The All-Time List Discussion Thread (Decade Project Vol. 3)

[domino harvey]

Sweet Smell of Success and the Best Years of Our Lives are the only titles from that round-up that will be comfortably making my list. Success just gets better for me with every revisit, sorry to hear it doesn't offer you similar pleasures. As of today "Well well well, the boy with the ice cream face!" is my favorite line, but that could change to a dozen similar all-time winners at any moment. Hell, hearing John Lithgow quote the film in the truly awful Raising Cain the other night only shows the perils of referencing a much better film within a shitty one! And Best Years of Our Lives is of course one of those perfect products of time and place that encapsulate everything great about the studio system and how it depicted the war

At four films I believe Hawks is tied with Hitchcock for most titles on my list (truly I am my influences), but I've never cared much for Rio Bravo. His best Western will be making my list, though, alongside three of his funniest comedies

[knives]

Those two are good examples of why this list is absolute murder for me. If you asked me on any if they were some of my favorite films I'd say yes because they are basically perfect (I sought out all of MacKendrick's films because of Sweet Smell of Success) and yet somehow they won't be making my list and probably wouldn't have gotten to a top sixty even. As of now only von Sternberg, Keaton, Claire Denis, the Archers, Lubitsch, and Godard have multiple entries on my list though there's still about ten I want to get to before resubmitting.

[Rayon Vert]

Success just gets better for me with every revisit, sorry to hear it doesn't offer you similar pleasures.

I still got pleasure out of it, just mixed with a bad taste in my mouth (like a cookie full of arsenic)! It would likely make my top 75 or so.

[movielocke]

That's an interesting question but hard to answer fully since many of the best films I saw were all movies I was familiar with, already interested in, and would have gotten to eventually-- for instance, Paris is Burning would have made my Docs list, but seeing it here only moved it up in the queue. Yellow Earth, the Blue Bird, and Mr Thank You would likely never have been seen by me otherwise and I did like them a lot, so those are clear successes from the process. Though not good enough to make any list, including Decades, I was glad to be forced to see some films by directors who I otherwise disliked, as these too were films I never would have sought out in my own: Syndromes and a Century, Millennium Mambo, Lost Highway were all good films I enjoyed much more than I anticipated based on other experiences with their directors. It works in opposite though: I care for Ozu less than ever after filling in some gaps-- though Tokyo Twilight and Tokyo Story are fine films, I disliked all of his other qualifying pictures. Same for Kurosawa, though I started out far less enamored than I was with Ozu-- only Seven Samurai holds up on this list for me. And I am utterly over Oshima after seeking out the abhorrent unseen titles propped up here. And in the extreme is Love Streams, a film by a director I was already cool on that stunned me in its awfulness-- legitimately my new go-to answer for worst film I've ever seen. I am not exaggerating when I say you could not pay me to sit through it again, as I have never had a more agonizing viewing of anything in my life!

In the interest of full disclosure, I just realized while looking through my checklist of crossed-off films that I left off my second-favorite discovery of the project behind Farewell My Concubine, A Moment of Innocence, a film like Yellow Earth that I 100% would never have seen in my entire life without this list and which I enjoyed immensely for its playful use of docudrama conceits and self-reflexivity. So there's another discovery I made a while ago that goes into the plus column. Not enough to make my Top 50 but it'd make my next fifty.

interestingly, I had the opposite reaction to recently filling in the gaps of kurasawa and ozu films, I wound up liking both of them much more as I saw more of their films, particularly with Kurosawa, watching and rewatching his films after several year gap of not seeing any of his (while exploring more obscure corners of cinema) it is sort of mind blowing how much better he is and his films are than almost anyone else in cinema history.

With ozu, I've not revisited as many films, but I did feel like his lesser known films have many films better than his most well known ones, Inn in Tokyo, walk cheerfully, there was a father and Tokyo twilight are easily equal to late spring and Tokyo story, if not better. But I was also overwhelmed at just how fantastically good his films are.

