Forthcoming Kubrick Box

[PfR73]

That's not anything special about the Kubrick films, Warner as a matter of routine issued almost all 1.85:1 films as 1.78:1 on DVD & Blu-ray, while Criterion typically respects actual 1.85:1. For instance, Body Heat was 1.78:1 on Warner's DVD & Blu-ray, but it's 1.85:1 from Criterion.

[rrenault]

Interestingly, both The Shining and Full Metal Jacket are in 1.85:1 which I assume is how they were originally shown in theaters. Warner's previous releases of those were in 1.78:1.

How are you sure about this if no specs have yet been revealed for the set?

[mikeainslie]

That's not anything special about the Kubrick films, Warner as a matter of routine issued almost all 1.85:1 films as 1.78:1 on DVD & Blu-ray, while Criterion typically respects actual 1.85:1. For instance, Body Heat was 1.78:1 on Warner's DVD & Blu-ray, but it's 1.85:1 from Criterion.

for their 4k restorations tho, they've mostly been keeping their 1.85 films in 1.85, and since we never knew what kubrick's philosophy would have been with high-def, i really wish vitali (the same vitali who thought that barry lyndon was never 1.66 and refused to let lolita be presented on dvd in 16:9 anamorphic widescreen because it wasn't shot with anamorphic lenses) didn't insist that the shining and fmj were in 1.78 on their 4ks

[mikeainslie]

Interestingly, both The Shining and Full Metal Jacket are in 1.85:1 which I assume is how they were originally shown in theaters. Warner's previous releases of those were in 1.78:1.

How are you sure about this if no specs have yet been revealed for the set?

because the clips in the teaser are in 1.85

[PfR73]

I assume it's referring to them being framed 1.85:1 within the Criterion promo video linked above.

[Oedipax]

By "complete," I assume this means they will also include the international cut of The Shining, the deleted original theatrical ending of The Shining, the longer 'premiere' cut of 2001, outtakes of Harvey Keitel and Jennifer Jason Leigh in Eyes Wide Shut, as well as academy ratio variants on The Shining (for both aforementioned cuts), Full Metal Jacket and Eyes Wide Shut (all restored in 4K, naturally). Bonus points if we get the Stargate sequence from 2001 synced to an Atmos mix of Pink Floyd's Echoes. (Yes, I'm aware none of that will happen.)

But I do look forward to re-buying all but one (it's just Lolita, right?) of these titles on 4K and for about the 12th time in general on video, going back to the DVD days

[Mark L.]

By "complete," I assume this means they will also include the international cut of The Shining, the deleted original theatrical ending of The Shining, the longer 'premiere' cut of 2001, outtakes of Harvey Keitel and Jennifer Jason Leigh in Eyes Wide Shut, as well as academy ratio variants on The Shining (for both aforementioned cuts), Full Metal Jacket and Eyes Wide Shut (all restored in 4K, naturally). Bonus points if we get the Stargate sequence from 2001 synced to an Atmos mix of Pink Floyd's Echoes. (Yes, I'm aware none of that will happen.)

But I do look forward to re-buying all but one (it's just Lolita, right?) of these titles on 4K and for about the 12th time in general on video, going back to the DVD days

I know this is a joke, but I fully expect at least the international cut of The Shining on 4K and stuff like original audio, etc., otherwise this is a complete waste of time and effort from Criterion for a bunch of stuff that has already been released on 4K. I know Criterion has disappointed with this kind of stuff occasionally, but if you get the chance to do this I have to imagine they do it right.

Is there anything else like this we can actually (reasonably) hope for? Would they include both versions of Eyes Wide Shut for completions sake?

[FlickeringWindow]

By "complete," I assume this means they will also include the international cut of The Shining, the deleted original theatrical ending of The Shining, the longer 'premiere' cut of 2001, outtakes of Harvey Keitel and Jennifer Jason Leigh in Eyes Wide Shut, as well as academy ratio variants on The Shining (for both aforementioned cuts), Full Metal Jacket and Eyes Wide Shut (all restored in 4K, naturally). Bonus points if we get the Stargate sequence from 2001 synced to an Atmos mix of Pink Floyd's Echoes. (Yes, I'm aware none of that will happen.)

