Eastern Promises (David Cronenberg, 2007)

[Cronenfly]

It's opening at one theater in Toronto on the 14th, which makes sense, I suppose, given that the same thing happened for A History of Violence here: I'm there 1st day.

[rs98762001]

Mortensen is wonderful, but unfortunately this is not as fascinating as History of Violence, nor is it as radical a take on its genre. The film has a tense and clever first hour that makes it worth seeing, but ultimately peters out with an anticlimactic and formulaic ending. Watts' character is one-note and does some rather unbelievable things for the sake of the plot, and the whole business with the baby is surprisingly schmaltzy considering who's behind the camera. And there's nothing close to the emotional depth displayed between Viggo and Maria Bello in History, not to mention in Spider, Dead Ringers, etc. In the end it's minor Cronenberg.

[Cronenfly]

In the end it's minor Cronenberg.

As they say, that's still better than a lot of the other dreck out there. I was anticipating it being a more minor sort of stop-gap movie for Cronenberg anyways, so my expectations are accordingly low. Sure I'll still enjoy it plenty, though: where else can you see a Cassel-Mortensen man-crush played out in all its glory?

[miless]

where else can you see a Cassel-Mortensen man-crush played out in all its glory?

not to mention a nude Mortensen wrestling/fighting scene.

[Cronenfly]

where else can you see a Cassel-Mortensen man-crush played out in all its glory?

not to mention a nude Mortensen wrestling/fighting scene.

Touché

[Gropius]

I was anticipating it being a more minor sort of stop-gap movie for Cronenberg anyways, so my expectations are accordingly low.

The question is, how many more 'stop gap movies' is he going to produce before he pulls out something to equal his earlier work?

I found Spider good and History of Violence mediocre, but neither of them rivalled eXistenZ.

[Barmy]

I don't have much to add to what rs98 said. Viggo is great. The overrated Naomi is useless, but so is her role. Armin is good. Vincent is pure ham.

The plot is at times boring, silly and/or ludicrous. A key plot point at the very end where something is stolen that obviously should have been under heavy protection is just lame. The much heralded bath scene is notable mainly for the obvious effort taken in the framing and choreography to minimize appearances of Viggo's wienie. So much for artistic daring.

DCro is one of my fave active directors. "Crash" is one of the best films of the last 10 years and "eXistenZ" is up there as well. I thought "Violence" was enthralling. And I love his trashy stuff too--Marilyn Chambers should have won an Oscar for "Rabid".

"Promises" is getting so many mainstream raves because, ultimately, it's pretty mainstream.

[Cronenfly]

The question is, how many more 'stop gap movies' is he going to produce before he pulls out something to equal his earlier work?

I found Spider good and History of Violence mediocre, but neither of them rivalled eXistenZ.

You've made me realize how much of a Cronenberg apologist I really am: despite my best efforts, I never found A History of Violence to be as enthralling as many other people, and I'm not really liking the general career direction Cronenberg is taking as of late. Spider, for me, was the point in his most recent work where I thought he really reached his apex, and since then has moved on to more conventional stories. I'm not a huge Crash or eXistenZ fan, either: I suppose I'm stuck on '80s Cronenberg, beginning with Videodrome in '82 and ending with Naked Lunch in '91. It isn't that I'm not open to him going in new directions: I think that's great, but I feel that he could be doing more interesting work than he is (re: all the projects he was rumoured to be connected to before Eastern Promises took precedence). I still have the utmost faith in Cronenberg, though, so I'm not too worried.

[rs98762001]

The much heralded bath scene is notable mainly for the obvious effort taken in the framing and choreography to minimize appearances of Viggo's wienie. So much for artistic daring.

I enjoyed the scene's brutality, but yeah I have to admit it did bring back memories of both the Austin Powers framing-out-the-naughty-bits schtick and the Borat wrestling scene.

[Antoine Doinel]

Perhaps you'll have to wait for the unrated and uh, "extended" edition

[rs98762001]

Perhaps you'll have to wait for the unrated and uh, "extended" edition

Sorry to break the news to Viggo fans, but there's very little about his anatomy which looks "extended."

