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A Brief History of Time received a no-frills DVD-only release at a later date than the dual-format release. There were also late announcements and separate release dates for the DVD-only releases of Red River and Picnic at Hanging Rock. This suggests to me these DVD-only editions were afterthoughts.

Now, it seems the majority of films new to the collection are receiving a DVD-only release in addition to the dual-format release. A Hard Day's Night is getting a no-frills DVD edition. Judex, several July titles and all the new additions to the collection in August are getting 2-disc DVD-only releases.

Felipe's point is a good one:

It seems to me that now having to produce a dvd-only version and a blu-ray version with a "free" dvd (or two) will generate even higher costs than before.

I wonder if this is a step toward going back to separate blu-ray and DVD releases? Perhaps these titles were already in the works. Because of scheduling, etc. it may have been too late to put the bunny back in the box. It seems to me, if they are going to go back to releasing DVDs with special features for a good portion of their titles, it makes sense to revive the Blu Ray only edition. I hope that's where we're headed.

Amazon is (at the moment) listing all the new titles as Blu-ray (not Blu-ray + DVD) or DVD only. Only Vengeance Is Mine gets just a Blu-ray listing (no new dvd). Criterion's website lists that title as the only one of the new releases that's blu-ray only, with the others dual-format, so maybe they have stock to clear before they upgrade to dual-format (& substitute a new cover as rumored?).

Lowry_Sam wrote:Criterion's website lists that title as the only one of the new releases that's blu-ray only, with the others dual-format, so maybe they have stock to clear before they upgrade to dual-format (& substitute a new cover as rumored?).

There's no new cover, that was a misunderstanding. And they said from the beginning that there would still be some standalone Blu-ray upgrades. I wouldn't count on there being a dual-format release any time soon.

Criterion has been using "new cover" for awhile now:

http://www.criterion.com/films/548-fat-girl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Blu features the same cover as the original DVD.

The use of "new" doesn't mean "brand new, never before seen." I realize this can be misleading.

I think it's curious that at this point, when many are speculating whether Criterion is going to give up on dual-format, they announce an upgrade that's blu only instead of dual-format. I know they've done it before with Grey Gardens when they were making the move into dual format, but still it makes me wonder.

They just did it with Overlord, too.

And they said that would happen on occasion in their dual format announcement, so that's not something new.

As I believe was speculated when the announcement first happened, it seems that the titles receiving blu-only releases may be titles for which Criterion has a greater quantity of DVDs currently in stock. This would make sense for a couple of reasons: The first, of course, is that this allows them an opportunity to move their current DVD stock. The second is that the DVD edition may be required to hit a sales target in order to justify packaging the DVD(s) with the blu-ray at no additional cost. If a DVD has yet to eclipse a certain number of units, the dual-format release may not be feasible (3-disc Dual-format editions even currently require something of a package redesign).

For example, Overlord, Vengeance is Mine, and Ace in the Hole were all released on DVD post-rebranding. Sure, all three were released back in 2007, but many of the releases to have received dual-format upgrades were initially released DVD earlier than that. Among these three releases, I think it's safe to assume that Ace in the Hole sold significantly more than the other two, which accounts for it having received a dual-format release, while the others did not.

I can see the logic of the dual format move. But dual-format alongside standalone DVD releases remains mysterious to me. It seems Criterion is bending over backwards not to alienate their DVD customers. I posed the question to Mulvaney as to the dual format + DVD move and his reply was just a summary of Peter Becker's dual-format manifesto available on the Criterion website, which did not answer the question of why they are now releasing both. Could it be a maneuver to tempt those fence-sitters who, though mostly content to stick to the inferior format quality and the lower price of the standalone DVD, might possibly, on a whim, succumb to curiosity, without the fear of losing out on acquiring the DVD, in the hope that once they finally see a blu-ray, the planets will align and they will become forever devoted to the superior format?

Also, in my email to Mulvanaey, I asked if this was an indication of the blu-ray format being in trouble. The question was not addressed.

It seems that in the current state of things, lower-tier blu-rays are out the window. However, Judex is a lower-tier DVD at $24.99. This says something about Criterion's attitude toward it's blu-ray customers, who, according to Becker, are responsible for 60% of total sales. If this is truly the case, then Criterion is essentially saying that it's ok for the greater part of its customer base to pay an extra $15 list price for a plastic coaster we didn't want and have no use for. Have I missed something?

