The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

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Murdoch
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#201 Post by Murdoch »

Mad About You, or as my 10 year-old self called it: the Twister lady and the bad guy from Aliens
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zedz
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#202 Post by zedz »

I was aware of The Flying Nun (as a New Zealander, how could I not be?), but the reruns of that show ran out when I was about five, so it was only really raised as her curious backstory when Sybil appeared (and I only saw that as a repeat in the 80s when she was established as an Oscar-winning Serious Actress). And I missed most of her late 80s romcoms because I am neither an idiot nor a masochist.
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dustybooks
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#203 Post by dustybooks »

For what it's worth, Dom, I had the exact same experience with Titanic earlier this year. I saw it opening night with my parents (at age, uh, 14?) and was caught up in the spectacle of it but assumed for years thereafter that it would be a dramatically flat, badly performed, flashy nonentity on revisit. But I was thrown for a loop. I really believe that its sheer adolescent spirit -- manifested especially well in Kate Winslet's performance -- is what makes it so absorbing and oddly pleasurable.
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Cold Bishop
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#204 Post by Cold Bishop »

I'm surprised you haven't gotten more blowback for this...
domino harvey wrote:L.A. Confidential Overstuffed period piece that wants to be six different kinds of noir films and ends up just being a bit of a mess.
That's kind of inevitable: the novel was already a thousand page epic (successfully) crammed into 500 pages. Trying to replicate that feat from novel to screenplay was probably too much (although I still think Hegeland and Hanson's decision to pretty much the steal the story structure from a different Ellroy novel was pretty brilliant).

I know comparing film to book is pretty b.s. move, but I can't help it here: L.A. Confidential: The Movie is a superior, slickly made, expertly-acted potboiler, but not too much else. L.A. Confidential: The Novel is genuinely haunting and moving, and had me tearing up the first time I finished it.
Last edited by Cold Bishop on Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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domino harvey
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#205 Post by domino harvey »

Cold Bishop wrote:I'm surprised you haven't gotten more blowback for this....
Like the actual Oscars, everyone was too focused on Titanic to notice anything else!
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#206 Post by colinr0380 »

For many years from my early-to-mid teens I mostly associated Sally Field with Punchline (I was more of a Cannonball Run than a Smokey and the Bandit kid!), with her character being trapped in a loveless marriage to John Goodman from which only young stud Tom Hanks can save her! I seem to remember it getting regular screenings on ITV television in the UK between 1993 and 1996 or so and then disappearing almost entirely from view since then. Perhaps the biggest problem with that film is that I seem to remember it continually getting advertised as a raucous comedy mostly due to the presence of Hanks and the standup comedy backdrop, when instead it is more dramatic with very few laughs (strangely the more recent Funny People has the same exact issues and is also currently going through a regular ITV rotation these days!)

It was either remembering her from that film or from Surrender, where she had the memorable scene in the robbery sequence of being tied up naked with Michael Caine and thrown into a closet together!
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#207 Post by flyonthewall2983 »

My one problem with Titanic just as far as the film goes, is the Billy Zane character. If you put in his place, a father with similar motives (doesn't want her being with Leo, and who maybe turns into a more heroic character as the you-know-what sinks) to marry her off to some rich guy, it would seem more conducive to making the crash more tragic.
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domino harvey
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#208 Post by domino harvey »

Billy Zane's character is admittedly the worst-written aspect of the film and is lazily conceived at best. But then again, filtered through a teenage girl's eyes, her preordained match couldn't possess any positive traits in comparison to DiCaprio's Manic Pixie Dream Guy, so it works within the world of the film. Would the film still have worked fine and gotten its point across with regards to his character had he been given even a touch of non-mustache-twirling complexity? No doubt!
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#209 Post by flyonthewall2983 »

If nothing else I didn't and continue to not mind that Cameron won that year, for the mere fact that he did direct at least two of the greatest action/sci-fi (neither genre rarely a favorite with the Academy) films ever to that point and that the Best Director nod was a kind of back-handed recognition of that.

