Twilight Time / Redwind

[Orlac]

What a bore...

[tenia]

I've read on Facebook TT re-facebooking an awfully written comment of some random guys (I believe) who's basically saying how TT is so freaking awesome, especially on extras, while Criterion are shite.
He's saying for instance how it's wonderful TT has included some John Carpenter's audio commentary on their titles while Criterion is always commissionning the same "so called experts" who're saying always the same thing on each movie of a given director (for instance, Donald Richie on Kurosawa).
However, he's also saying he's happy getting all this from TT for $16.99 per release...

But TT is "very happy about [this guy]'s change of mind about our business !".

I'll repost it here once I get home this evening, but it truly is laughable at best. It is extremely biased, to the point many arguments are untrue and approximative, and it's really bad business to officially repost things like this. Especially when it's overlong and poorly written.

[FrauBlucher]

I know this is subjective, but if you take the top 20 (at least) Criterion releases, whatever basis you want to use, you would be hard pressed to put a TT title in that twenty.

[domino harvey]

It's just low-brow Us vs Them methodology. He's punching against Criterion because they're so respected on the market and have similarly high prices, but like a lot of anti-intellectuals on the internet, he thinks fans of the movies released by Criterion are faking it when it comes to their admiration, and what we all really would prefer are more Charles Bronson pics

[Arrow]

It's just low-brow Us vs Them methodology. He's punching against Criterion because they're so respected on the market and have similarly high prices, but like a lot of anti-intellectuals on the internet, he thinks fans of the movies released by Criterion are faking it when it comes to their admiration, and what we all really would prefer are more Charles Bronson pics

I've been thinking about The Mechanic for forty years.

[tenia]

It's just low-brow Us vs Them methodology. He's punching against Criterion because they're so respected on the market and have similarly high prices, but like a lot of anti-intellectuals on the internet, he thinks fans of the movies released by Criterion are faking it when it comes to their admiration, and what we all really would prefer are more Charles Bronson pics

In fact, I buy Criterion stuff just to compensate the fact that I love Pain & Gain and Bad Boys 2.

The issue is writing this :

I look at a lot of their titles and I think they're not important at all. What they really focus on is esoteric movies that can all come under the generalised banner of 'art.' They have been around for thirty years but they have released titles in the last few years that they never would have even looked at ten years earlier.

I also believe they wouldn't have done such a big IFC deal 10 years ago (they had a few Paramount stuff but that was like 4 titles on DVD) and that this has indeed probably more to do to having big sellers than artistically importance.
However, I don't think they have a focus on esoteric movies, even less not important movie.
Roeg, Godard, Renoir, Ozu, Fellini, Truffaut, Morris, Bergman : that's only the January 15 to March 15 batches for Criterion. Are this esoteric ? Not at all. Are there unimportant ? Who is he kidding ? Sure, I'm not sure how A Master Builder, Watership Down, 2 Days 1 Night or Moonrise Kingdom are so important to cinema in general. But that's only a ridicule small part of Criterion's output, and Redman is silly generalising like this. He's basically unleashing arguments to be sent back against him. That's stupid.


And to say Criterion are selecting titles that "might not be all that good but might sell well" is absolutely
hilarious coming from TT. Because Save Your Legs and The Vanishing remake are so important movies, and TT hasn't pushed the enveloppe to re-release Fright Night because it was selling so well (while their business model is tailored for being a cash machine even a small titles).


Meanwhile, I'll keep my Bergmans, Fellinis, Kurosawas and Ozus. And I don't think I'll exchange them for any Steel Magnolias or Blue Lagoon.

[Drucker]

With Masters of Cinema and Criterion and Arrow, I consistently blind buy films I know nothing about and am amazed at how great they are. In contrast, nearly every film I've bought from Twilight Time has been disappointing. Their catalog is not exciting at all to me. If you were getting into film, and you started with what was available via Twilight Time, I don't know how you could come close to learning about film history 101 like you can with Criterion, MOC, or even Kino.

