Dick Tracy (Warren Beatty, 1990)

[Fletch F. Fletch]

I have to tell you that The Shadow was one of the two biggest (movie) disappointments of my childhood. I was probably one of the few kids, in the 80's and 90's, who spent a lot of time listening to the 30's radio programme. The movie threw much of the formula of the character into the garbage and reconfigured the script to match what the producers thought people wanted to see in a comic book movie. I simply cannot express enough how much that film *HURT* me.

I agree. The script was definitely the film's weakest element... even by comic book film adaptation standards. The dialogue was just so clunky and bland. I would have loved to see them adapt Howard Chaykin's, controversial, revisionist take The Shadow, but oh well...

The replacement team who lobbied quite heavily for the picture was none other than Sam Raimi (as writer-director) and the Coen brothers (as co-writers). Much like with Batman, the studio passed on Raimi and thus Darkman was born. Several years later, the intensely mediocre Russell Mulcahy would adapt David Koepp's script and yield one of the most forgettable pulp adaptations of all time.

Definitely. Mulcahy's direction was fine but, as I said above, Koepp's script was weak. I would have LOVED to have seen Raimi/Coen bros.' take on the material. I was quite excited when it was announced a few months ago that Raimi might be working on a new Shadow film altho, it sounds like his roster is full for the next few years what with an upcoming horror film and possibly directing The Hobbit films.

As for The Phantom... it's ok. I agree that it holds that atmosphere and feel. I have no qualms admitting that I even own it. At least the people who made that movie seemed to care about the character, and the intentionally over-the-top humor (Treat Williams, especially) has it's moments.

Exactly. A Billy Zane certainly looks the part. He's got those retro, matinee-idol looks appropriate for the role. Not to mention James Remar playing one of the baddies!

I thought Sky Captain pullled it off for the first half hour, but then slowly drifted into more of an artificial mockery of the type of movie it was trying to be, rather than something authentic. Interesting attempt, though.

It's the look of the film that gets me every time. So rich in detail and atmosphere that I'm willing to overlook the flimsy characterization and grating relationship between Jude Law and Gwyneth Paltrow. That opening shot of the zeppelin docking with the Empire State Building is just so incredible.

Tron ended up selling so much on DVD that it shocked Disney and they immediately request the license be returned so that they could capitalize on an interest they had previously ignored completely. So just like with Tron, they have to be convinced by an outside force (or vendor) that there is money to be made with special editions of these films.

Sadly, The Rocketeer doesn't have as rabid a fanbase so I don't think we'll see an SE DVD of it any time soon which is a damn shame but I could see one for Dick Tracy if Beatty and the studio could finally hash out all the legal entanglements.

[colinr0380]

It's the look of the film that gets me every time. So rich in detail and atmosphere that I'm willing to overlook the flimsy characterization and grating relationship between Jude Law and Gwyneth Paltrow. That opening shot of the zeppelin docking with the Empire State Building is just so incredible.

True, and Angelina Jolie is pitch perfect in her scenes!

Thinking about botched comic book to film adaptations during that period, what in heck went wrong with Judge Dredd? (Apart from casting Rob Schneider as the comic sidekick and turning the story from Dredd being a representative of a wider facist society to just being a misunderstood, slightly uptight guy - Robocop without the irony.)

[Fletch F. Fletch]

Thinking about botched comic book to film adaptations during that period, what in heck went wrong with Judge Dredd? (Apart from casting Rob Schneider as the comic sidekick and turning the story from Dredd being a representative of a wider facist society to just being a misunderstood, slightly uptight guy - Robocop without the irony.)

Yeah, Dredd and Tank Girl are two of the biggest disappointments for me in the comic book adaptation area. Man, they were butchered!

Personally, I have found that RoboCop and Darkman are two of the best comic book films not adapted from any existing comic book!

[DrewReiber]

Definitely. Mulcahy's direction was fine but, as I said above, Koepp's script was weak.

I dunno, I didn't care for a lot of the choices he made. The completely unneccesary extreme closeups to CGI monster face is one that immediately comes to mind. A lot of the film felt like soundstages too.