I do wonder if it'd ever been nominated were it not for Harrison Ford's protests to Paramount to push the film out of the opening week for Air Force One right to Oscar season.
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domino harvey
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#210 Post by domino harvey »

1999
American Beauty Has any film ever been so universally acclaimed and then quickly walked-back in such short order? It may be hard to find critics who'll continue to sing the praises of this one, but I must confess that just about everyone I know still holds this film in high regard-- it was in fact my last girlfriend's favorite movie and I swear I've never been over to anyone's house who didn't have this DVD on their shelf, so it obviously still speaks to people. I just don't know what they're hearing, because surely it can't be the over-familiar cliches and trite "light" touches to this midlife crisis-fest populated almost entirely with simplistic rebellious figures striking back against the middle class in the most obvious manner possible. Surprisingly, the only vivid figure here is Mena Suvari's object of desire (a role not generally afforded personality outside of the protagonist's imagination in films like this), who behaves like a recognizably human character and is given things to do and say that are worthwhile and well-observed. Funnily enough she makes the rest of the film seem like the unknown but lusted affection object-- it's hilarious when she's called boring late in the film by a pair of the dullest "outsiders" ever committed to screendom. Folks, if Suvari's character is boring, spare me interesting, especially this film's brand, which primarily consists of illogical "deep" and/or "quirky" moments that exist not to offer observation or insight but only function as the by-product of obvious audience pandering.

the Cider House Rules Another infamous Weinstein success story, I still vividly remember taping the Oscar announcements while I was at school and coming back to the out of nowhere announcements of the film's seven noms followed by E! talking heads stuttering through talking about a film they didn't expect to go the distance. Ever since I'd always assumed this was another back-alley lamestream film that didn't belong in the category any more than Hallstrom's effort next year, Chocolat. However, maybe I was just in the right frame of mind or mood for this but I ended up loving this one and bought into it in a real way. The beautiful cold chill of New England, the warm humanism of the orphanage sequences, Charlize Theron looking positively radiant with her arm around Tobey Maguire as they watch Rebecca… Watching this movie was like snuggling up in a comfortable sweater: it luxuriates. Though this is a gorgeous film, it doesn't shy away from the sooty mires it sticks its boots into, and yet for a film filled with adultery, drug-abuse, abortions, incest, and more, it still comes across as one of the most inviting and effective bildungsromans of recent memory. So, good work Weinsteins.

the Green Mile What in the world is this doing here instead of the Talented Mister Ripley, which had more nominations and seems a better fit by any metric of quality/legacy/legitimacy? Is it just carry-over from the guilt the Academy felt in the wake of the win-less the Shawshank Redemption's increasing visibility post-Oscars? Shot and paced like one of the yearly Stephen King miniseries events which haunted the airwaves in the nineties, this is a thoroughly dumb film, one so earnest and so desperate to hold the audience's hand that any pluses it might ordinarily be afforded are no match for the oppressive, suffocating tone and regrettable mysticism of its message. Minor points awarded for being reminded of Doug Hutchison's current fantastic trainwreck of a life every time he was on-screen, though.

the Insider This board has a fervid affinity for Michael Mann that I've never understood, and I'm no closer after suffering through this dry and tedious docudrama about a whistleblower's difficulty in getting his interview aired on 60 Minutes. The subject could be fascinating, but Mann's approach is to draw it out with facile depictions and inert dramatics. The acting is stationary and nondescript, the film itself looks ugly and processed, and even the music cues rubbed me the wrong way. I hoped this would be the one that converted me to the alleged genius of Mann, but all it did was reaffirm my existing position. I'd worry more about pushback here for my take on this, but most of you probably stopped reading this year's entry once I praised Cider House Rules anyways!

the Sixth Sense Like Psycho, the film's impact and legacy is forever tied to a twist ending spoiled long ago for anyone with exposure to any form of media, so it's fruitless to pretend watching it now can fully replicate the experience of seeing it in the midst of the "You gotta see this" mania upon its initial release. I didn't even have a chance: it was spoiled for me Monday morning in class by a group of kids lucky enough to make their way to the cinemas that weekend, and I put it off ever since. However, thanks to my strongly positive response to the Village, I had high hopes that this too would function well without the accessories of plot ignorance. In the end, I came away somewhere in the middle: The film's twist is well-executed and explains the weird tone and methodology running throughout the picture. That said, the film's tone is off, and there is a lack of interest in the perceived actual topic of the film, the little boy who sees dead people, that leads to the film being almost wholly dependent on the big reveal at the end to justify its existence. It's a mistake Shyamalan didn't make with the Village and yet that is the one people rally hardest against. So, this is another Andy Rooney moment where I crankily shake my head at "the people" and wave my cane. Note to self: buy cane.

