like Tokyo Story, do you think they'll just throw in the old dvd? Most titles who get upgraded still use the old Criterion logo, so they'd need a whole new batch for them to match the new blu-ray.

cdnchris wrote:

captveg wrote: I suspect this change also means that the DVD in the dual releases will be barebones, with all the bonus content only on the Blu-ray discs. That's typically what other combo releases are like (unless an older DVD version is re-purposed).

The press release states, though, that the DVDs and Blu-rays will both have the same special features.

Ah, missed that. Thanks.

andyli wrote:If it's not enough of a re-do/re-issue Criterion could have simply released it as Blu-only. If they want to release, say Z or The Exterminating Angel next month with the same HD transfer they could (and should) just make them Blu-only. So the fact that they do Tokyo Story dual-format style means they consider it more of an re-issue than upgrade.

Agreed. Historically, if the film transfer is new they do a reissue.

Anthony wrote:Hey, why not include a digital copy too... and a VHS of the movie so my grandma and watch it also. Let's cover all our media formats. What about the LD crowd? Let's not forget about them.

Seriously, get over it. They aren't charging more for Blu-ray buyers (DVD buyers are technically the ones getting screwed by the $10 increase) and they're now saving money by only having to release one version that targets both markets. Yeah, the Zatoichi set is probably going to be bigger because of this but their standard releases aren't.

I imagine that another plus for Criterion that hasn't been mentioned yet is that they have to fight for far less of the dwindling shelf space for DVDs in whatever brick and mortar stores still stock them (or physical media at all).

They may be, but I'm skeptical that I will be. I hear the argument that it doesn't cost any more, but prices often as not seem to be a bit higher when there's a matching dvd included. Don't see why this would have been any different.

(Oh by the way, hadn't seen it mentioned, but this comes out after the Nov B&N 50% sale typically ends.)

Libraries don't generally accept bare discs without cases, do they? It'd be nice if all the people unhappy about being forced to own DVDs could just give them away to everyone's benefit.

I was going to say, if you can't figure out what to do with your discs, send them to me and I'll put them in our school's lending library

Exactly, I'm sure many a library could go for a DVD if you don't want one.

Don't get me wrong... I love all of the November releases. And the Zatoichi cover art looks fantastic. But I don't need more space taken up on my already crowed shelves by possible larger blu-ray cases. I can understand why Criterion wants to do dual-releases (to save money due to a dwindling DVD market). But why not just discontinue DVD altogether then? Everything seems to be on Hulu+... so why not just send the SD crowd over to Hulu?

captveg wrote:I suspect this change also means that the DVD in the dual releases will be barebones, with all the bonus content only on the Blu-ray discs. That's typically what other combo releases are like (unless an older DVD version is re-purposed).

I think the more relevant dual format model would be BFI or MoC. The extra content is a major part of Criterion's point of difference, and as I said before, the last thing the company wants as they launch a big change in the way they do business is a whole lot of negative press, which is exactly what they'd get if they forced their DVD customers to pay more for less. (And anyway, most of the dual releases I've got from the major studios have bonus content on the DVD - though they sometimes have extra extras on the BluRay).

I will never understand why people whine about included DVDs and/or digital copies with Blu-rays that'd cost the same anyway. This Anthony fellow is one entitled shit, to actually complain that there's an extra disc in his case. Boo fucking hoo

For those concerned about pricing, look at it this way:
At 25 DVDs, the AK 100 set costs $400, or $16 per DVD.
At 9 BDs and 18 DVDs (27 discs total), the Zatoichi set costs only $225, or $8.33 per disc.
If you want to gauge what the prices would be if they were split, splitting the price into thirds would put the two sets around $75 for the BDs and $150 for the DVDs.
Something like that, at least.

I'm actually really impressed with the bargain we're getting on Zatoichi- if it was a giant DVD only Eclipse set of 18 discs, I'd expect MSRP to be around $225 (call it three $60 5-disc sets and one $45 3-disc set)- so, you know, we get all the movies on Blu essentially for free.

Yaanu wrote:At 9 BDs and 18 DVDs (27 discs total),

I've seen this disc-split-total bandied about all evening on the forum, but I can't find a source. It doesn't say that on Criterion's product page, so is this just speculation that everyone is now adopting as fact?

It was my estimation based on a 3 film per blu-disc count, since that's what we see on the shot we've got of the set.

fdm wrote:They may be, but I'm skeptical that I will be. I hear the argument that it doesn't cost any more, but prices often as not seem to be a bit higher when there's a matching dvd included. Don't see why this would have been any different.

Wait a minute: they've announced the prices of these new releases, and they're exactly the same as the old BluRay only releases.

As for the Zatoichi box set: we've got three others to compare with it from 2013, and the pricing seems to be in line with those. There's two ways of looking at it - by disc or by film. Each disc seems to be valued at $20, with an additional $20 - $25 added for the box.

By Disc:
Pierre Etaix - 2 discs x $20 + $20 box = $60
Rossellini / Bergman - 4 discs x $20 + $20 box = $100
Cassavetes - 5 discs x $20 + $25 box = $125

With Zatoichi you also have to factor in a hardbound book (actually two, but one of them is housing the discs), and the elaborate packaging looks like it's even beyond that of Cassavetes, so I think it's reasonable to allow $25 for that, as with the Cassavetes, which brings us to the same price structure, not even allowing for the DVDs:

Zatoichi - 9 discs x $20 + $25 box + $20 book(s) = $225

If you're pricing the sets by film, Zatoichi comes out well on top at $9 per feature, compared with Etaix (a steal at $12 per feature), Cassavetes ($25) and Rossellini ($33).

willoneill wrote:

Yaanu wrote:At 9 BDs and 18 DVDs (27 discs total),

I've seen this disc-split-total bandied about all evening on the forum, but I can't find a source. It doesn't say that on Criterion's product page, so is this just speculation that everyone is now adopting as fact?

The press release states that it's going to be 9 BDs and 18 DVDs.
The hard part is finding someone who posts the press releases online.