[domino harvey]

I did like There Was a Father a lot but it's not part of this list so I didn't mention it. It's far more deserving than the Only Son to be on the list though

[knives]

A Midsummer Night's Dream
I'm familiar with the original play almost exclusively through Gargoyles and the Reinhardt music so I don't know how much my problems here are to be blamed on Shakespeare or on Trnka's abridgment. The first fifteen minutes or so, admittedly not aided by a terrible audio transfer on the available edition, is just a total bore as if the film doesn't know what to do until it gets into its crazy central set piece. The ending while a significant degree better also feels like filler to make a story out of something that isn't in being that. I suspect the film's reputation isn't on its narrative value though and instead its aesthetic value. The centerpiece moves a bit too fast, both in pacing and in the actual animation, and could use a good another ten minutes or so yet it manages to for the most part achieve that aesthetic value. Trnka packs in a grand variety of visual effects that make it understandable why this has its reputation. It is not inventive to the degree to garner more than respect; which is to say it isn't that fun. The later Czech animators hurt that by making Trnka, not just here by the way, look conservative in his exploration with everything having a fundamental theatrical realism to it. In this film's case though that limitation probably works to film's benefit as it forces the dissolves, transformations, and other cinematic moves to have a grounding which the incoherent story does not provide. I also rather liked how there was no attempt at moving the mouths of the characters or otherwise bringing life to them which certainly could have been done at the time.

The Stone Wedding
Simply put this film is just good. It is not the most personally affecting nor the most daring film I've seen recently, but the straight forward manner in which it succeeds just has to be appreciated. Particularly in the first section there are a lot of oddball affectations which in many other films don't work. Everything within the film though is organically born out of the setting, theme, and stories present. The first section for instance is very laborious in its pacing, but in a way that seems born out of the stone quarry of the setting. It is almost like von Sternberg's Shanghai Express and its 'trained' actors though of course otherwise the films have nothing in common.

The second section is far more conventional which has the dual result of showing the first part is not affectation for its own sake and as a way of highlighting the difference in the characters' place in the world. This is a bit where the film lost me as there seems to be a lot of Romania specific assumptions going on which are impenetrable for me. Even then though this weird mix of surrealism and realism it achieves is enjoyable on its own so that the missing information isn't essential.

[swo17]

I think a lot of the Romania-specific stuff you mention is probably intended to be critical of Ceaușescu. I may not get every detail of it but the overall theme resonates well. (A garish celebration being put on for a bride that already has a wandering eye is a pretty great political metaphor. If only there were some modern-day equivalent of this kind of empty pageantry to make the film more relatable...)

[knives]

Reality television or would that hit too close to home now?

[swo17]

I was thinking of Donald Trump, but sure.

[knives]

I was referring to your question of the equivalent empty pageantry. Something like The Bachelor or I guess, Trump's show.

[swo17]

I guess I was specifically thinking of his fixation on representing how well attended his inauguration was.

[knives]

That's much better, as in more specific, analog. I wonder if the film has degree of specificity or if I'm just imposing that due to my own ignorance of Romania?

[thirtyframesasecond]

A Midsummer Night's Dream
I'm familiar with the original play almost exclusively through Gargoyles and the Reinhardt music so I don't know how much my problems here are to be blamed on Shakespeare or on Trnka's abridgment. The first fifteen minutes or so, admittedly not aided by a terrible audio transfer on the available edition, is just a total bore as if the film doesn't know what to do until it gets into its crazy central set piece. The ending while a significant degree better also feels like filler to make a story out of something that isn't in being that. I suspect the film's reputation isn't on its narrative value though and instead its aesthetic value. The centerpiece moves a bit too fast, both in pacing and in the actual animation, and could use a good another ten minutes or so yet it manages to for the most part achieve that aesthetic value. Trnka packs in a grand variety of visual effects that make it understandable why this has its reputation. It is not inventive to the degree to garner more than respect; which is to say it isn't that fun. The later Czech animators hurt that by making Trnka, not just here by the way, look conservative in his exploration with everything having a fundamental theatrical realism to it. In this film's case though that limitation probably works to film's benefit as it forces the dissolves, transformations, and other cinematic moves to have a grounding which the incoherent story does not provide. I also rather liked how there was no attempt at moving the mouths of the characters or otherwise bringing life to them which certainly could have been done at the time.

The Stone Wedding
Simply put this film is just good. It is not the most personally affecting nor the most daring film I've seen recently, but the straight forward manner in which it succeeds just has to be appreciated. Particularly in the first section there are a lot of oddball affectations which in many other films don't work. Everything within the film though is organically born out of the setting, theme, and stories present. The first section for instance is very laborious in its pacing, but in a way that seems born out of the stone quarry of the setting. It is almost like von Sternberg's Shanghai Express and its 'trained' actors though of course otherwise the films have nothing in common.