[domino harvey]

It's hilarious that they're decrying the esoterica of Criterion when Twilight Time works best, and is at its most commendable, when they release niche films the studios never even bothered to respect on DVD much less Blu-ray. That's a good thing. But no, there are relatively few canon-fodder "classics" in TT's roster, and that's okay. Everyone boutique label lives in the shadow of Criterion, and that's okay too. It doesn't mean they're infallible (as anyone reading this forum regularly can attest, no one here is a blind fanboy), but they have the track record and the resources to do a lot of good and acting like they're the cocktail party equivalent of film history is a joke, especially when you're the $30 a head frat house beer blast

[tenia]

That's the issue I have with this rant.

It's ok for different labels to do different things. That's actually what builds their own unique identity : TT are getting what they can from majors who don't bother releasing these titles on BD in the US, and that's a business of its own and that's fine, even if that means releasing tons of movies that are kind of cool but never close so often to be real classics (I mean, even their Renoir is dispensable). I've only bought 5 TT releases so far, and am happy with them (Laramie, Nuremberg, Swamp Water, When The Wind Blows & All The King's Men) even though I could have lived without half of them.

That's also why I don't understand completely why he's ranting about Criterion, since they're doing stuff so different from each other.

At some point, it looks like trying in disguise to justify why their choices of titles is marvelous and why it's ok for them to charge as much as Criterion, while never addressing both points really.

[Gregory]

That paragraph reads like the ramblings of a semi-bitter and out-of-touch person with an uninformed perspective. For one thing (out of many), what he's saying about Criterion in the '80s makes no sense and the point of it isn't clear anyway. Voyager released an impressive array of film-related projects, and Jonathan Turell and Peter Becker are literally the next generation of Janus Films (Saul Turell and William Becker) who had a major part in introducing American audiences to Bergman, Fellini et al., and Criterion did similarly with the laserdisc format. Not "even really like film people"? "Esoteric movies"? Huh?
And it's not just about the choice of films but how they're treated. Criterion pioneered the idea of special editions in OAS with commentary tracks and other features, which other labels such as TT have adopted to some extent, yet TT can't even be bothered to include optional English subtitles on a release like Riff-Raff/Raining Stones to help American viewers understand the thick dialects (not to mention the deaf/hard of hearing), yet they charge top-dollar and then spout off about how great they are?

[tenia]

As said above, here's what TT posted on FB yesterday.

And we'd like to thank Derrek Wright for posting this on our FB page today -- his change of heart about the value of our unique model makes a difference to us -- and his post echoes a great deal of correspondence we receive that demonstrates why TT has such a strong and loyal following -- you made our day!

"I'll REALLY enjoy JOHN friggin CARPENTER doing a commentary, and only paying 16.99! They can pack it with duct tape and use a sharpie for cover art if I get to hear one of the greats talk about his movie on a commentary track. I feel like the best special feature a BluRay can have (other then the isolated score of course) is the actual director's commentary of "his" movie. Actors and crew are a bonus. How often do cult directors end up in commentaries anymore. It's getting rare. I'm kind of board listening to "1" know-it-all scholar talk about something they had no part of. I'm looking at you Criterion… (Every Kurosawa movie has the same one guy saying the same thing each movie. That's sad, Am I wrong? I have a whole new outlook on this TT thing now. TT is providing some of Carpenters lucky fans with a special collectible. In the age of download and stream it, discs are losing the special feeling of ownership that make you feel special. Digibooks and Stealbooks are neat, but what really sparks collectors interest is when the item is limited in number. I take back all my comments about how TT should stay away from cult movies. I look at my large collection of DVDs and Blurays, and I still find myself showing off my TT Blu-Rays first. It's neat telling your friends, "Sure, you can buy Fright Night, I hope you're ready to pay over $150 though!" That's always fun. The fact that they sell for so much after it sells out is a testament to how amazing the product is. People don't throw that kind of money around these days unless they are getting value for it. I can't think of something I value more. Keep proving people like me who are quick to judge without a fair long term veiw. I am going to be the first to say, keep it up TT. You're making me and most of the other judgmental hate tweeters eat our words. I feel like you guys always knew you created something special. Being a civilized intelligent group of people that you all are, you just wanted to see how long it would take for people like me to realize the gift you're creating for us spoiled movie fans. If not you, who was going to bring Renoir's American masterpiece "Swamp Water" to Blu-Ray. Fox barely pressed any DVDs and let it go OOP fast. Surely because of profit only. You do this probably still knowing there is a good chance you could lose money on it. I wish there was more companies out there with the love that you guys put into everything you release. Thank you TT. Signed, Past, present, and permanent customer."