You can also tell the editor was trying to get around the way the film was shot, especially during the last scene which you can tell was cut to ribbons just to get the credits rolling and let people go. I really think they knew they were in trouble by post, judging by a lot of choices including that completely inappropriate and mid-movie scrolling text.

I would have LOVED to have seen Raimi/Coen bros.' take on the material. I was quite excited when it was announced a few months ago that Raimi might be working on a new Shadow film altho, it sounds like his roster is full for the next few years what with an upcoming horror film and possibly directing The Hobbit films.

Yeah, that Raimi/Coen movie would have been something. Hell, the Zemeckis/Gale movie would have been worth it. I just hope that Raimi can prove everyone wrong with Drag Me To Hell, after the nightmare that was Spider-Man 3. Man, not even the cast or crew had anything nice to say about that film. I can wait for him to finish the Hobbit if Hell shows Raimi still has it together, but if not I'm just going to write off ever seeing a decent Shadow.

Sadly, The Rocketeer doesn't have as rabid a fanbase so I don't think we'll see an SE DVD of it any time soon which is a damn shame but I could see one for Dick Tracy if Beatty and the studio could finally hash out all the legal entanglements.

I think you would be very surprised at the number of people who hold that movie highly. Also, I can't stress enough that this rights thing has *nothing* to do with the DVD. What's holding up a special edition is that Disney shutdown their special edition department for contemporary features. They just don't care right now.

Thinking about botched comic book to film adaptations during that period, what in heck went wrong with Judge Dredd? (Apart from casting Rob Schneider as the comic sidekick and turning the story from Dredd being a representative of a wider facist society to just being a misunderstood, slightly uptight guy - Robocop without the irony.)

I'm in the midst of researching that, as my friends and I are also perplexed by the bizarre missteps in that adaptation. I mean, if you look at the production design, it *LOOKS* like everything is right. But then all of a sudden people start talking and Rob Schneider shows up and you get the feeling that he was a last minute edition and the script was turned into garbage shortly after set construction commenced.

Nothing about Schneider's character seems relevant to the on set material or critical to the plot and his introduction involves being placed inside what looks like some props they just put together. Looking at it from that production standpoint, it just seems like there was a lot of rewriting just before shooting.

As such, I'm trying to hunt down the previous drafts of the script. That's not a particularly difficult thing to do, but I need to hurry up before some of these LA poster stores start shutting down their script departments. I also found some magazines chronicling production from the time, so I assume there may be further clarification there too.

Yeah, Dredd and Tank Girl are two of the biggest disappointments for me in the comic book adaptation area. Man, they were butchered!

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I would be willing to put money down that Edgar Wright is hoping to get a crack at a remake of Dredd sometime before his career ends (which is far, far away).

Personally, I have found that RoboCop and Darkman are two of the best comic book films not adapted from any existing comic book!

And Buckaroo Banzai Across the Eigth Dimension!!!

[colinr0380]

I'm in the midst of researching that, as my friends and I are also perplexed by the bizarre missteps in that adaptation. I mean, if you look at the production design, it *LOOKS* like everything is right. But then all of a sudden people start talking and Rob Schneider shows up and you get the feeling that he was a last minute edition and the script was turned into garbage shortly after set construction commenced.

Nothing about Schneider's character seems relevant to the on set material or critical to the plot and his introduction involves being placed inside what looks like some props they just put together. Looking at it from that production standpoint, it just seems like there was a lot of rewriting just before shooting.

As such, I'm trying to hunt down the previous drafts of the script. That's not a particularly difficult thing to do, but I need to hurry up before some of these LA poster stores start shutting down their script departments. I also found some magazines chronicling production from the time, so I assume there may be further clarification there too.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Rob Schneider character was there in early drafts and then got 'corrupted'. It seems as if this would be the perfect way of showing someone on the bottom of the society getting kicked around by hardened criminals and having to commit petty crimes to get by at which point they then get punished by the brutality of the law itself which only takes a black and white point of view of things. The film even starts taking this approach but it is handicapped by the scenes with Dredd himself in which both his girl and his boss lecture him on how unemotional and brutal he is being in the way he works, which shows how Dredd is more of an individual in his facist approach to his work than a representative of a collective societal dystopia.