The second section is far more conventional which has the dual result of showing the first part is not affectation for its own sake and as a way of highlighting the difference in the characters' place in the world. This is a bit where the film lost me as there seems to be a lot of Romania specific assumptions going on which are impenetrable for me. Even then though this weird mix of surrealism and realism it achieves is enjoyable on its own so that the missing information isn't essential.

Shame you didn't like the Trnka. I think I'm responsible for it being in the list

I saw his Old Czech Legends during the BFI season on him and thought it was magnificent. I think I'm a sucker for kitsch puppet animation when there were more modern techniques around in the West.

[knives]

I liked it, but that like doesn't go beyond respect of the craftsmanship.

[denti alligator]

I have seen exactly two-thirds of the master list, and that's without having participated in any of the last decade's list projects. I'll see if I can squeeze in some of the favorites by board members before the deadline and participate in this one.

[swo17]

Please do!

[John Shade]

I have seen exactly two-thirds of the master list, and that's without having participated in any of the last decade's list projects. I'll see if I can squeeze in some of the favorites by board members before the deadline and participate in this one.

Feeling the same way as I've seen probably 300, and some much more recently than others, obviously since I'm a noob. Even so, if I submitted a list I would pick like five by Hitchcock, maybe three from Renoir, then two from Chaplin, Bresson, the usual suspects, etc...Hitchcock for some reason the toughest. I go back and forth on Notorious, Psycho, and the Birds as the favorite, with Rear Window, Vertigo, and 39 Steps lingering. Anyway, these are sort of fun problems to have. Going through some of the Ophuls films from the '30s and enjoying them. Also trying to go through many of these great silent films, beyond even my beloved and obvious favorites Chaplin, Keaton, etc.

Thanks to this board for pointing out Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors I want to add that I also recently saw Melancholia and would not have seen it without this board's influence. There is plenty of good material over on its thread, along with some good stuff on the internet. When the movie came out, I had no desire to see it. I was already completely turned off by von Trier, then he gave all those odd press conferences. Much of this is covered over on the thread and it seems others were very moved by the film after getting over/digesting von Trier's own baggage. Wish I had seen it on the big screen.

[thirtyframesasecond]

Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors is great, just great. That shot of the tree falling floors me every time.

[Rayon Vert]

Got to be brief, running short on time. Two-Lane Blacktop. I’ve recently acquainted myself with this film because I’ve seen it praised on this board and didn’t know about it. Fantastic movie – will be near the cut-off mark, wherever that is.

Brief Encounter. I didn’t expect to like this as much as I did this time around. Not only terrific acting and moving, but gorgeously filmed. Only film of this week’s rewatches that is sure to make my list.

Pickpocket. I’ve got several Bressons to revisit that I usually have difficulty rating as better or worse relative to the others, although Mouchette, my clear favorite, is not on the master list. The ending to this film, as in some other Bressons, are like Rossellini’s, in that something terrificly important happens in the very last seconds that you can easily miss if you blink. I’m still not quite sure what to make of that ending. But anyway I found myself again having this film resonate in my mind for days afterwards. Martin LaSalle may be a “non-actor”, but he cuts quite a memorable figure.

Rebel Without a Cause. Still terrific, although I’ve slightly downgraded it. There’s something mythical in the way Ray directs, frames and films these characters – making something operatic using near-cheesy subject matter (not that the script isn’t strong). Some moments I’m in awe, some I wince a little, often in the same scene (that goes for Dean’s acting as well). The visuals are incredible – the way the characters are framed and how color is used. I think its only rival in that sense in Ray’s oeuvre is Bigger Than Life.

Gold Diggers of 1933. I was pleased to see this on the list just because it validates my liking it much more than any of the other Berkeley-choreographed 30s musicals, and it’s definitely a top 30s musical for me. But it’s nowhere near Swing Time, say (which unfortunately isn’t on the list).

Citizen Kane. This always feels like it’s 15 or 20 years ahead of the time it was made. But this viewing confirmed that all the skill and display of talent involved doesn’t translate into something that has that much resonance for me.

