criterionforum.org

That would explain the lower price point as well.

Yaanu wrote:This release will be getting a DVD-only edition, as well as RIOT IN CELL BLOCK 11, A BRIEF HISTORY OF TIME, and IL SORPASSO.

In explaining the rationale for dual-format, Criterion told us that it was more cost-effective to release a dual-format version than two separate versions. So why are they issuing separate DVD's of these items? It seems they are unsure of their strategy. They must have some influential DVD proponents.

MoC did a similar thing with several releases after going to dual-format, and even Nick/Peerpee pointed out that it was a move that made no sense.
Sure, some will be attracted by the lower price point of a separate DVD release, but are there still significant numbers who buy Criterion discs but don't care about getting the best quality, enough to justify a separate release, package, and pressings on a format with steadily declining sales?

The other reason Criterion gave for the Dual-Format move is the cost of keeping both Blu-ray and DVD editions in print perpetually. While these DVD releases indicate that there's still a sizable DVD-only contingent (again, probably mainly rental services and institutions), Criterion will probably not feel obligated to keep these DVDs in print, and they'll disappear after the initial print run or two. SPECIAL COLLECTOR ITEMS!

I gotta think the DVD-only releases will have relatively small stock runs, too, as they are not being pushed/advertised by Criterion in any meaningful way.

It still costs them time and money to design them, list them, and get them produced, shipped, and distributed. And smaller runs mean a relatively high unit cost.
Institutions that purchase DVDs but not Blu-rays wouldn't necessarily be put off by dual-format releases. I know of some, like the public library here in Portland, OR, that have bought dual-formats and just disposed of the Blu-ray. And as of a week ago they've just recently started circulating Blu-rays, finally.

Gregory wrote:I know of some, like the public library here in Portland, OR, that have bought dual-formats and just disposed of the Blu-ray.

As in, just threw it away, or gave it to some lucky employee?

We have a volunteer-run store here that sells library discards, with the sales benefitting the library, and once in a while I've seen Blu-rays from dual-format releases there for sale, just the disc in a paper sleeve. Elsewhere, I'm sure they go home with an employee or volunteer, or go in the trash bin.

I really really don't get the point of Criterion going backwards and doing this for DVD customers. (Seriously, are there really that many Criterion DVD only customers?)
Blu-ray customers (like me) are also complaining about dual format releases having an extra disc in there that will never be used, and having to pay extra for it.
Is there really someone out there going "Take that, Blu-ray! I'm excited Criterion is releasing Il Sorpasso on DVD!"

I know it sounds forceful, but if studios really want to push Blu-ray forward in the marketplace, then they have to stop making DVDs and make BD-only releases, and force people to upgrade.
Just like other industries, stop making cassette tapes, stop making PlayStation 1 games, stop making tube-televisions, and people have to get the next better thing. That's just how the market and technology works.

How does dual format make blu-ray releases more expensive? MSRP have remained the same.

I gotta say i'm pretty perplexed by this strategy too, whats the point of the dual-format release if they offer a DVD one as well? what was a decision made to save money by printing fewer editions now seems to be at least slightly more expensive by printing both editions and throwing in unnecessary DVDs into the Blu-ray sales.

Also I noticed that the Il Sorpasso DVD is only 1 disc, while the dual-format is 3, with the DVD only being 19.95. is there a chance the DVD releases are also supplement-less? That seems like an even more confusing idea to me as well.

adavis53 wrote:Also I noticed that the Il Sorpasso DVD is only 1 disc, while the dual-format is 3, with the DVD only being 19.95. is there a chance the DVD releases are also supplement-less? That seems like an even more confusing idea to me as well.

Huh, I didn't catch that. I just assumed they were all two-disc dual format releases.
Hopefully Criterion makes a final clarification in the coming days. Maybe somebody should email Mulvaney?

As has already been discussed in this thread, and as is clear from some of the "dual-format only" specs on Criterion's website, the DVD editions will lose some of the extras/essays included in the dual format editions. This is likely an experiment on Criterion's part to gauge how much of the market comprises cheap, non-forward thinking collectors. Or to cater to libraries.

Do most of the libraries and other institutional purchasers that this move is aimed at even loan out booklets? If not, why include them at all? It seems especially silly to imagine that a reduced booklet would matter that much to buyers either way in circumstances where the original packaging is often discarded. But it feels like a real shame to start offering customers A/V supplement-lite or -less editions. Because that gesture in itself strikes me as fundamentally un-Criterion. Why not just start issuing cut rate Essential Art House or Eclipse editions of every spine number? Too bad that even well informed institutional buyers like Matt would prefer a single bare bones DVD to a slightly more expensive package that offers so many more educational possibilities. And when you consider the relative physical robustness and longevity of the Blu-ray format alone, is also a much better investment for the future.

swo17 wrote:As has already been discussed in this thread, and as is clear from some of the "dual-format only" specs on Criterion's website, the DVD editions will lose some of the extras/essays included in the dual format editions.

