Juno (Jason Reitman, 2007)

[sidehacker]

This pretty much confirms what I think is the mindset of most people eager to turn their noses at Juno - people don't want to be associated with something that might be popular.

Tell that to Ray Carney....Juno (and films of that ilk) wants it both ways, though. It wants to be hip and "different" from the mainstream but at the same time it also wants you to buy it's "hip" merchandise. I think you missed the last part of the quote about how it's for people who think they're above crowedpleasers. There's a lot of people who are going to mistaken this as the alternative to the mainstream and it's not. I'm not going to like this movie in the same way I don't like other bland, uninteresting mainstream films.

Moreover, what's wrong with a crowd-pleaser? If done well, they can be some of the best movie going experiences out there.

This is not something people have just decided to dislike because they hate the "quirky" trend but crowd pleasers, at least to me, have always been the lowest form of cinema. Above all things, though, I just cannot get over how awful the dialogue in the trailers are. You can just see the woman who wrote this at her desk giggling at her own clever lines, which are things that people don't ever say in real life!

[Antoine Doinel]

There's a lot of people who are going to mistaken this as the alternative to the mainstream and it's not.

Who is going to mistake a film being promoted on every cable TV station and being previewed on Entertainment Tonight as being an alternative to the mainstream?

[portnoy]

Let's step away from this debate about that Reverse Shot review (which I agree with - the movie is basically a look-how-cool-you-are handjob for its audience) and get back to the big picture:

Guys, this movie is really mediocre. There are things to recommend about it, and certainly in light of Jason Reitman's first (awful) film, it stands as a remarkable improvement, but there are a lot of things wrong with it, many of which that RS review touch on:

1) The dialogue - Painfully overwritten, and not even in a way that sounds particularly interestingly stylized (cf. Whit Stillman's films). As someone on another board pointed out, nearly every character speaks like a sassy blogger in her late 20s. At times, it's so overwritten it's just really painful, and you can see the actors struggling to get the more mealy-mouthed sentiments out.

2) The characterization - uneven and incomplete at best. Too often the film falls back on character quirks as a substitute for actual characterization. Many of these quirks transparently read as the writer trying to show off her own coolness or knowledge: when a pair of characters start discussing one's taste for Herschell Gordon Lewis movies, it rings falser than any other moment I've seen in a cinema this year.

Granted, it's been a solid three months since I saw this movie for the first time, but I really just remember being totally unimpressed with the goings-on of the film.

[sidehacker]

Who is going to mistake a film being promoted on every cable TV station and being previewed on Entertainment Tonight as being an alternative to the mainstream?

Oh come on, this has "little indie film that could" written all over it. Your question is obviously rhetorical but I could easily answer it by simply saying "stupid people, or more cynically, most of America." They'll see this film and feel cultured yet still safe.

1) The dialogue - Painfully overwritten, and not even in a way that sounds particularly interestingly stylized (cf. Whit Stillman's films). As someone on another board pointed out, nearly every character speaks like a sassy blogger in her late 20s. At times, it's so overwritten it's just really painful, and you can see the actors struggling to get the more mealy-mouthed sentiments out.

Exactly! Plus, I'm only deducing this from seeing the trailers. I absolutely hate in films when characters are able to completely articulate how they feel.

[Antoine Doinel]

Who is going to mistake a film being promoted on every cable TV station and being previewed on Entertainment Tonight as being an alternative to the mainstream?

Oh come on, this has "little indie film that could" written all over it. Your question is obviously rhetorical but I could easily answer it by simply saying "stupid people, or more cynically, most of America." They'll see this film and feel cultured yet still safe.

I think you're giving "stupid people" far too much credit. Most people will probably go "Hey, it's that guy from Superbad" and buy a ticket.

[Noir of the Night]

The movie annoyed the hell out of me for the first half hour or so, what with the pop culture references and snark and self-impressed writing and etc., etc., etc. I was prepared to write the film off. But then a funny thing happened on the way to the forum, so to speak: there's this scene where Jennifer Garner feels the baby kick for the first time and has this kind of beatific look on her face, and I had this feeling in my stomach, a feeling that I later realized was warmth. All of the labored attempts at being witty and hip were annoying and unnecessary, but there's a sweet movie hidden underneath it all, and that movie made me smile. Cera and Garner are a huge part of what makes this work, their characters have this kind of innocence that remains untouched by the self-conscious sarcasm of the rest of the film. So, I can't give this a bad review, it actually made me feel goodwill of all things.