The film then goes on to show a relatively 'caring' ruling council trying to deal with violence on the streets in the best way they can against real terrorist attacks and unjustified rebellion against them - this reduces the conflict in the film to a simple good guy vs bad guy situation.

And then the film has the nerve to suggest the old conservative Dirty Harry theory that we really need brutal people like Dredd to protect us because all the other Judges are nerdy weaklings. That would work as a message if the whole film is ironic but when the girl making impassioned speeches against Dredd's earlier actions ends up being converted and making doe eyes at his power I was left with the feeling that everything was meant to be taken at face value. (Stallone's earlier Demolition Man dealt with very similar themes with much more success)

Dredd was one of the more infuriating foul ups as such promising material was changed at every stage to force the story into the buddy/cop movie mould with no attention paid to how that would destroy the internal structure of the material itself.

In some ways I think the film could have worked with that generic structure (it would be a good way to introduce audiences to the world using plotting familiar from other films) but that is the problem with adaptations/remakes - even major changes can be acceptable, but when they actually interfere with the fundamentals, the perspective the story is told with or basic reasons for wanting to adapt/remake a project in the first place they destroy the whole reason for doing such a project (except for making money from fans dutifully going to see the result!)

I would bet that earlier drafts were quite faithful to the spirit of the comic and everything got slowly twisted further away as people with less knowledge of the original material got involved in drafting or adding their ideas until the philosophy behind the film got badly muddled.

[domino harvey]

If I can remember back twelve years, I do recall reading in the venerable Cinescape magazine that the initial script involved Dredd and a twin or clone Judge (some storyline from the comic, which I'm obviously not familiar with) but then the studio wanted to leave that open for a sequel so they basically stretched out the first 30 minutes into a feature film. Whoops.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

You can also tell the editor was trying to get around the way the film was shot, especially during the last scene which you can tell was cut to ribbons just to get the credits rolling and let people go. I really think they knew they were in trouble by post, judging by a lot of choices including that completely inappropriate and mid-movie scrolling text.

It's been awhile since I've seen the film but yeah, it did seem a bit of a mess, editing-wise. I wouldn't be surprised if they had to rush the post-production schedule in order to get the film out on time.

I think you would be very surprised at the number of people who hold that movie highly.

Yeah, I think that a lot of people discovered that film on home video 'cos I can remember seeing it in theaters and there weren't too many people there!

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I would be willing to put money down that Edgar Wright is hoping to get a crack at a remake of Dredd sometime before his career ends (which is far, far away).

Yeah, I could see him doing that. Hopefully, he'll get a chance to take it on.

And Buckaroo Banzai Across the Eigth Dimension!!!

Ah, don't even get me started on that underrated gem of a movie! "It's not even my goddamn planet, monkey boy!"

[J Chastain]

I would bet that earlier drafts were quite faithful to the spirit of the comic and everything got slowly twisted further away as people with less knowledge of the original material got involved in drafting or adding their ideas until the philosophy behind the film got badly muddled.

From the Block Wars opening to the Angel Gang showing up in the Cursed Earth, the movie is completely filled with characters and situations from the comics, yet nothing that's happening actually matches the tone or the satirical spirit of the original books. It definitely seems that someone went to the trouble of stitching a lot of stuff from the comics together in one script and then someone else got hired to un-do a lot of that. I question the wisdom of using Judge Rico and the clone stuff for a film version at all, but I'd like to see how it was handled if there are drafts that exist before the final rewrites.

I thought the Rob Schneider character was superfluous enough that he could easily have been completely fabricated by a writer who was looking for a way to shoe-horn Schneider in the movie.

I would also like to see Edgar Wright make a Judge Dredd movie. I don't know what'll happen to the Dredd film rights, though. Any talk about Rebellion making a new Dredd film seems to have ceased in 2004 and I saw (through comics2film) some recent talk that indicated they've been selling off options to the 2000 AD characters.