But I do look forward to re-buying all but one (it's just Lolita, right?) of these titles on 4K and for about the 12th time in general on video, going back to the DVD days

I know this is a joke, but I fully expect at least the international cut of The Shining on 4K and stuff like original audio, etc., otherwise this is a complete waste of time and effort from Criterion for a bunch of stuff that has already been released on 4K. I know Criterion has disappointed with this kind of stuff occasionally, but if you get the chance to do this I have to imagine they do it right.

Is there anything else like this we can actually (reasonably) hope for? Would they include both versions of Eyes Wide Shut for completions sake?

While I'd rather see 4K boxes for Welles and Kurosawa first, a complete Criterion 4K box of Kubrick will probably outsell the Bergman box within the first year. Also an opportunity for Criterion to be more known for putting out complete box sets for filmmakers. Imagine if this doing well got Disney to hand over the Fox John Ford films for a big box.

[Oedipax]

That's a very good point about the original audio, and I hope Criterion won't let us down there with choosing between mono and more modern mixes!

In terms of other extras, I'd love it if they stacked these with all the existing commentary tracks throughout the years and added some new ones to boot.

Regarding EWS, I think it would be a shame to dedicate another disc to some crappy CGI fig leaves - I'd much rather have the 'helicopter shadow' cut of The Shining, thank you very much. But an extra feature that delved into the initial release of the film, the CGI figures being added, certain things in the sound mix and music tracks being tweaked after Kubrick's death, etc, would be extremely interesting, and also incredibly unlikely to happen.

The aspect ratios in the trailer for some films being 1.85:1 instead of 1.78:1 does lead me to hope some of these will be fresh 4K transfers/encodes. Does anyone know if there are encode issues for any of the existing 4Ks? Aside from a little macroblocking reported in the Barry Lyndon 4K from Criterion, I don't remember hearing about anything else.

[MichaelB]

It would be trivially easy to seamlessly branch both versions of Eyes Wide Shut onto a single disc. And very possibly The Shining, too.

It only gets tricky if there are loads of differences—for instance, to cite a project I worked on myself, Indicator’s Patrick contains seamlessly-branched 4K UHD versions of the Australian and Italian cuts of Patrick, but there were so many changes made to the US cut that we ended up having to include a complete feature encode in HD only. (It’s no great loss; it’s a watch-once curio.)

[justeleblanc]

As a sound person, I'd love to see both the original mono tracks and the original surround tracks for SPARTICUS and 2001. And the original/corrected mono track for SHINING.

[nowhereisaplace]

I also hope the include both versions of Day of the Fight and both versions of Fear and Desire.

[DimitriL]

I know this is a joke, but I fully expect at least the international cut of The Shining on 4K and stuff like original audio, etc., otherwise this is a complete waste of time and effort from Criterion for a bunch of stuff that has already been released on 4K. I know Criterion has disappointed with this kind of stuff occasionally, but if you get the chance to do this I have to imagine they do it right.

Is there anything else like this we can actually (reasonably) hope for? Would they include both versions of Eyes Wide Shut for completions sake?

One of the more consistent leaks has been that both versions of The Shining will be included. They were both completely valid cuts as far as Kubrick was concerned, so it would make sense. Their track record on original audio has been pretty terrific lately. (People were very happy when they didn’t just fix the audio for The Wiz on its second printing, but added the original audio as an option.)

Eyes Wide Shut is highly unlikely. The current cut is considered the one he would’ve approved, though I’m guessing the FX-treated footage will show up as part of a supplement.

[beamish14]

I mean, we’ve long sailed past Kubrick’s original intentions with Fear and Desire, so what’s the harm of including that reel’s worth of deleted scenes from 2001?

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

Kubrick wasn't even able to keep it from circulation when he was alive and now anyone who wants to watch it can just stream it free and clear (since it's public domain) from a bajillion online sources. At this point I'd say there's a reasonable argument that doing an "official" release is preferable to letting it continue to circulate exclusively in unauthorized editions. The deleted prologue to 2001 (and the original ending of The Shining, the pie fight scene from Strangelove, etc.) aren't in the same boat, as much as I'd love to see them myself.