My Vote the Cider House Rules
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swo17
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#211 Post by swo17 »

domino harvey wrote:I swear I've never been over to anyone's house who didn't have this DVD on their shelf
They're very difficult to get rid of!
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matrixschmatrix
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#212 Post by matrixschmatrix »

American Beauty was the first self consciously 'adult' movie that I felt like I fully understood (at age 14 or 15, maybe?) and, overstated though it is, it does have a distinctive sense of style. It doesn't hold up well (apart from the soundtrack) and it is painfully riddled with terrible character beats (the homophobe is gay! the uptight career woman hates herself and needs to be fucked properly! the middle aged white guy is the one who's really repressed!) but it works marvelously as the sort of thing that can open up the possibilities of cinema, perhaps specifically because it's so self conscious and overstated.
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Mr Sausage
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#213 Post by Mr Sausage »

dominoharvey wrote:Surprisingly, the only vivid figure here is Mena Suvari's object of desire (a role not generally afforded personality outside of the protagonist's imagination in films like this), who behaves like a recognizably human character and is given things to do and say that are worthwhile and well-observed. Funnily enough she makes the rest of the film seem like the unknown but lusted affection object-- it's hilarious when she's called boring late in the film by a pair of the dullest "outsiders" ever committed to screendom. Folks, if Suvari's character is boring, spare me interesting, especially this film's brand, which primarily consists of illogical "deep" and/or "quirky" moments that exist not to offer observation or insight but only function as the by-product of obvious audience pandering.
What annoyed me is how the movie tried to earn the applause of the audience by basically shitting all over her for saying the only thing any reasonable person would say to two teenagers planning to run away from home: that's a bad idea.

Also, are we supposed to cheer on the Spacey character? He's a total asshole. He solves his problems by becoming a teenager again (smoking weed, lifting weights to impress the hot highschool chick, getting a job at MacDonalds), berates his wife for sleeping around all while planning to seduce a 17 year-old, and blames his wife for the fact he's neither attractive nor interesting. He is by far the least sympathetic character in the movie.
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#214 Post by Ishmael »

Mr Sausage wrote:Also, are we supposed to cheer on the Spacey character? He's a total asshole. He solves his problems by becoming a teenager again (smoking weed, lifting weights to impress the hot highschool chick, getting a job at MacDonalds), berates his wife for sleeping around all while planning to seduce a 17 year-old, and blames his wife for the fact he's neither attractive nor interesting. He is by far the least sympathetic character in the movie.
To me, the lamest thing about the film is that having created this unusual albeit assholic character, the writers have no idea what to do with him. What interesting places could someone find to take such a character? Um,
Spoiler
nowhere, they just have somebody shoot him.
That's some of the the lamest copout bullshit any screenwriter has gotten away with, but who cares? Oscar!
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domino harvey
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#215 Post by domino harvey »

