Turner Classic Movies

[Beloved Aunt]

Quick question, does anyone think, or know, whether if Turner Classic Movies changed their programming to include a more proportional mix of movies from all eras in cinema history, instead of focusing most heavily on the 30s, 40s and 50s, whether that would be a healthier long-term business model for them? Because if it would be, and there's no other catch, I think they should do so. They would still get to show lots and lots of Old Hollywood films, which frankly if I'm absolutely saturated with them as is the current TCM M.O., I do get kind of sick of them, much as I do love Old Hollywood. They could just be the Turner Film History Channel or something.

[Beloved Aunt]

However, it's also my vague anecdotal impression that a portion of their audience is sort of living in the past, hates modern Hollywood, and maybe even sort of overlaps with the Fox news-kind of audience... Maybe that part of the TCM audience would not welcome such a change, I don't know.

[domino harvey]

Literally the worst idea I’ve ever heard

[Beloved Aunt]

Why? I really don't see how it would be a betrayal or anything, or how it would "ruin" the channel, but if others think otherwise, I would really like to know why.

[domino harvey]

TCM has a brand. They have a specific niche in the market. Why would they throw that away to become Showtime? What other channels are even remotely catering to this audience besides something like MeTV?

[Beloved Aunt]

My idea is really that they continue doing what they already do, except on a somewhat smaller scale to make some room for programming that does what TCM already does for, mostly, the 1930s-through the 1950s, except for at least most of the rest of English-language film history. Is that really what ShowTime is? I wouldn't actually know, but it's my impression that most/all other movie-centric channels are basically just the "Broadly Popular Mainstream Movie Channel", with at best only occasional little dabblings in titles from a deeper and more comprehensive or obscure catalogue, which is not what my idea is.

[knives]

They already have programming for that like their silent block, horror block, and foreign language block.

[Beloved Aunt]

Yeah, that's it. All my idea is is that they devote more of their programming time to their

silent block, horror block, and foreign language block

as well as to their block of films from the 1970s, 80s, 90s and maybe even this century. I don't mean that they should just show The Shawshank Redemption and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and all that AFI stuff over and over again, LOL. Obviously TCM takes a more historically comprehensive approach to showing movies/old movies, and I don't think they should stop doing that, just that if it ensures their success and long-term survival better, they might devote more of their airtime to doing that for the rest of film history. Or maybe you gathered that already...I'm pretty bad at defining what I mean.

[Blutarsky]

In the past year or so, I have noticed TCM’s programming to be really good when it comes to incorporating both modern day movies and classics in their line up. I understand their intention too. With Letterboxd usage growing exponentially over the past two years or so, if people want to see/have seen There Will Be Blood, to keep viewers coming they might as well program it with similarly themed movies like Treasure of the Sierra Madre and Giant, which I believe they did during 31 days of Oscars. I think if it gets a new generation of movie lovers who can appreciate both older and newer classics, then I am totally gun ho for it.

Only thing I wish they did more is air Robert Osbourne’s old introductions. With winter coming around, his voice and insights were just as comforting as a warm cup of tea and a blanket.

[Beloved Aunt]

In the past year or so, I have noticed TCM’s programming to be really good when it comes to incorporating both modern day movies and classics in their line up

Yes, but modern-day movies/movies from the 70s through the 90s, are like 1/10th of TCM's overall programming. I was just wondering also if, were TCM to increase the amount of such non 1930s-through-1960s or 50s or whatever films, whether that might not only be better for them financially, but whether it might also be better for fostering better/more mature/varied/etc. film appreciation in the wider public, a portion of whom would be drawn to TCM (I'm assuming) by the increased more modern day/more recent programming, and then a portion/fraction of which might presumably be introduced to, and acquire enthusiasm for, older films and serious film buff-ery by TCM's still programming a goodly amount of older films, with proportionally the same variety as they do currently. I'm also wondering whether TCM as it is might be off-putting to those who might otherwise enjoy these older films often enough but might, ostensibly anyway, be put off by the dominance of old Hollywood films on the channel. All of these ideas of mine are really meant as questions, potentially for other forum members who might be more informed, or have a different perspective, than me about these things. I have no idea what film buffs as a whole or as a demographic really want or would go for, or even if such information is even available anywhere, and thus I simply don't know what would be the best route for TCM's long-term survival, or even if their long-term survival might already be secure enough. These are just thoughts.

