UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading [Archive]

[5meohd]

I think Do the Right Thing could be added as a solid upgrade. Since it is only HDR10 I'll be able to compare it myself when I get home. It should definitely be a reference upgrade for those that didn't grab the Criterion disc yet. See this review: https://thedigitalbits.com/item/do-the- ... k-2021-uhd

I haven't seen Geoff D do a formal review. I didn't double check the br.com thread to see if he commented or not.
Edit: Skimmed the thread and read all of his comments. He is definitely in favor of Universal's UHD disc.

Notes from that review:

Uses same 4K restoration master as CC set.
Only uses HDR10.
Included Blu-ray is the disc from 2009 and not the new restoration.
DTS:X is an upgraded mix, so while revisionist, supposedly sounds great. I don't have immersive audio yet so I wont be able to enjoy/comment.

Another glowing review here: https://ultrahd.highdefdigest.com/90784 ... luray.html

[rrenault]

Prediction: In The Mood For Love will be the first Criterion UHD to be placed in the “Disappointing” column…

[5meohd]

Prediction: In The Mood For Love will be the first Criterion UHD to be placed in the “Disappointing” column…

Possibly. I don't think Night of the Living Dead is going to have HDR either, so I'm not sure how much better it could be.

For both these discs the typically incorrect "4K only matters for giant displays" comment may be applicable for once.

[Finch]

We'll have to see re ITMFL. Purely on a technicality, it might turn out to be a solid upgrade but I'd add a major caveat in that case re the colors. NOTL will be SDR only too but there at least you have no color controversy and the grain should be better resolved.

Thanks re Do The Right Thing. I did get both the UHD and the CC BD and stuck the UHD inside the CC digipack.

Do The Right Thing (Universal) added to OP.

[ford]

The French UHD of La Règle du Jeu allegedly has English subtitles if you want to add it here at some point. Stills are up on caps-a-holic.

Looks pretty stellar.

Now the question is: do I buy now or hold off for the very possible/likely Criterion release?

[rrenault]

The French UHD of La Règle du Jeu allegedly has English subtitles if you want to add it here at some point. Stills are up on caps-a-holic.

Looks pretty stellar.

Now the question is: do I buy now or hold off for the very possible/likely Criterion release?

What would it gain from Criterion besides a booklet and Criterion packaging? That's my question. I wouldn't expect much of a difference in video quality. Then again, I live in France, so unless there's a substantial difference in encode quality I'm not sure it would pay for me to wait for a Criterion.

Then again, Criterion don't seem to be prioritizing UHDs of foreign titles that already have solid English-friendly UHDs (i.e. The Seventh Seal, Breathless, Discreet Charm). Le Cercle Rouge has an atrocious European encode, and the European UHDs of ITMFL aren't English-friendly.

I'm not sure Rules of the Game has a large enough market to support competing English-friendly UHD editions that are both good quality, especially since it's expected to fall in the next S&S poll.

[Finch]

I like some of the shots in the 4k import of La Regle du Jeu but it looks too dark. If you view the cap of them approaching the bridge at nighttime as an example, the branches of the trees are mostly gone. On balance, I prefer the 4k to the CC BD but I feel like they have pushed the blacks a bit too much.

[rrenault]

So solid upgrade then?

[mhofmann]

We'll have to see re ITMFL. Purely on a technicality, it might turn out to be a solid upgrade but I'd add a major caveat in that case re the colors.

Colors aside, I predict that the significant grain management applied during the ItMfL "restoration" will be even more visible and glaring on the Criterion UHD, just like it is on the German 4K...

[M-A]

I like some of the shots in the 4k import of La Regle du Jeu but it looks too dark. If you view the cap of them approaching the bridge at nighttime as an example, the branches of the trees are mostly gone. On balance, I prefer the 4k to the CC BD but I feel like they have pushed the blacks a bit too much.

The 4K looks very much correct to me. I think you may just be used to the criterion disc, but in the shot you are referring to, the grain should not be visible as it should be a very dark shot, but it is on the criterion because it has been elevated. Take cap 3, 7, or 9 for example, the criterion definitely looks too bright there, and the 4K looks correct.

The 4K is miles better in terms of detail, grain structure, grading, and is in the correct aspect ratio.

[Finch]

It's really only the outdoor nighttime shots I was worried about as some of the background detail does get lost but overall, I do like the 4k better myself. The grain is beautiful on the French disc and the same transfer probably hits the UK first via SC before Criterion get around to it, and either of the European releases may even work out cheaper by the time this film comes to US shores. Assuming the English subs on the French disc are consistently good, I have to agree with rrenault that there is little point in waiting for Criterion.

[ryannichols7]

The French UHD of La Règle du Jeu allegedly has English subtitles if you want to add it here at some point. Stills are up on caps-a-holic.

Looks pretty stellar.

Now the question is: do I buy now or hold off for the very possible/likely Criterion release?