PS: It would have been a much better movie without her cheerleader friend, man was that character fucking annoying.

[jbeall]

The movie annoyed the hell out of me for the first half hour or so, what with the pop culture references and snark and self-impressed writing and etc., etc., etc. I was prepared to write the film off. But then a funny thing happened on the way to the forum, so to speak[...]

A.O. Scott had the same reaction.

The first time I saw “Juno,â€

[Soothsayer]

Some theater programmer w/guts should double-feature this w/L'enfant

[toiletduck!]

A.O. Scott had the same reaction.

So did Starlee Kine in the latest issue of Film Comment.

Often if there's an ending I don't like to an otherwise fine film, I'll advise a friend to walk out five minutes before the movie is over. No one has ever taken me up on this, or even pretended that they would, which is okay, I understand. With Juno, directed by Jason Reitman, I have the opposite advice: definitely stay until the end. It's the beginning you might want to miss.

-Toilet Dcuk

[Noir of the Night]

I have to admit that with movie prices being what they are, I'm in no rush to see this in theaters, but I'm intrigued enough that I'll definitely catch it on dvd. Perhaps Juno is an elaborate bait-and-switch designed to trick self-conscious hipsters into the theater long enough to watch an actual movie.

That's an interesting thought. And yeah, this is essentially a DVD movie, nothing about it calls out for the theater experience. I'm not sure I would have even seen it in theaters had it not been one of the free screening. Do check it out though, it's good enough for me to willingly eat crow about the shit I talked on page two. I was wrong.

[patrick]

So should I expect a quick wide rollout (Borat-style) given the insane press this thing is getting? I was planning on checking it out this weekend but I was kind of surprised that it seems to be getting a fairly limited release right now.

[Jeff]

So should I expect a quick wide rollout (Borat-style) given the insane press this thing is getting? I was planning on checking it out this weekend but I was kind of surprised that it seems to be getting a fairly limited release right now.

Only seven screens this weekend, but it will open in major cities on the 14th, and should have a fairly wide release by Christmas.

[akaten]

I'm not sure what's worse: judging a movie without seeing it or criticizing it for what it isn't.

So what do you think of the film? You've certainly been eager to defend it throughout this thread...

Trailers and clips make it look like a feature length version of the god awful 7th Heaven, but I may see it if only to form my own opinion rather than have others form the basis of mine.

[Shrew]

Wow... bringing out 7th Heaven has to be the lowest blow I've ever seen a movie take. It's even bothering to aim at the gut; you just want to hit the nuts.

Considering it's scripted by a former stripper named Diablo, I don't think it's going to be 7th Heaven: The Movie. Exploitative and annoying, maybe, but at least it'll be lower on the Christian Hypocrisy.

[filmnoir1]

While this film will defintely receive critical and Oscar buzz, I have to say that is an overly trifling efort to combine hip vernacular with warm, fuzzy emotions. Not only does the so-called hip speak overwhelm the film and the narrative it also illustrates just how out of touch with American youth these filmmakers and writers are. At times the language subsumes even the visuals and this is quite problematic, especially this film is relying on the visual tradtions of comic books, and quirky films like American Splendour that bridge the gap between painted art and cinema.
I respect the young actress who plays Juno's performance, but this does not deflect the film's multiple deficiencies. Why is that cliche has know become great art and hip? This movie illustrates two phenomenon in American culture and cinema today. The first being that independent cinema, a la Sundance is dead. Sundance once a vital proving ground for young directors and innovative material is now rote with cliches such as dysfunctional families, young female adolescents who struggle with their sexuality, or white suburban guilt that manifests itself in bloated examples of kindness and generosity. The second is that everything has become grist for the culture mill so that there is indeed in this post-modern morass called contemporary America no awareness of the consequences or problems with continually spewing out these inert forms of cliche.

[patrick]

This could be huge - it made $60,000 per screen on the seven screens it was actually on this weekend.

[Antoine Doinel]

The first being that independent cinema, a la Sundance is dead.