[beamish14]

Kubrick wasn't even able to keep it from circulation when he was alive and now anyone who wants to watch it can just stream it free and clear (since it's public domain) from a bajillion online sources. At this point I'd say there's a reasonable argument that doing an "official" release is preferable to letting it continue to circulate exclusively in unauthorized editions. The deleted prologue to 2001 (and the original ending of The Shining, the pie fight scene from Strangelove, etc.) aren't in the same boat, as much as I'd love to see them myself.

I forgot about the pie fight. He showed it to Terry Southern in 1994, so it probably still exists

[Tuppence]

I know this is a joke, but I fully expect at least the international cut of The Shining on 4K and stuff like original audio, etc., otherwise this is a complete waste of time and effort from Criterion for a bunch of stuff that has already been released on 4K. I know Criterion has disappointed with this kind of stuff occasionally, but if you get the chance to do this I have to imagine they do it right.

The "international cut" of The Shining might be better thought of as Kubrick's preferred cut. In Lee Unkrich's book, Warner Bros executive Julian Senior quoted Kubrick as saying to him: "I think the movie was good, but I think some of the stuff I took out made the movie better." I've found people usually prefer whichever version they saw first though.

[Finch]

I wasn't keen on a Kubrick set but since David MacKenzie is encoding the entire set (fixing the one issue with Criterion's original Barry Lyndon 4k) and we're getting original audio on some of the Warner titles, I'm probably going to offload everything I already bought.

[nicolas]

So far, David only liked a post that linked to Criterion’s teaser. He’s probably involved in the set but he could be just as enthusiastic about it as most of us. The recipient of David’s like unsurprisingly saw it as a confirmation and spread the word accordingly. I also hope for a Barry Lyndon re-encode but I’ll believe it when I see it as there’d technically be no reason for them to re-do it unless they add an audio commentary.

[Stefan Andersson]

A mono soundtrack for The Shining would be welcome because of mistakes in the sound/music remixing. Discussion starts at approx. 16:37 in this video:
https://archive.org/details/ShiningPhilology

See also:
https://www.gordonstainforth.co.uk/shining-music-intro
https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2019/12/t ... -1980.html

[justeleblanc]

Yes, that Shining video essay is insanely useful.

[rrenault]

So far, David only liked a post that linked to Criterion’s teaser. He’s probably involved in the set but he could be just as enthusiastic about it as most of us. The recipient of David’s like unsurprisingly saw it as a confirmation and spread the word accordingly. I also hope for a Barry Lyndon re-encode but I’ll believe it when I see it as there’d technically be no reason for them to re-do it unless they add an audio commentary.

It’s of course possible David M is only doing some but not all the encodes in the set.

For instance, when Arrow did their Psycho set, the 4K of the original Hitchcock film was a direct port from the Universal disc while the sequels were all in-house jobs, so we’ll see if this ends up being a similar scenario where Criterion are hamstrung in terms of what they can do with the titles WB have released themselves in North America.

I’d say there’s a pretty good chance FiM do Lolita and the UA titles at the very least.

It would be cheap of them in my opinion to release a re-encoded Barry Lyndon just to lock it in a box set, especially only a year after releasing the standalone.

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

I forgot about the pie fight. He showed it to Terry Southern in 1994, so it probably still exists

The National Film Theatre screened it at a Kubrick tribute/retrospective in 1999. Columbia apparently donated the footage to the National Film Archive (now the BFI National Archive) shortly after the film's release.

[DimitriL]

So far, David only liked a post that linked to Criterion’s teaser. He’s probably involved in the set but he could be just as enthusiastic about it as most of us. The recipient of David’s like unsurprisingly saw it as a confirmation and spread the word accordingly. I also hope for a Barry Lyndon re-encode but I’ll believe it when I see it as there’d technically be no reason for them to re-do it unless they add an audio commentary.

I know there was an opening logo change so it was kind of necessary, but they did take the opportunity to fairly dramatically re-encode Trainspotting.

[nitin]

I dont know about "dramatically", noticeably yes (and even then not for most) but dramatically is hyperbole IMHO