It doesn't surprise me that this film appeals to young people who see it before adulthood-- all the adults revert to juvenile actions and the kids try to act "mature," the film is basically a teenager's fantasy! All those adults who fell for its charms have less of an excuse, though
Mr Sausage wrote:Also, are we supposed to cheer on the Spacey character? He's a total asshole. He solves his problems by becoming a teenager again (smoking weed, lifting weights to impress the hot highschool chick, getting a job at MacDonalds), berates his wife for sleeping around all while planning to seduce a 17 year-old, and blames his wife for the fact he's neither attractive nor interesting. He is by far the least sympathetic character in the movie.
The fast food working aspect of his character is especially galling considering there is no narrative or character reason to do that-- Spacey already blackmailed the efficiency expert out of a year's salary and benefits, he doesn't need to work. No, despite some weak motivation ("I had so much fun working in fast food when I was younger because I got high all the time and got laid") the film is only interested in scoring some cheap humor points-- look how funny it is to see Spacey take such a low paying and disrespected job har har-- and, really, only exists for the scene where Spacey's wife and lover pull up in the drive-thru. It's so obviously manufactured and phony, even within the world of this film.
Ishmael wrote:To me, the lamest thing about the film is that having created this unusual albeit assholic character, the writers have no idea what to do with him. What interesting places could someone find to take such a character? Um,
Spoiler
nowhere, they just have somebody shoot him.
In terms of screenplay manipulation, I don't think this can be beat:
Spoiler
Spacey rejects the "experienced" Suvari when she reveals she's a virgin, thus earning some cheap sympathy from the audience who are then allowed to feel bad when he dies minutes later (after looking at photos of his happy family, no less. Cute)
I remember reading in Entertainment Weekly at the time that there was originally a different wraparound to the film that was shot but cut out and I don't think it's on any of the home video releases (I have the Blu-ray sitting ten feet from me, so I guess I could confirm this but), but I think it would have alleviated some of the awkwardness to the ending
Spoiler
I believe the film was originally presented by the deceased Spacey, wearing his bloody robe and everything, and at the end the runaway drug dealer neighbor is framed for the murder-- it sounds like a mess, but I do wonder how much of the film's faults are similarly tied up in loose ends left in the editing bay
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#216 Post by mfunk9786 »

A film I've been genuinely terrified to revisit because I liked it well enough in my teenage years (as you guys have mentioned), and I realize I'd likely hate it now and would rather just sort of have it lost to my fading memory. Though you have made me excited to revisit Titanic, Domino - which is a film I loved as a young kid (I was 10 or 11 when it was theatrically released and I saw it) and similarly assumed that I'd hate it if I saw it again.
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#217 Post by matrixschmatrix »

There was definitely some discussion in the commentary of the original ending, in which the kids were tried for Kevin Spacey's murder- I believe the idea was that Wes Bentley was supposed to end the movie, singing Us and Them in his prison cell- thus calling back his earlier, apropos of nothing conversation about Pink Floyd. Honestly, the movie was contrived enough without adding another stupid layer to it.
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#218 Post by flyonthewall2983 »

I think the way Mendes described it was that it would start with the Bentley character and then move on to other characters either singing or mouthing the words while the song played. I could be wrong on that, but if that's true considering the fact that it's done towards the end of Magnolia which came out around the same time it's quite the coincidence. I'll admit to being moved by it at the time (when I was 17 no less), and also that the DVD has been collecting dust in my closet for quite some time now. Having not seen many films that accurately depicted the disconnect between dysfunctional families, I felt it hit pretty close to home in some respects. That's about my only defense of it, but from who I was a lifetime ago. Although it gave Alan Ball the clout to do Six Feet Under, the film's worst crime is convincing Hollywood that Spacey could be good in every-man roles.
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#219 Post by movielocke »

I might be the only teenager (I was 16 or 17 when it came out) that hated American Beauty when it came out and have hated it ever since. I am loving all the hammering critiques here at the moment, because I've been making the same refrain for years! The only way I can figure to make it work is that it's a black comedy, a deliberate satire on the middle class (the adults act like teens, the teens (think they) act like adults, so deep!), but no one else seems to think it's a comedy, and as a drama I find it utterly awful.

Though I think part of the reason I've hated it is that I was working fast food at the time, and while we had a few stoners on every shift, it was the older people who had to work there that colored my experience. They were generally awesome, provided great conversation, often were exceptional with a witty line, and usually had an undercover boss worthy sob story, like the little lady in her fifties who said, "I worked at wal mart for twenty-three years, then a new manager came in and fired everyone who'd worked there for too long because we were 'too experienced,' I said, fuck, man, own it. It's cause you don't want to give us another twentyfive cent raise in two years." So Kevin Spacey's lackadaisical 'this job don't matter, whee' pissed me off because I knew how much those jobs mattered to the people who had to have them. And the hours are grindingly hard, even with goofing off, you're exhausted after a fast food shift, not all relaxed like an exec who's spent a day at the golf course, which is what the film suggests.
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#220 Post by thirtyframesasecond »