[Beloved Aunt]

I wish they did more is air Robert Osbourne’s old introductions

I second this!

[Matt]

"So you want a realistic down-to-earth show that's completely off the wall and swarming with magic robots?"

[TechnicolorAcid]

“And also you should win things by watching!”

[domino harvey]

The TCM hub on Max will be adding hundreds of movies

[Matt]

Just give me the TCM live feeds on Max so I can cancel my cable subscription!

[domino harvey]

The TCM hub on Max will be adding hundreds of movies

Started sampling some of the offerings, which I assumed were using existing masters for old Archive DVDs based on my first watch of King of the Underworld, a silly Bogart gangster movie with him facing off against Kay Francis of all people. But Man From God's Country was in what I assume to be an incorrect ratio of about 2.70:1 rather than the advertised CinemaScope (and I gather it was released 2.40:1 on DVD). Now, this is a poverty row Western that I could buy being made by folks who don't know what they're doing, but there are A LOT of cropped heads and master shots that I just doubt would ever be framed how they are here, so it looks to me like the top of the image has been cut out for streaming for some reason. Ultimately I don't think it matters because this movie was terrible and the extra 12% headroom wouldn't fix any of its inherent problems, but it gives me pause for other offerings

[Matt]

31 Days of Oscar schedule

[Matt]

It really seems like TCM is showing a lot of the same movies over and over again these days. In their heyday, they would never repeat a movie in the same month. Now, greatest hits like Some Like It Hot, A Face in the Crowd, the Dollars trilogy, Bullitt, et al, are regularly on a few times a month in prime time slots. Even things that were once rarities like The Last Wave, which has been on twice in the last couple of months and is on again on June 16.

I often just like to have the channel on in the background while I do other things, but even right now on a Sunday afternoon my choice between the west coast and east coast feeds is The Philadelphia Story or Going My Way.

[beamish14]

It really seems like TCM is showing a lot of the same movies over and over again these days. In their heyday, they would never repeat a movie in the same month. Now, greatest hits like Some Like It Hot, A Face in the Crowd, the Dollars trilogy, Bullitt, et al, are regularly on a few times a month in prime time slots. Even things that were once rarities like The Last Wave, which has been on twice in the last couple of months and is on again on June 16.

I often just like to have the channel on in the background while I do other things, but even right now on a Sunday afternoon my choice between the west coast and east coast feeds is The Philadelphia Story or Going My Way.

They’ve occasionally been going WAY out of their comfort zone with stuff like Chinese Odyssey 2002, but I am tired of the endless Cukor films and typical staples as well. Where is the animation? More American independent cinema like what screened on the Independent Film Channel 25 years ago?

[agnamaracs]

Where is the animation? More American independent cinema like what screened on the Independent Film Channel 25 years ago?

Zaslav'd.

[pianocrash]

Yous all gotta remember that prior to Zaslav, the Midnight programming team was let go after ten? fifteen? years of handing in the weirds for all our pleasures, and I imagine the staff remaining is probably spreading the hope around as best they can. Likewise, the streaming/broadcasting rights are skewed toward everyone else with bigger pull in the game (that is, non-chained to big time cable subscriptions like TCM), so even going on a limb for one showing of a handful of titles is probably not financially worth anyone's while (also again, Zaslav'd). Cuckor & Classic Hollywood, et al has been their bread & butter programming, even if it seems tired when I can watch like 30 oomph'd titles on any other platform at any time.