As for Tracy, I enjoy the film and I'd like to see a better cut if one exists because it would probably fix some problems; I recall the movie really losing steam around the midpoint before picking up again at the end. It would also be interesting to give it a re-watch after reading several of the Dick Tracy reprint volumes IDW's currently putting out.

[David Ehrenstein]

Ah, don't even get me started on that underrated gem of a movie! "It's not even my goddamn planet, monkey boy!"

You're quite right, Fletch. Buckroo rendered Tracy obsolete. But I think nostalgia for the old-fashioned uncomplicated hero was the reason why Beatty wanted to make the film in the first place. Storaro's lighting of those very complicated sets ( plus the CGI work) is a very expensive version of the sort of thing Raul Ruiz has been doing for $1.35 for years (see especially Memoires des Apparances )

Still I'd love to see a longer cut. This film is celaryl more than a memento of his affair with Madonna.

And "Sooner or Later" and "What Can You Lose?" are two of Sondheim's very best songs.

[Dylan]

( plus the CGI work)

These were old-fashioned matte paintings and miniatures, actually (and for my money, 100 times more beautiful than the best CGI I've seen).

[THX1378]

As for Tracy, I enjoy the film and I'd like to see a better cut if one exists because it would probably fix some problems;

Beatty has comfermed in more than one interview that there is a 135 minute version of the film. He was made by Katzenberg to cut the film down to a 105 minute running time. There was talk back I want to say around 2003 or 2004 that a Vista SE dvd was going to start to be worked on. The problem I think is that Beatty hates doing any features for his films. He even states in the interview on the Reds documentary that he doesn't get why there doing this at all for the dvd.

Yeah, Dredd and Tank Girl are two of the biggest disappointments for me in the comic book adaptation area. Man, they were butchered!

I used to love Tank Girl when I was in high school. I think it was because I thought it was so hip in a cool punk/grunge way. I watched it a month ago and I can't stand the film now. One of my friends still loves the hell out of it, but has never read any of the comics that it's based on. Dredd turned out bad from what I've read and heard because Cannon and Stallone had many creative disputes. Cannon stated that the final version of the film is completely different from the script and vision that he had. This is mostly due to changes Stallone demanded be made in the film. Also, Stallone made the changes/added in the Fergie character first offering it to Joe Pesci, then to Rob Schneider after Pesci turned it down. And one more thing, I still think the first Crow film holds up and is still pretty well done film for what it is. I hope someday one day that we get a better edtion of the film than whats out now.

[Taketori Washizu]

Self indulgent garbage. I hate everything about this film, right down to the casting of Madonna. Crap.

[Mr Sausage]

Self indulgent garbage. I hate everything about this film, right down to the casting of Madonna. Crap.

Let's try to keep trolling to a minimum (I also would suggest everyone ignore the above post).

[Fletch F. Fletch]

But I think nostalgia for the old-fashioned uncomplicated hero was the reason why Beatty wanted to make the film in the first place. Storaro's lighting of those very complicated sets ( plus the CGI work) is a very expensive version of the sort of thing Raul Ruiz has been doing for $1.35 for years (see especially Memoires des Apparances )

Still I'd love to see a longer cut.

Me too. I always felt that the film was a little too busy and felt rushed. It would be nice to see a longer version that let things breathe a little more.

These were old-fashioned matte paintings and miniatures, actually (and for my money, 100 times more beautiful than the best CGI I've seen).

Yeah, I love matte paintings as well. I was surprised to learn that on Fincher's Zodiac commentary track that despite all the CGI in the film he still used matte paintings for some of the background scenery shots!

Beatty has comfermed in more than one interview that there is a 135 minute version of the film. He was made by Katzenberg to cut the film down to a 105 minute running time. There was talk back I want to say around 2003 or 2004 that a Vista SE dvd was going to start to be worked on. The problem I think is that Beatty hates doing any features for his films.

That's a damn shame. Hopefully, someone will get the ball rolling on this SE DVD again. I'd be interested to know what kinda footage makes up the 30 minutes he was forced to cut?