Diary of a Country Priest. I’m always a bit at a loss as to what to make of this film. Never sure what to think about the anguished, physically tortured young priest looking for peace, whether his faith is justified or not, until images start to accumulate – his diet of bread and wine, the crosses formed by window frames, etc. - and the pivotal scene where grace appears to pass through him (if that is indeed what happens) and gives peace to a proud parishioner. The lonely, twisted birch trees evoke the spirit of this young man’s modern, quasi-existentialist passion. I find myself alternating from moments of pity for him to esteem to critical distance. His naïveté and self-torture offers a sometimes less admirable contrast to the flawed but lively parishioners around him, including those cruel little girls. But the ambivalence provoked is perhaps intended.

Rosemary’s Baby. The story is a little silly for me, or there’s something anyway that I react to with mixed feelings, especially towards the end, that keeps it from being a top favorite, but every time I see it I’m amazed by the craft involved and it’s all the little directorial bits that make it nevertheless a captivating, rewarding watch for me. It's amazing how confident and polished a director Polanski already was at this relatively early stage. And I don’t understand why Mia Farrow wasn’t nominated for an Oscar.

[swo17]

Nine lists in so far. I'm sure the final tally will be a bit more watered down, but as things stand now there are a lot of very interesting (and I would say welcome) inclusions that don't typically show up very high on all-time lists. To wit: 16 films in the current top 100 are not on the TSPDT Top 1000 list. And two of those are currently in our top 10!

[knives]

Lady Killer
At first this comes across as Gremillon's weakest film at least among those I've seen. It is certainly handsome beyond belief and successfully captures a light romantic air, but it also comes across as just another Jean Gabin film. Tried and true and nothing more with a hilariously straight faced title sincere in its old fashioned romantic notions. Then Gabin becomes a civilian and the movie becomes truly amazing and relevant in the powerful way that only the author of Little Lise could have accomplished. The title becomes at this point an irony. Not the comedic irony, though, of romantic feminism one would expect even as there are screwball elements of that present. Rather it is the sad, cruel irony of a society which builds up idols from warriors with an almost fascist glee only to ignore them and leave them to die as bums forgotten and seemingly useless once they become mortal again. The plot sticks pretty closely to the wooing beats everyone should expect from the events of the first half hour, but they are largely left uncomfortable due to the callous way the role reversal plays out. The nastiness of Balin's toying is severely compounded by how weak Gremillon allows Gabin to become particularly in the internal conflict of reality and delusion. While it would be a stretch to say that Gabin is not glamorous here, this is nonetheless a noticeable departure from how cool his other roles in the era are.

The characterization is often a rather radical departure from the more famous Renoir attitudes to such events. As a contrast this particularly brings to mind The Lower Depths which has such an aloof attitude to the loss of respect through class that it makes Gremillon seem almost a realist in melodramatic clothing. Even if Gabin wants to take on a masculine cool like the scene with the mother he's left helpless and cute fulfilling expectations in a way that gets him laughed out of embarrassment. The film shows what a nothing society can leave its heroes as. This of course isn't to say that Gabin is a likable guy. He's an obnoxious, self entered, loud mouthed, jackass, but that is just as true when he was in uniform as out. The fawning playfulness of the opening is utterly absurd since a soldier is still a man, but that doesn't make the humiliation of the rest of the picture some truly deserved thing either. That Gremillon accomplishes all of this dour stuff without for a second losing his playful tone is perhaps the film's greatest success. It never really feels hopeless or lecturing even as the tact suggests some negativity should be in the air. The film even manages to produce a number of great jokes including at least one visual gag that plays on voyeurism like a screwball Hitchcock. The only shot in the film that seems to give into the hopelessness is in the third act at the bar from the first after everyone has left the camera sits far away from a defeated Gabin with his head down and body small way off in the distance. It's a rare moment of desolation felt with maximum strength because the film hadn't dared to go there before. Gremillon might not aesthetically be the best of the French directors from this era (though the shot of Gabin looking at Balin behind the curtain at the end is as good as they come), but of the ones I've gotten to know he has easily the best mastery of theme and tone with a brilliant ear for emotions.