[souvenir]

I saw this last night as well (with Barmy, apparently). I disagree with most of the complaints, even if the ending feels perfunctory. It's Cronenberg and a continuation of the sexuality and violence that runs through all of this work. It's all there, just in a more traditional narrative. I think sexuality and intimacy play a bigger role here than in A History of Violence.

No deleted scenes of the fight or anything else for the DVD. Cronenberg made clear that he doesn't like holding onto those and hesitantly made an exception for A History of Violence. I also think the criticisms of the fight sequence are somewhat absurd. It works perfectly in the context of the film as realistic and lingering shots otherwise would have been distractingly inappropriate. I don't think Cronenberg was going for titillation in that scene. It's a horrific, nauseating climax of homoerotic violence that encapsulates much of the movie.

[Robotron]

But for me Cronenberg's true genius is in his complex narratives. If we remove all complexities and focus strictly on the subject matter, Cronenberg is little more than a seller of smut and moral essays.

I may be the only one, but I'm tired of people proclaiming art to be great and worthwhile because it's socially responsible. I don't think art exists to be my surrogate Sunday school, and few lectures are more common or simple minded than the cliched "violence is REAL!" which Cronenberg unfortunately seems to find very profound recently. Really, his new movies are just remakes of some of the basic ideas of his old films for dummies.

I want the man responsible for Videodrome back, as opposed to this pretentious pornographer.

[Cronenfly]

Thanks for saying so well and succinctly what I failed to: you hit the nail on the head in regards to my feelings about the recent works of Cronenberg. I'm not sure I'd be quite so critical, but I'm definitely in general agreement.

[Cronenfly]

Nothing much to add about what's been said of EP. Mortensen is believable and comfortable in a role for the first time, IMO. I also thought that, despite Cassel's (enjoyable) overacting, he and Mortensen made an excellent acting duo. Could've done with a bit more fleshing out of the relationship between Cassel and Mueller-Stahl, but that's a minor complaint compared to the inane plotting. All of the VO, midwife, journal and baby content should have been dropped and replaced with something more interesting from the beginning: it just dilutes the parts of the movie that do work. The bath house scene was also disappointing, just going through the motions to be provacative and ending up with a scene we've seen in countless other movies pushed just a teensy bit further than any hack would. Not to associate Cronenberg with hack-dom: the film is well-crafted throughout, but just not in a way that transcends the tropes he's working with: same goes for his handling of the film's violence, which brings nothing new to the table. Also, a reveal about the Mortensen character rings false, or is at least unnecessary (he could've just been honourable, say, where instead he's given an explicit reason for acting the way he does). Watts is also utterly superfluous: there was a time where I didn't mind her, but that time is coming to an end. The Russian milieu is nicely handled (except for one musical performance midway through: yeesh), and the same goes for the London locales. The film's conclusion is abrupt and not qute fitting, but by that time it reads like the rest of the movie: just passing time, which I didn't think would bother me going in, but I was hoping for a little more.

[jorencain]

All of the VO, midwife, journal and baby content should have been dropped and replaced with something more interesting from the beginning: it just dilutes the parts of the movie that do work.

I don't understand this reasoning... that's what the movie is ABOUT, as well as what propels the plot. It's about the girl looking for a better life, and then finding out the terrible reality. If those things were removed, then there would be no plot. I think it works very well, and it's the emotional core of the movies.

Unfortunately, I do agree that the film isn't Cronenberg's best. I liked it a lot, but it feels like something is missing. I can't put my finger on it, but it seems incomplete, as if each of the strands could've been taken further. I need to see it again or let it stew in my brain for a while before coming to a final decision about it, but I would definitely recommend it.

[Cronenfly]

All of the VO, midwife, journal and baby content should have been dropped and replaced with something more interesting from the beginning: it just dilutes the parts of the movie that do work.

I don't understand this reasoning... that's what the movie is ABOUT, as well as what propels the plot. It's about the girl looking for a better life, and then finding out the terrible reality. If those things were removed, then there would be no plot. I think it works very well, and it's the emotional core of the movies.