What would it gain from Criterion besides a booklet and Criterion packaging? That's my question. I wouldn't expect much of a difference in video quality. Then again, I live in France, so unless there's a substantial difference in encode quality I'm not sure it would pay for me to wait for a Criterion.

Then again, Criterion don't seem to be prioritizing UHDs of foreign titles that already have solid English-friendly UHDs (i.e. The Seventh Seal, Breathless, Discreet Charm). Le Cercle Rouge has an atrocious European encode, and the European UHDs of ITMFL aren't English-friendly.

I'm not sure Rules of the Game has a large enough market to support competing English-friendly UHD editions that are both good quality, especially since it's expected to fall in the next S&S poll.

well considering they helped with the restoration...I don't believe they did this just to throw it on the channel and let it come out in France. it'll get a Criterion disc release. ditto Le Samourai where they're also credited on the restoration

[M-A]

https://slow.pics/c/9TWsezTr

Comparison for Studiocanal's The Piano 4K.

Neither encode is perfect, Studiocanal's is a bit blocky, and Criterion's is a bit mushy, but I think they are about equal overall.

Colour timing is a bit different, with Studiocanal's having bluer skies than Criterion's.

Studiocanal's is likely less blocky in DV, so will likely be better than Criterion's there as it isn't filtered like Criterion's is.

[rrenault]

So I guess The Piano is a case of “buy whichever edition is most convenient depending on your geographical region”.

[rrenault]

For what it’s worth, regarding films that are DVD/BD only on Criterion but that have English-friendly UHDs elsewhere, here’s how it stacks up:

Breathless: solid upgrade
The Seventh Seal: reference
Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie: solid
La Règle du Jeu: will most likely get listed as solid
Ran: solid
Crash: solid
The Elephant Man: reference
Don’t Look Now: reference
Robocop: reference
Sex, Lies, and Videotape: reference but with forced French subs
Do The Right Thing: solid
Parasite: reference
Some Like It Hot: reference
Silence of the Lambs: DISAPPOINTING
The Great Escape: solid


What are some others?

[M-A]

The Night Porter - not listed but probably solid
The Killers (1964) - not listed but probably reference
La Haine - solid
Howards End - not listed but probably reference
Easy Rider - solid
Anatomy of a Murder - reference
Dr. Strangelove - solid
In the Heat of the Night - solid
The Princess Bride - solid
The Killing - reference
Killer's Kiss - reference
Flesh for Frankenstein - not listed but probably reference
Blood for Dracula - not listed but probably reference

[5meohd]

It makes sense to me that we should try and get the Flesh and Blood for.. films listed. Those were huge gaps in the CC library for us cult/genre fans. I actually own both 4Ks but I won't be an authority as I don't have the DVDs and haven't ever seen them before. Planning on watching my 4Ks as double features with the OG universals during October.

Friday: Dracula 4K -> Blood For Dracula 4K
Saturday: Frankenstein -> Flesh For Frankenstein 4K

[5meohd]

The digital bits review of FfF is glowing. https://thedigitalbits.com/item/flesh-f ... 21-uhd-brd

Highlights...

Requires replacement disc for early orders.

Supposed expert best in class handling of 3D scann/restoration. 3D is the intended way to watch.

No less than 3 discs with 4 ways to watch. 2 types of 3D, 4K and 2K. Grades given:
"FLESH FOR FRANKENSTEIN (Polarized 3D/Anaglyph 3D/UHD/BD) A-/C/A-/A-"

Tons of supplemental content, sadly lacking the commentary from the CC laserdisc/DVD.

Distorted audio, no indication if this is from the source or restoration/master work.

I'm new here, but wouldn't jumping from DVD with no 3D to those grades (assuming they are trustworthy) score as 'reference upgrade'? Just trying to get the feel for what qualifies.

[5meohd]

Video full 5 stars
Audio 4.5 stars

Over at highdefdigest

https://ultrahd.highdefdigest.com/10013 ... 0excellent.

[Finch]

Isn't Flesh for Frankenstein a Vinegar Syndrome title, and don't these titles all have compression issues?

I personally don't find Digital Bits reviews particularly trustworthy.

I'm guessing people are referring to the German UHD of Howard's End? That looks like it may be a solid upgrade at least but information on this title is hard to come by in English.

I'd like to get more feedback about compression on the French UHD of La Regle du Jeu from people who've seen it in motion.

[M-A]

Vinegar Syndrome usually has good compression, I think you are thinking of Severin (who did Blood for Dracula) as they normally have awful compression, but not in that case.

Here is the thread for Howards End 4K along with Geoff's praise.

I also forgot about Pan's Labyrinth 4K, which isn't listed and I think it should be AVOID.

[EddieLarkin]

Early VS UHDs were encoded by David M, so they'll be fine. A list of all of his encodes is maintained here. They don't seem to use him anymore sadly, and Death Wish II suffers as a result. Not too sure about Flesh, I only bothered with the 3D version (and I imagine I only ever will).

Howard's End I own and thought was fantastic, much better than the old Criterion and even the newer Cohen, and the caps bear this out. The only downside is the title card is now in German.