[EddieLarkin]

It's neat telling your friends, "Sure, you can buy Fright Night, I hope you're ready to pay over $150 though!" That's always fun.

It sure is!

[FrauBlucher]

I'm kind of board listening to "1" know-it-all scholar talk about something they had no part of. I'm looking at you Criterion… (Every Kurosawa movie has the same one guy saying the same thing each movie. That's sad, Am I wrong?

Really.... How many TT releases has the so called film historian, Redman, on doing commentary? Lots...

[Drucker]

As said above, here's what TT posted on FB yesterday.

I feel like the best special feature a BluRay can have (other then the isolated score of course)

That has to be a joke.

[Arrow]

Do people here appreciate that as an extra? (Genuinely curious.)

[tenia]

It's neat telling your friends, "Sure, you can buy Fright Night, I hope you're ready to pay over $150 though!" That's always fun.

It sure is!

I just re-read that crap and that's exactly the sentence I was about to single out.
It actually says a lot about the business model TT has created : one in which custumers are buying stuff not because of the movie itself but by fear of missing the release because it sold out or because how much you can make of it on eBay once it's sold out.

[Zot!]

That paragraph reads like the ramblings of a semi-bitter and out-of-touch person with an uninformed perspective. For one thing (out of many), what he's saying about Criterion in the '80s makes no sense and the point of it isn't clear anyway. Voyager released an impressive array of film-related projects, and Jonathan Turell and Peter Becker are literally the next generation of Janus Films (Saul Turell and William Becker) who had a major part in introducing American audiences to Bergman, Fellini et al., and Criterion did similarly with the laserdisc format. Not "even really like film people"? "Esoteric movies"? Huh?
And it's not just about the choice of films but how they're treated. Criterion pioneered the idea of special editions in OAS with commentary tracks and other features, which other labels such as TT have adopted to some extent, yet TT can't even be bothered to include optional English subtitles on a release like Riff-Raff/Raining Stones to help American viewers understand the thick dialects (not to mention the deaf/hard of hearing), yet they charge top-dollar and then spout off about how great they are?

Yeah, it makes absolutely no sense, and reads like mass trolling. "IT Nerds", which didn't even exist in the 80s, are not really the ones diggin' on Antonioni. I just wish he would at least be sensible and complain about Criterion's artwork.

[Drucker]

Uh, those in glass houses...

[FrauBlucher]

Do people here appreciate that as an extra? (Genuinely curious.)

I am not at all interested in the isolated score track.

The extras I am most interested in are the docs pertaining to the film or the film subject, which CC does such a great job at.

[Zot!]

Uh, those in glass houses...

Yes, perhaps my irony didn't translate properly.

[Drucker]

The smiley face threw me off, to be honest.

[L.A.]

I'm kind of board

Stealbooks

[Jonathan S]

If not you, who was going to bring Renoir's American masterpiece "Swamp Water" to Blu-Ray. Fox barely pressed any DVDs and let it go OOP fast. Surely because of profit only.

I don't know about the US, but in the UK both Fox's 2006 DVD release and their 2012 reissue (also DVD) are still readily available for less than £5...

[Luke M]

Reading Redman's views on Criterion, I couldn't help but be reminded of this exchange from Mad Men:

[Orlac]

This sort of stupidity is why I don't buy from them. So many releases out there, I'd rather give it to more sensible companies.