Fair enough: I just had a fundamental problem with the movie's sections dealing with Watts, the prostitute, the baby, etc., I suppose. It's true that there would be very little left with all of this removed, but I just felt that the Russian gangster milieu was the film's strongest facet, and that the movie would've been better served with a different plot to explore that world. I felt that most of the Watts stuff as well as the prostitute and her experience was just padding to have an entry point into the mob (same with the baby, the journal, and so on). The movie could've had another, less obvious emotional core to it, rather than Watts/ the prostitute/ the baby, all the related content of which I found rather formulaic. It feels like Cronenberg really cares about the gangland stuff, so I think he should have found a more organic way to explore that rather than muddle the movie with hoary old narrative strands and plot-point only characters. I'm willing to admit, though, that I could be off-base in criticizing the movie for this: I just firmly believe that the film could've been more interesting than it is by dropping some of its (IMO) narrative dead weight in exchange for something more interesting. The aspects of the movie you describe as being what the movie's about and its central plot points were to me its biggest turnoffs: call me crazy, but they just didn't work in away that was at all interesting or fresh.

[souvenir]

I don't think it's narrative dead weight at all. The idea of Russian immigrants being turned into prostitutes follows a similar theme as Dirty Pretty Things, also written by Steven Knight. That seems like the overarching point of the movie. Mortensen is to Eastern Promises what Chiwetel Ejiofor was to Dirty Pretty Things. The Russian gangster angle is really secondary.

[Antoine Doinel]

David Cronenberg's Preparation for Directing "Eastern Promises"

[miless]

David Cronenberg's Preparation for Directing "Eastern Promises"

I was wondering if Viggo's line about "The Zone" was a sly reference to Stalker.

[Oedipax]

I was wondering if Viggo's line about "The Zone" was a sly reference to Stalker.

I thought the same thing - that's a pretty curious scene in general.

Something else that has occurred to me - Peter Greenaway has mentioned being approached by an enthusiastic Cronenberg after a screening of A Zed and Two Noughts, where he had all sorts of questions about the film's treatment of twinship. Greenaway observes that a few years later, Dead Ringers emerged. We could maybe draw some lines between the notion of writing the text upon the body in The Pillow Book and Eastern Promises, but I recall Cronenberg saying somewhere he hasn't seen Greenaway's more recent films.

[jorencain]

I was wondering if Viggo's line about "The Zone" was a sly reference to Stalker.

I thought the same thing. I don't know why, but it immediately popped into my mind.

[Cronenfly]

I don't think it's narrative dead weight at all. The idea of Russian immigrants being turned into prostitutes follows a similar theme as Dirty Pretty Things, also written by Steven Knight. That seems like the overarching point of the movie. Mortensen is to Eastern Promises what Chiwetel Ejiofor was to Dirty Pretty Things. The Russian gangster angle is really secondary.

Agree to disagree, I guess: I found the diary entries and the central prostitute angle to be pretty obvious, and I wasn't at all engaged by it (the VO delivery for the diary I also found pretty poor overall, as well as the text for it being uninspired). That isn't to say the prostitute angle couldn't have been interesting: I just found it poorly integrated and none-too novel. Primary point of the movie or not, it just didn't involve me like the gangster material. Perhaps part of it was going in expecting a different movie than I got, but even so I feel that the aforementioned lacking aspects of the movie could've been handled better. It could also depend on whether you see the film's auteur as being Cronenberg or Knight, I guess.
EDIT- I do very much so intend to give the film another viewing: when I saw it, I was admittedly somewhat drowsy, and the mob content (especially in regards to the performances and overall mood of the film in the portions most directly involving the mob) was what best held my attention. In the state I was in, I was perhaps not ready for the prostitute content, Watts, the baby, etc to be such a large part of the narrative, and, perhaps, the place where its true importance/resonance lies. I'm still not sold on this outlook, but I'm willing to try to see it this way next time around.

[miless]

Something else that has occurred to me - Peter Greenaway has mentioned being approached by an enthusiastic Cronenberg after a screening of A Zed and Two Noughts, where he had all sorts of questions about the film's treatment of twinship. Greenaway observes that a few years later, Dead Ringers emerged. We could maybe draw some lines between the notion of writing the text upon the body in The Pillow Book and Eastern Promises, but I recall Cronenberg saying somewhere he hasn't seen Greenaway's more recent films.

I wonder what Greenaway thinks of Cronenberg's films?

[Robotron]

I've been unable to find the exact interview, but Greenaway said something to the effect of losing interest in Cronenberg's recent work because it has consisted of little more than illustrating sensationalist novels.