Sigh. Can we put a moratorium on the "Juno isn't really an independent film" argument? We all know that qualifies these days as "independent" (ie. films from smaller divisions of larger studios) is pretty much bullshit, but I don't think Juno is claiming to be "indie". It's going wide in a couple of weeks, it's going to be huge and generally, truly indie films don't get week long profiles on entertainment shows.

If the Indie Spirit Awards (as vague and meaningless an awards ceremony as the Oscars) are any indication, truly indie cinema died a horrible death a long time ago.

[justeleblanc]

I don't know about that, MUTUAL APPRECIATION is pretty independent.

[terabin]

I don't know about that, MUTUAL APPRECIATION is pretty independent.

Mumblecore!

[flyonthewall2983]

Jamie Lynn Spears vs. Juno

[Carson Dyle]

I'm with those who hated the first half hour, but grew to appreciate what the filmmakers had on their minds.

I find it slightly amusing that people are so up in arms about the stylized hipster dialogue, like it's some kind of crime against nature. Because, you know, it's the law that movies have to have hyper-realisitic dialogue. (Take that Double Indemnity.)

My take is that without the faux hipster dialogue, the script wouldn't have gotten any attention. It would have been tossed into the trash along with all the other warm and fuzzy female-centric scripts that nobody wants to make because nobody gives a shit about movies told from an actual human female person's POV. Sure, it plays a little arch at times, but Stripper Girl did what she could to get noticed. Good for her. I'd much rather see a movie written by someone who actually knows how to turn a phrase than have to suffer through most of the crap that passes for comedy these days.

[Matt]

I find it slightly amusing that people are so up in arms about the stylized hipster dialogue, like it's some kind of crime against nature. Because, you know, it's the law that movies have to have hyper-realisitic dialogue. (Take that Double Indemnity.)

There's a big, big difference between:

Phyllis: There's a speed limit in this state, Mr. Neff. Forty-five miles an hour.
Walter Neff: How fast was I going, officer?
Phyllis: I'd say around ninety.
Walter Neff: Suppose you get down off your motorcycle and give me a ticket.
Phyllis: Suppose I let you off with a warning this time.
Walter Neff: Suppose it doesn't take.
Phyllis: Suppose I have to whack you over the knuckles.
Walter Neff: Suppose I bust out crying and put my head on your shoulder.
Phyllis: Suppose you try putting it on my husband's shoulder.
Walter Neff: That tears it.

and

Rollo: Maybe you're having twins. Maybe your little boyfriend's got mutant sperms and he knocked you up twice!
Juno: Silencio! I just drank my weight in Sunny D and I have to go, pronto.
Rollo: Well, you know where the lavatory key is. You pay for that pee stick when you're done! Don't think it's your just because you've marked it with your urine!
Juno: Jesus, I didn't say it was.
Rollo: Well, it's not. You're not a lion in a pride! These kids, acting like lions with their unplanned pregnancies and their Sunny Delights.
...
Rollo: So what's the prognosis, Fertile Myrtle? Plus or minus?
Juno: I don't know. It's not... seasoned yet. Wait. Huh. Yeah, there's that pink plus sign again. God, it's unholy. (She shakes the stick)
Rollo: That ain't no Etch-a-Sketch. This is one doodle that can't be undid, homeskillet.

You don't have to have a tin ear to realize that the former is some of the best movie dialogue ever written and the latter is some of the worst. It's like it was generated by a small child using one of those Magnetic Poetry kits, Vintage American Slang edition. If that's "turning a phrase," I'm Marianne Moore.

[rs98762001]

Just seeing that written on paper again makes me feel ill. Hopefully that's the first and last time Juno's dialogue will ever be mentioned in the same breath as Double Indemnity or, indeed, anything good.

[Steven H]

"Fertile Myrtle"? "Homeskillet"?

ugh. Everyone on page 14 of the Darjeeling Limited thread needs to go watch Juno.

[Matt]

Or how about this choice nugget:

Leah (answering phone): Yo-yo-yiggity-yo.
Juno: I am a suicide risk.
Leah: Is this Juno?
Juno: No it's Morgan Freeman. Got any bones that need collecting?
Leah: Only the one in my pants.
Juno: Dude, I'm pregnant.
Leah: Maybe it's just a food baby. Did you have a big lunch?
Juno: It's not a food baby. I took three pregnancy tests today. I am definitely up the spout.

and so forth...