I used to love Tank Girl when I was in high school. I think it was because I thought it was so hip in a cool punk/grunge way. I watched it a month ago and I can't stand the film now. One of my friends still loves the hell out of it, but has never read any of the comics that it's based on.

It's funny to watch it now and see a virtually unknown (at the time) Naomi Watts as Tank Girl's sidekick with the knowledge of the "respectable" films she's done since.

And one more thing, I still think the first Crow film holds up and is still pretty well done film for what it is. I hope someday one day that we get a better edtion of the film than whats out now.

Yeah, I really dig the first Crow film as well. Great soundtrack too. NIN, Jesus and Mary Chain, Thrill Kill Kult, Helmet, Pantera, et al. Awesome.

[aox]

has the live action pilot from 67 ever circulated? Some people claim to have seen it.

and I remember liking this movie, but I was 10. Need to see it again.

[dr. calamari]

has the live action pilot from 67 ever circulated? Some people claim to have seen it.

and I remember liking this movie, but I was 10. Need to see it again.

Some clips turned up on YouTube a few months ago...the make-up on some of the villains was pretty good, but it was otherwise pretty forgettable.

Dick Tracy turned up at WalMart for $7.50 a few weeks ago when they were having a "superhero" movie promo...I didn't pick one up because I know I'd never watch it (saw it in 1990 or whenever it came out), and I like the old RKO Dick Tracy series. Especially Dick Tracy Meets Gruesome.

[Antoine Doinel]

Beatty heads to court again to battle for the rights for Dick Tracy.

[dx23]

Beatty heads to court again to battle for the rights for Dick Tracy.

Just read that over at IMDB and I keep wondering how hard could it be for Beatty to license the film to Criterion or make an elaborate Special Edition of one of the most hyped movies of the 90's. That could spark some interest in the character and revive him in some TV show or movie.

[Antoine Doinel]

Beatty owns the rights to the character, not to the film (I believe Disney still holds the rights to that). Given the rocky production history, I can imagine Disney wants nothing to do anymore with Beatty which may be why they haven't gotten around to doing justice to the film on DVD. If/when the rights eventually return back to Tribune, I would imagine they would be very eager to work with Disney in creating a deluxe DVD of the film.

[GoldenPilgrim]

Man I need to see this again!
Last time I saw this was in theatres, when I turned 3

I still remember being terrified by it and completely confused as to when it was made (wasn't present day so it COULDN'T be a new film) --I loved it!

Also, as a weird side story: if I remember correctly, Kathy Ireland was babysitting me, my siblings, and our friends at the time and we saw the movie with her.

[tavernier]

Are you some SI photographer's kid?

[GoldenPilgrim]

No. But my Dad and I saw a sports illustrated the other day when we painted a gas station bathroom in lompoc!

No, this was a connection through church of all places. Which is always the premiere place to meet supermodels.

[royalton]

I worshipped and was obsessed with this film as a child. In a Dick Tracy tizzy, I ran out and devoured the digests of the old strips that they had re-packaged in prep for the film; I wish I still had that big book today. The production design and lighting in particular were intoxicating to a kid. Today, too many similar films seem afraid to build those kinds of whole "other" worlds, or they prefer to CGI them up. I haven't seen Tracy in years, but as a kid I wore out my old cassette tape of Madonna's soundtrack album. My mother should've known I'd grow up queer as a three dollar bill.

I'd love to see it restored on DVD, if for no other reason than I haven't seen it since maybe 1991. I prefer to believe I'd still love it, warts and all.

[Antoine Doinel]

Tribune is back in court asking that the television the movie rights are handed back to them as Warren Beatty, apparently reneged on a contractual deal to produce a television special following the film.

[Cosmic Bus]

I watched this recently for the first time and, despite not being much of a comic fan, thought it was fantastic, especially the oft-mentioned lighting and design, along with the exaggerated costumes and make-up. It now sits aside Ang Lee's Hulk and Batman Returns as comic adaptations I've found to be exceptionally well-done.

Count me in as another who'd like to see a second try with the Shadow. They had the visual aspect down nicely, but everything else was a mess.