There's no indication of this near any of the Il Sorpasso features, hence my confusion. As far as I have noticed only Riot in Cell Block 11 has a dual-format only spec for its booklet. I understand the idea of this being an experiment, especially for libraries as I've read in this thread earlier, but the idea of producing unique supplement-less discs for these types of buyers seems like a strange decision.

warren oates wrote:Do most of the libraries and other institutional purchasers that this move is aimed at even loan out booklets? If not, why include them at all?

My library does either together with the disc (when they fit in a plastic snap case) or as a separate check-out item (when they are part of a boxed set or in a cardboard container). ....But unfortunately the only Criterion titles my library has added in the past two years are Tiny Furniture and Pina....and my library hasn't added any new blu-rays since 2011 (and it had been buying titles rather sparingly)....but it has a wide selection of older Criterion dvd (including OOP) titles, most of which seem to always be loaned out. Perhaps I should ask why they haven't been buying Criterions recently.

swo17 wrote:As has already been discussed in this thread, and as is clear from some of the "dual-format only" specs on Criterion's website, the DVD editions will lose some of the extras/essays included in the dual format editions. This is likely an experiment on Criterion's part to gauge how much of the market comprises cheap, non-forward thinking collectors. Or to cater to libraries.

This.
I've always thought that here and there, a lot of people were happy about the DF move to what seems to mean "we're going to stop DVD progressively, and this is one first step". But I've always wonder about the people who would have to pay more to get their DVD.
It seems to me that there might have been a sizable backlash from DVD-consumers, unwilling to pay more, and Criterion wants to see if a cheap DVD-release can content them, even if it doesn't have all the extras.

However, if they do remove some of the extras, I'm not sure it'll send a good message to DVD-consumers, which may feel even more forced to pay more. At first because DF was the only way to get hold of the movie they wanted. Now because otherwise, the only possibility would be getting a cheap extras-stripped DVD-release, which I do find a bit stupid, since, you know, I'm quite sure these DVD-consumers like the "Criterion treatment".

captveg wrote:How does dual format make blu-ray releases more expensive? MSRP have remained the same.

MSRP may have remained the same, but cost-wise for Criterion, instead of packaging 1 disc for the old "Breathless" Blu-ray for example, now they are packaging it with 3 discs, and selling it for the same price.

It's like those informercials, which they say, "and as a bonus, if you order this kitchen knife now, you get 1 more miniature knife absolutely free!"
Well, instead of giving me 2 knives, just give me the 1 knife I wanted, and knock the price down a bit!

manicsounds wrote:

captveg wrote:How does dual format make blu-ray releases more expensive? MSRP have remained the same.

MSRP may have remained the same, but cost-wise for Criterion, instead of packaging 1 disc for the old "Breathless" Blu-ray for example, now they are packaging it with 3 discs, and selling it for the same price.

It's like those informercials, which they say, "and as a bonus, if you order this kitchen knife now, you get 1 more miniature knife absolutely free!"
Well, instead of giving me 2 knives, just give me the 1 knife I wanted, and knock the price down a bit!

They explained in their press release that it was far far cheaper for them to only issue one printing of a film than it would be to continue selling two completely different issues, with one each for a DVD and a Blu-ray. Instead of having to make the DVD package and the Blu-ray package they can now just sell all of it in one.

Absolutely.

The issue for many is that the usual reasoning is "selling more costs more". It's not the case here, because if the customer buy more, Criterion is actually "selling less", in the way that they now only sell one reference when they used to sell 2 (and I don't event count the EAH references for some titles). That's a scale saving which allows them, basically, to have bigger lot sizes, and thus better prices.

While I completely understand the idea behind what manicsounds wrote, it's just not at all the same.

Or, let's put it in an other way : they could if they ditch completely DVDs, meaning : only one reference with only the BDs. In this case, yes, they could probably lower the price. But as long as DVD's still alive, it's a different economy.

swo17 wrote:As has already been discussed in this thread, and as is clear from some of the "dual-format only" specs on Criterion's website, the DVD editions will lose some of the extras/essays included in the dual format editions. This is likely an experiment on Criterion's part to gauge how much of the market comprises cheap, non-forward thinking collectors. Or to cater to libraries.

I prefer to think of it as their way of shafting the most ludicrously compulsive collectors, who will now have to purchase blatantly inferior versions of new releases to soothe their completist mania.

Hi Moe!

Haha, thankfully my sickness only requires me to own one example of each spine, in Blu if available, so while I do buy all the upgrades and usually sell my DVD (unless theres a book with it or different packaging) I'm good to just get the big daddy dual format versions.

Stand by for Criterion's announcement of the cancellation of these releases!

And announcement of, I don't know, 165 numbered It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World keyrings.

Each keyring to be hidden inside a special collector's edition of Oliver Stone's W.!

Another underrated film.