[Rayon Vert]

That's a film (known by its French title on the master list, Gueule d'amour) that I plan to revisit in the next weeks, and just purchased the new French blu-ray for that. I looked at a few other Grémillons when that Criterion Eclipse set came out and Gueule d'amour was my favorite of the whole lot (I was impressed by all of them, except Grémillon's last two films - by contrast, I did the same for Duvivier and there were a lot more duds by ratio.)

[Rayon Vert]

Orphée. We’re thrown into a universe already deeply familiar to viewers of Cocteau’s oeuvre – the mirrors, the statues, the high angles, the reverse shots, Cocteau’s narration – yet it’s a completely distinctive work. Charming, and my favorite from the director, but not a contender.

Double Indemnity. I can’t imagine this film being what it is without Stanwyck and MacMurray. It’s not a revelation to say that morally ambivalent protagonists are characteristic of noir, but I find this exceptionally and mysteriously so with the Walter Neff character. Right off the bat, it’s a bit of a put off the way he comes on so hard to this married woman and systematically calls her “baby”, but he’s nevertheless a character we (I) are attracted to. The fact that he narrates, of courses, helps us sympathize with him, and from the start we know this is a story with a tragic ending for him. The way his relationship with Barton Keyes (Robinson) is put into relief at the end is also moving. Exquisitely scripted and shot, I love this one every time out.

The Big Sleep. Watching this back-to-back with Indemnity reflected more poorly on this equally celebrated noir classic, that in the past I’ve liked a lot more. Engaging mystery propulsed by Bogart’s acting chops, but it’s an emotionally more superficial ride where we’re following private dick Marlowe on the job, and there’s none of the visual style of the other film.

A Woman Under the Influence. I thought this film would make my list, but I liked it just a little less than 50 others this time around, despite its many qualities (the originality, the emotional depth, the many scenes that really capture the quality of real life). The scenes with the children are especially good.

The Roaring Twenties. This one backfired a little too. I remembered it as the best of the WB ‘30s gangster pics, and there are great sequences throughout (including the famous ending), but also more ordinary ones. Boy, that Priscilla Lane is really winning – she reminds me of Ginger Rogers in the way she speaks and her general demeanor and looks. I’ve only seen her in this and Saboteur, but it makes me want to see her in more.

Le Cercle Rouge. If some of the other Melvilles had been on the master list, I might have wound up with something like 4 or 5 in my top 50. I prefer Le Deuxième Souffle in the heist films, but I found myself surprised to like this one a lot more than I had previously, seduced by the atmosphere, the tempo, the mise-en-scèene, despite (maybe in part because of) characters we never get to really know, that stay at a remove.

Anatomy of a Murder. Not a huge fan of courtroom films, but this is the best one I’ve seen. I always tend to forget how good this film is. The film gives you a real feeling for a place with its terrific use of real location shooting, it looks absolutely terrific, it always feels fresh and modern, and every little bit leading up to the court case is terrific. I don’t think Stewart has ever been better, and then there’s that Ellington score to boot.

The Long Goodbye. I like this Marlowe better. Great “meta” film that manages to mix successfully comedic and disturbing elements. Looks terrific. A 70s neo-noir that I thought would make a great double bill with The Killing of a Chinese Bookie, and that I’d rate about the same, which means just a little under the cut-off for this list.

[knives]

That's a film (known by its French title on the master list, Gueule d'amour) that I plan to revisit in the next weeks, and just purchased the new French blu-ray for that. I looked at a few other Grémillons when that Criterion Eclipse set came out and Gueule d'amour was my favorite of the whole lot (I was impressed by all of them, except Grémillon's last two films - by contrast, I did the same for Duvivier and there were a lot more duds by ratio.)

So far I've preferred Duvivier on average because there seems more to bite into, but Gremillon seems more sturdy able to spin something enjoyable out of lesser material.

[TMDaines]

Anatomy of a Murder. Not a huge fan of courtroom films, but this is the best one I’ve seen. I always tend to forget how good this film is. The film gives you a real feeling for a place with its terrific use of real location shooting, it looks absolutely terrific, it always feels fresh and modern, and every little bit leading up to the court case is terrific. I don’t think Stewart has ever been better, and then there’s that Ellington score to boot.

Watched this on Sunday night and we both loved it. It's an incredibly dark film and almost a farce, if you dig even only a little beneath the surface. The murder case is essentially decided by the proxy of a rape trial. colinr0380 wrote very eloquently on the film in its own thread.