Digital Bits is completely useless for UHD reviews, just like all the other big sites.

[Finch]

Thanks for that, Eddie. I think I'll import the German disc of Howard's End then as I want a copy of the film and wanted to have reliable feedback first. Does the UHD happen to have English subs as well as German ones? (would be nice to have with my hearing difficulties but not a dealbreaker if there are no English ones)

Howard's End (German import, minor caveat: no original title card)

Christine (Carlotta) (French import)

(Question: are the French subs enforced?)

Fanny Lye Deliver’d (Pull Back Camera)

and the following Vinegar Syndrome titles:

Beastmaster (1982)
RAD (1986)
Six-String Samurai(1998)
Tammy And The T-Rex(1994)

[EddieLarkin]

German subs only, I'm afraid.

[Finch]

Geoff confirms Second Sight's disc of The VVitch is the reference disc for this film

The new director-approved HDR grade is the star of the show and it's easy to think it's doing little more than the Lionsgate UHD at first glance. The movie still has fairly low gamma in certain spots, Blaschke not wanting to "whack the gamma" and ruin all the shadow detail by crushing it with darkness, but it's undoubtedly got a denser look than what the incredibly milky Lionsgate UHD has. It's not some lazy clipping of the blacks throughout the whole thing either, they've been set on a shot by shot basis and one scene/shot will look darker than the Lionsgate while another will look damned near identical. But the wider shots of the farm at night really benefit, darker but still with that glow of "movie moonlight", as does the sequence early on of the old witch smearing the blood all over her where the cuts to black are in fact cuts to grey on the Lionsgate, but now cut to black on the SS, as well as the shot of her ascending to the moon looking nicely 'letterbox' black.

The HDR aspect itself is pleasantly surprising. There's absolutely no extra highlight information here vs the Blu-ray, true enough, and from looking at the metadata you'd be forgiven for thinking that this isn't an HDR showcase. You'd be right, and yet the candlelight genuinely has more intensity to it here than the Lionsgate UHD. Nowhere near bright enough to singe your eyebrows but clearly brighter than before, and when combined with the darker look to the film it gives a MUCH greater sense of contrast than the Lionsgate. There's a shot of Thomasin approaching the outbuilding where she's got a lantern and sees a hare inside, the way the lantern plays off of the darkness in the SS looks stunning while the Lionsgate is as flat as a pancake in comparison, so dull and milky. Most candlelit scenes run in the same way, just a nice little enhancement to the brightness without ever overstepping the mark. It still retains that essential gloominess in the daylight exteriors - the production making sure to shoot only when it was actually overcast! - which is why there's not a great deal of average brightness here, but even with such restrained brightness it shows how even a modest amount of extra luminance in the highlights can make an impact. Even the white lettering of the end credits is much brighter on the SS UHD, showing a more pronounced 'flicker' as well.

I'd say that colour is where the two UHDs are most similar, albeit with a few subtle shifts here and there and the extra contrast on the SS makes it feel slightly 'fuller'. There's no wholesale alteration to the colour balance, only a fractional shift towards green on the SS, as the aesthetic is still very dour, very gloomy as said, the production design dominated by greens and browns and tans, with skin tones only allowing a trace of warmth in the daylight interiors and exteriors. The candlelight is slightly more golden on the SS though, again not overcooked for the sake of it but just a gentle increase. Blaschke shot his night exteriors to have a very light cyan hue and this is maintained on the SS UHD.

Fidelity's compression is essentially faultless and although the recesses of some darker shots may have what looks like posterisation - like in the climactic sequence of the film, which still looks better IMO with the blacks set much darker - this is purely source related. Even though The VVitch was shot entirely on digital there are some white specks that are plainly visible in some scenes, like when Katherine is in bed and crying in William's arms, it's weird as although there are some nods to film emulation like the gate weave on the opening/closing credits it doesn't appear that the movie itself has any weave or other film emulation applied. And yet those negative density-esque specks are there nonetheless. One other little thing to note is that on the previous transfers there's a boom mike that dips into shot early on in the film when Thomasin is peering through the bed curtains and Katherine is crying/praying on the bed, in the space above Kate Dickie's head the microphone hovers into view for a few seconds. This goof has now been erased on the new master.

So, on the one hand this brand new director-approved HDR grade of The VVitch from Second Sight doesn't drastically upend what the previous Lionsgate UHD did, but on the other hand it makes enough subtle changes to make it a more satisfying experience. Blacks run deeper and darker, not all the time and not in every scene but enough to give many shots more solidity in the low end without crushing them into darkness, which when combined with the expanded brightness of the candlelight provides a greatly improved feeling of contrast vs the excessively milky Lionsgate. It's a fantastic grade because it doesn't destroy the intended aesthetic of the filmmakers by juicing it with hot hot HDR but nor is it a simple "SDR inside HDR container" type of deal. Restrained, yes, but still quite striking in its own way. Add on the typically competent Fidelity encode and even the occasional goof having been fixed and this is the definitive way to vvatch The VVitch.