The stupidest thing about American Beauty is Chris Cooper's hard-as-nails, homophobic Army guy being *shock* secretly gay!
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#221 Post by flyonthewall2983 »

domino harvey wrote:the Insider This board has a fervid affinity for Michael Mann that I've never understood, and I'm no closer after suffering through this dry and tedious docudrama about a whistleblower's difficulty in getting his interview aired on 60 Minutes. The subject could be fascinating, but Mann's approach is to draw it out with facile depictions and inert dramatics. The acting is stationary and nondescript, the film itself looks ugly and processed, and even the music cues rubbed me the wrong way. I hoped this would be the one that converted me to the alleged genius of Mann, but all it did was reaffirm my existing position.
Quite honestly if this didn't make you a convert I doubt any of his other work will. But you probably know that already. I disagree wholeheartedly with your opinion, but at least you did the service of watching it and taking it head on rather than ignoring it.
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#222 Post by dustybooks »

I suppose I can live with being the loser who defends the indefensible here, although I don't think American Beauty is a great film and is certainly a lesser achievement than either The Ice Storm or Happiness, which both deal with a lot of the same themes. My reason for still having some affection for it is along the lines of what flyonthewall brought up above: when I was a teenager, this was my family. At the time I saw it for the first time, my parents were slowly splitting up and not only was Kevin Spacey's character strongly reminiscent of my dad in a lot of his attitudes and weird behaviors, Chris Cooper's character was even more so. Of course, this could easily be a sign of trite writing vague enough to seem universal instead of just lazy.

I do think it's also relevant that I never looked upon us as being meant to side with Wes Bentley's silly speech about Mena Suvari being boring. Bentley's gawky teen drug dealer is kind of a comical, Jordan Catalano-ish figure, but his relationship with the misdirected daughter does capture a sense of the irrationality of adolescent relationships. It's hardly Rebel Without a Cause, but I still found it funny and that despite its total absence of affection for its characters -- as Domino said, the grownups are idiots; it's like Home Alone! -- it did get across something like a need for acceptance and empathy that's missing from a lot of teenager's lives. That's probably why it rings so true to people around that age, and maybe why I enjoyed it more than I expected when I saw it again, because I haven't grown up much! But this, undeniably, speaks mostly to my own peculiarities. Just about everyone I know and respect, you fine folks included, hates this film immensely and that doesn't indicate an absence of appreciation for quintessentially "teenage" entertainment. Greil Marcus wrote some incredibly persuasive and quite vindictive stuff about it at the time, as I recall. I want to agree with Marcus, honestly, but for some reason this still works for me.
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#223 Post by swo17 »

I will confess to having fallen for the film when it first came out. I was young, both in years and in terms of movie experience, and I remember really liking it primarily as a black comedy. In addition, at the time, I was really into movies that were about "something," I guess regardless of what that was, or that had disparate plot threads that eventually tied themselves together in neat, if non-traditional, little bows. I rewatched the film a few years ago and thought that much of it was still pretty funny, though dramatically, I pretty much agree with every complaint that's been lobbed against it. I could honestly take or leave my DVD copy of the film, but, as indicated previously, I can't even give the thing away.
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#224 Post by jindianajonz »

Regarding Chris Cooper's homophobe being gay: I know it has become a cliche now to assume that people who rail against homosexuality the most may be closeted themselves (thank you, countless GOP congressmen) but was the idea at least fresh at the time this movie was released?
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Re: The Alternate Oscars: Best Picture (1969-Present)

#225 Post by flyonthewall2983 »

It could likely have been more novel in a major studio release, I'm sure it's been covered in similar ways in smaller films.
swo17 wrote:I could honestly take or leave my DVD copy of the film, but, as indicated previously, I can't even give the thing away.
I've given up trying to sell my old DVD's (having made the switch to Blu-ray and doing a lot of double-dipping) a long time ago. Would much rather give them to friends or family that I'd know would enjoy them.
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