Wood Tick wrote:Have I missed something?

You missed this forums informal ban on calling the extra disc a coaster.

You also missed that the fact that the difference between the Dual Format and the DVD-only versions is the Blu-ray disc, not the DVD (which is, in fact, present in both versions). Whether this is worth $15 is something each individual has to decide.

jindianajonz wrote:

Wood Tick wrote:Have I missed something?

You missed this forums informal ban on calling the extra disc a coaster.

You also missed that the fact that the difference between the Dual Format and the DVD-only versions is the Blu-ray disc, not the DVD (which is, in fact, present in both versions). Whether this is worth $15 is something each individual has to decide.

On the first point, my apologies.

On the second, you confirm my suspicion of Blu-ray's lapse in status. I would have thought in dual-format releases the DVD is the tagalong.

Prior to the current practice, Judex would've no doubt listed for $29.99, like The Organizer, Summer Interlude, etc. Although the fully loaded discs have always been what has made Criterion special (as well as attention to design), the occasional lower priced Blu-ray was always a nice bone to have thrown to us, and a practice that appears to have gone away after the introduction of dual-format.

If Peter Becker is being factual when he states sales are 60% Blu-ray/40% DVD, then it's simply not just to charge those who only want the Blu-ray, which I would surmise is pretty close to the full 60%, extra so as to further an inferior product that is on the wane. The Blu-ray buyer appears to be subsidizing DVD at this point, for the benefit of those who insist on a significantly lesser picture. It's welfare, plain and simple, and I'm not going to stand for it.

Or, perhaps, the game has changed within the space of a couple months, and people have abruptly stopped purchasing Blu-rays, a phenomenon that would be as puzzling as that of the vanishing bees I keep hearing about on NPR and PBS.

Wood Tick wrote:It's welfare, plain and simple, and I'm not going to stand for it.

Maybe we should drug test people who buy DVDs?

Wood Tick wrote: ... a phenomenon that would be as puzzling as that of the vanishing bees I keep hearing about on NPR and PBS.

Sorry to turn this into a biology thread, but the good news is they've worked out what has caused this (known as Colony Collapse Syndrome). It's a microscopic-sized mite! Unfortunately, they don't know how to get rid of the mites.

Meanwhile, the blu ray vs DVD debate still rages.

Wood Tick wrote:On the second, you confirm my suspicion of Blu-ray's lapse in status. I would have thought in dual-format releases the DVD is the tagalong.

My point was that there are precisely two differences between the Dual Format and DVD-only releases- $15 and the inclusion of a Blu-ray.

You said we are paying $15 more for a "plastic coaster", which is wrong in quite a few ways. People aren't paying more because of the DVD- they are buying the nicer package because they want the Blu-ray disc that's included. They also aren't really paying "more" at all- the price of the blu-ray release didn't change when the DVD was added in. The only thing Criterion did was give it's blu-ray customers a free extra disc and it's DVD customers a price break, both of which are great for the consumer.

Why they've gone from dual format back to two seperate releases, I have no idea, but you can't argue with the fact that both releases are better values than what was being offered a year ago.

Wood Tick wrote:Prior to the current practice, Judex would've no doubt listed for $29.99, like The Organizer, Summer Interlude, etc. Although the fully loaded discs have always been what has made Criterion special (as well as attention to design), the occasional lower priced Blu-ray was always a nice bone to have thrown to us, and a practice that appears to have gone away after the introduction of dual-format.

You are aware that Judex is a fairly "loaded" edition? and not barebones like those you mentioned (Organizer has an intro).

Judex has
Interview from 2007 with cowriter Jacques Champreux
Interview from 2012 with actor Francine Bergé
Franju le visionnaire, a fifty-minute program from 1998 on director Georges Franju’s career
Two short films by Franju: Hôtel des Invalides (1951)(22min)
Le grand Méliès (1952)(31min)

The 39.99 list price is justified and IMHO worth it.

Bürgermeister wrote:

Wood Tick wrote:Prior to the current practice, Judex would've no doubt listed for $29.99, like The Organizer, Summer Interlude, etc. Although the fully loaded discs have always been what has made Criterion special (as well as attention to design), the occasional lower priced Blu-ray was always a nice bone to have thrown to us, and a practice that appears to have gone away after the introduction of dual-format.

You are aware that Judex is a fairly "loaded" edition? and not barebones like those you mentioned (Organizer has an intro).