I'll always love TCM! But Don Ameche was right: things change

[Matt]

Well we won't have to worry about Zaslav ruining TCM in the future because Warner Bros. Discovery is splitting back into two separate companies. One will include their film and TV production arms, the TV and film library, and the HBO Max service. The other will include the cable networks including TNT, CNN, all the Discovery channels and the Discovery+ streaming service, and, alas, TCM.

The latter company will be run by WBD's Chief Executive Bean Counter, Gunnar Wiedenfels. TCM does apparently turn a profit, so perhaps as long as that remains true, Wiedenfels will leave it alone. But the channel is clearly going to be a very low priority and easy target for further cuts in staffing and programming. Furthermore, both new companies will be open to mergers or acquisitions. You might remember that WBD was involved in merger talks with Paramount last year that were abruptly halted. This will probably open that door again since the new cable division will be saddled with most of WBD's massive debt and make the studio division much more attractive. Paramount already has separate divisions for TV and film production/distribution and cable/streaming.

New York Times story
Deadline story
more details from Deadline

I'm sure this means that my dream of TCM having its live streams on HBO Max is dead, and it probably means that what TCM content is currently on HBO Max will dwindle and possibly disappear entirely.

[dx23]

Well we won't have to worry about Zaslav ruining TCM in the future because Warner Bros. Discovery is splitting back into two separate companies. One will include their film and TV production arms, the TV and film library, and the HBO Max service. The other will include the cable networks including TNT, CNN, all the Discovery channels and the Discovery+ streaming service, and, alas, TCM.

The latter company will be run by WBD's Chief Executive Bean Counter, Gunnar Wiedenfels. TCM does apparently turn a profit, so perhaps as long as that remains true, Wiedenfels will leave it alone. But the channel is clearly going to be a very low priority and easy target for further cuts in staffing and programming. Furthermore, both new companies will be open to mergers or acquisitions. You might remember that WBD was involved in merger talks with Paramount last year that were abruptly halted. This will probably open that door again since the new cable division will be saddled with most of WBD's massive debt and make the studio division much more attractive. Paramount already has separate divisions for TV and film production/distribution and cable/streaming.

New York Times story
Deadline story
more details from Deadline

I'm sure this means that my dream of TCM having its live streams on HBO Max is dead, and it probably means that what TCM content is currently on HBO Max will dwindle and possibly disappear entirely.

The way I see this is that the streaming part will dump their debt on the cable one and then charge all the cable channels a fee, including TCM, for using any film from the library they are taking away. I wonder where IPs and other divisions like DC Comics end up but this is just another big fuck up by one of the worst companies in existence. TCM, which is profitable, won't be anymore when they have to license their whole content 24/7. Same for Cartoon Network, Boomerang, TBS and TNT. I don't see this working past 2 years and then will see Discovery selling all these assets to Amazon or Apple or Disney. The more I think about it the more I see this shit falling apart catastrophically and it makes me furious.

[Matt]

I think the whole point of splitting the company in half is to make them attractive prospects for acquisition. Everyone saw that Disney had to suddenly sell off Fox’s sports and news channels when acquiring Fox, so WBD is just getting a jump on things. Apple might want to buy the studio and film library, but they don’t want to run a bunch of cable channels. Similarly, Paramount’s or NBCUniversal’s media networks arm might want to acquire the cable channels but doesn’t want another film and TV studio.

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

Disney is actually an outlier in that they seem committed to their cable TV holdings, including the FX and National Geographic channels acquired from Fox—Fox News was always excluded from the Disney–Fox merger and Disney only sold off Fox Sports because they already owned ESPN and the DOJ considered that an antitrust issue. But the broader point is correct: linear TV and cable in particular is seen as a albatross and the sort of stuff we criticize Zaslav for barely matters to investors, whose biggest complaint is that it took him this long to spin off these channels. Comcast already did it with most of its cable channels and Paramount struggled to find a buyer largely because Shari Redstone insisted on keeping the company whole (unsurprising given that she was more or less single-handedly responsible for re-merging CBS and Viacom back in 2019, over shareholder opposition).