Judex has
Interview from 2007 with cowriter Jacques Champreux
Interview from 2012 with actor Francine Bergé
Franju le visionnaire, a fifty-minute program from 1998 on director Georges Franju’s career
Two short films by Franju: Hôtel des Invalides (1951)(22min)
Le grand Méliès (1952)(31min)

The 39.99 list price is justified and IMHO worth it.

Actually, Bürgermeister, thank you for reacquainting me with this fact.... I had known about it and somehow it had slipped my mind. My line of reasoning is pretty much derailed.

Except, perhaps, it would still be preferable if the lower price of the DVD (that is, lower than the already lower DVD price) were also reflected in the price of the Blu-ray. (There has to be a reason this DVD is cheaper, right?) And also that a lower-tier Blu-ray (or if need be dual-format) title was released every now and then, which every Blu-ray release having to be dual-format seems to be preventing. I wonder if Criterion has considered the occasional stand-alone release in both formats for a title that would under old practices have merited a bare-bones, lower-priced release.

jindianajonz wrote:

Wood Tick wrote:On the second, you confirm my suspicion of Blu-ray's lapse in status. I would have thought in dual-format releases the DVD is the tagalong.

My point was that there are precisely two differences between the Dual Format and DVD-only releases- $15 and the inclusion of a Blu-ray.

You said we are paying $15 more for a "plastic coaster", which is wrong in quite a few ways. People aren't paying more because of the DVD- they are buying the nicer package because they want the Blu-ray disc that's included. They also aren't really paying "more" at all- the price of the blu-ray release didn't change when the DVD was added in. The only thing Criterion did was give it's blu-ray customers a free extra disc and it's DVD customers a price break, both of which are great for the consumer.

Why they've gone from dual format back to two seperate releases, I have no idea, but you can't argue with the fact that both releases are better values than what was being offered a year ago.

Well, I don't believe that packaging both formats together is not without some extra cost for the producer, which I believe is being reflected in the fact that lower-tier releases have been suspended.

Can you explain why the Judex DVD is priced lower than the usual DVD, but the dual-format remains priced at $39.99? I would think if the DVD warrants a lower price, so would the dual-format edition. Maybe it was decided that keeping it at regular price would offset the added cost of giving Blu-ray customers a couple of spiffy plastic coasters.

What do you mean by:

jindianajonz wrote: .... but you can't argue with the fact that both releases are better values than what was being offered a year ago.

??

Lower-tier releases have not been suspended. They are relegated to Hulu now where packaging costs nothing.

Wood Tick wrote:What do you mean by:

jindianajonz wrote: .... but you can't argue with the fact that both releases are better values than what was being offered a year ago.

??

I meant that a year ago Criterion offered two versions of its films: a $40 Blu-ray or a $30 DVD (I think? I never followed DVD pricing)

Now, for Judex, that $40 package includes a free DVD, and the $30 package has been reduced by $5. No matter which package you buy, you are getting a better value than what was previously offered. I don't see how anybody can find cause to complain about this (other than to say "yeah, they gave me something, but I want them to give me even moar!")

Criterion will be ending the Dual-Format program beginning with September's titles.

It's a shame that this program was met with so much needless resistance.

FakeBonanza wrote:Criterion will be ending the Dual-Format program beginning with September's titles.

Well that sucks. Still don't know why Blu-ray people had any reason to complain. The dual format has saved me quite a lot of money (would otherwise have bought 2x of Fantastic Mr Fox + Demy set). Also, dual format meant access to more films - that they could only get bluray rights to + the return of books/novels! Seems like MoC has gone through this same period -wanting to only support one format, but having a bunch of DVD people/institutions supporting their base sales.

I suppose its still too early to jump formats, though it seems that as people move towards streaming rather than DVD, bluray will inevitably be the victor. Hopefully dual formats can come back on occasion for certain editions (like the Zatoichi or when a novel/book can be added).

Wise decision IMHO

I have to say I'm not only disappointed, but a little annoyed at the "coaster" whiners. I liked having the DVD copy for a variety of reasons, and I'm not happy to see them go. But I guess the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

FakeBonanza wrote:Criterion will be ending the Dual-Format program beginning with September's titles.

It's a shame that this program was met with so much needless resistance.

It boggles my mind that anyone who actually pays for home video releases in 2014 could still be settling for the DVD format.

This is why we can't have nice things. But hey, at least they finally figured out a stylish 3-disc plastic case that will now get little use.