Jacques Rivette

[justeleblanc]

Does anyone know who owns the rights to Out 1/Out 1: Spectre?

For the screening in Los Angeles that I organized with LAFCA and the UCLA Film & TV Archives, we obtained the print from Sunshine Films in France, 16mm only, no subtitles. The DVD with electronic subtitles came from England, I believe BFI, but I'm now blanking on that source.

Do you mean Sunchild films?

[ptmd]

It's weird though, it seems to be like Noli Me Tangere isn't playing anywhere anymore, like there are no more screenings anytime soon. Is that true?

The one extant print of the film traveled from France for a series of retrospectives in the UK and North America but since those have all ended, I would assume it is now back in Europe. It's extremely unlikely to play again in the next few years, so if you really want to see it, you might want to seek out the French PAL VHS set that was released 8 years ago. It may be possible to obtain a copy via interlibrary loan.

[Adam]

It's weird though, it seems to be like Noli Me Tangere isn't playing anywhere anymore, like there are no more screenings anytime soon. Is that true?

The one extant print of the film traveled from France for a series of retrospectives in the UK and North America but since those have all ended, I would assume it is now back in Europe. It's extremely unlikely to play again in the next few years, so if you really want to see it, you might want to seek out the French PAL VHS set that was released 8 years ago. It may be possible to obtain a copy via interlibrary loan.

This is correct. It's Sunshine Films. Also, "Noli Me Tangere" is a misnomer, or a convenience for programmers, but it's not actually the title. There are just OUT 1 (the long 1) and OUT 1: Spectre (the abridged one).

[PimpPanda]

Thanks for the help! Someone on another site gave an idea like this and I wonder if it would be possible to get a copy of the subtitles from BFI and then put them on the file that is online? Or is that illegal for some reason?

[MichaelB]

Thanks for the help! Someone on another site gave an idea like this and I wonder if it would be possible to get a copy of the subtitles from BFI and then put them on the file that is online? Or is that illegal for some reason?

Well, the subtitle translation is the copyright of whoever translated it - unless he or she signed over the rights to whoever commissioned it (quite likely in these situations).

Either way, though, you'll need someone's permission if you're to stay completely above board.

[justeleblanc]

Copyrights haven't stopped most internet bootleggers.

As for Spectre, I do believe this will get a release from Kino some time in the next few years.

[MichaelB]

Copyrights haven't stopped most internet bootleggers.

Indeed not, but the question specifically asked whether it was illegal. And the answer is clearly "yes", since even subtitles count as intellectual property.

Actually, I shouldn't have written that dismissive "even", as they can involve a huge amount of effort - the late Tom Milne said that while he could knock off a routine French thriller in a few hours, his Bresson subtitles could take days as it was so crucial that he got the right tone.

[Adam]

Someone on another site gave an idea like this and I wonder if it would be possible to get a copy of the subtitles from BFI and then put them on the file that is online? Or is that illegal for some reason?

Well, the subtitle translation is the copyright of whoever translated it - unless he or she signed over the rights to whoever commissioned it (quite likely in these situations).

Either way, though, you'll need someone's permission if you're to stay completely above board.

That's true. And they did charge us 250 pounds (I think that was the figure) to use them. Maybe it was 250 dollars.

[PimpPanda]

If only there was more interest in releasing it on dvd...Honestly, I wouldn't care if it was restored or anything just the fact that I'd get to see it would be enough for me.

[Larry Lipton]

Hi, new to the forum and Rivette. Would it be safe to assume that his earliest films (Aux quatre coins, Le Quadrille and Le Divertissement) are lost?

Also, what's up with the two elusive Essai sur l'agression and Naissance et mont de Prométhée that only IMDB seems to list? Are they for real?

[Tommaso]

Hi, new to the forum and Rivette. Would it be safe to assume that his earliest films (Aux quatre coins, Le Quadrille and Le Divertissement) are lost?

Yes, as far as I know, these are all lost.
As to the other two titles you mention, they indeed seem to be listed nowhere else. If I remember correctly, one of the theatre groups in OUT1 are doing a staging of Aesschylos' "Prometheus", so perhaps these are just individual parts of the long film/TV series? Anyone knows more?

[David Ehrenstein]

Michel Londsdale's group is indeed attempting to stage "Prometheus Bound" in Out 1. Their efforts turn into a series of improvisations on the themes of that play. Rivette could well have contemplated releasing that section of Out 1 as a separate film. Do no forget, Out 1 was rejected by French telvision (why remains a mystery) and Out 1: Spectre was an attempt to get some of it before the public in some form. For years this was all anyone knew of Out 1. But now having seen the complete absolute masterpiece, I can only regard Out 1: Spectre as a work of secondary import, of interest primarily to Rivette scholars.

[Larry Lipton]

I see. That makes sense. That only leaves L'Amour fou and Paris s'en va to track down, which at least have the decisive advantage of existing.

[Michael Kerpan]

I see. That makes sense. That only leaves L'Amour fou and Paris s'en va to track down, which at least have the decisive advantage of existing.

Paris s'en va is sort of a companion piece to Pont du Nord. A DVD set with both of these would be a treat. (I have the French video of PdN (which is probably my favorite Rivette film).

[Barmy]

The DVD cover of "Love/Ground" is perhaps the worst ever. A blurry photo and the arresting NYTimes quote "Controversial" (mmmmkay) reproduced both front and back. Pathetic.

Regarding Out 1, I don't understand why Rivette himself doesn't just cause it to happen. It's part of his legacy. I feel the same way about living legends (in my mind) like Jancso and (until recently) Robbe-Grillet. Hey you're old, but are you really too busy to get your oeuvre out on DVD?

[David Ehrenstein]

Well that requires money, and I don't imagine Rivette is flush.

The entire Out 1 experience was quite agonizing for him. And he's not getting any younger you know.

[Tommaso]

And he's not getting any younger you know.

To be precise, he just turned 80 on March 1. So a belated Bon Anniversaire!

[MichaelB]

Well that requires money, and I don't imagine Rivette is flush.

And it also requires controlling the rights, which rules most filmmakers out of contention (I don't know about Rivette in this specific instance).

[justeleblanc]

Well that requires money, and I don't imagine Rivette is flush.

And it also requires controlling the rights, which rules most filmmakers out of contention (I don't know about Rivette in this specific instance).

Barbet may not have the rights either, but he might be someone in the position to fund a restoration for home video.

Sunshine Films owns it, by the way.

[Barmy]

So Rivette calls up Sunshine and says "Hey assholes, release my masterpiece on DVD or I will go to Cahiers and trash talk you mofos into OBLIVION". And they're gonna say no?

[David Ehrenstein]

Actually the company is Sunchild. Stephane Talgadjieff is the producer and he hasn't been active for years.

Again it's all a question of money. If someone is willing to sink cash into a video release of the complete Out 1 I have no doubt it would be done.

[Barmy]

Every year the French government subsidizes dozens of boring French films that no one sees. Why can't they subsidize Rivette?

[justeleblanc]

Every year the French government subsidizes dozens of boring French films that no one sees. Why can't they subsidize Rivette?

I'm kinda with O'Reilly on this one. Until they subsidize Rivette, they are freedom fries.

[Stefan]

Regarding the recent Bluebell release of "La bande des quatre" - according to amazon (co.uk, com, de) that DVD's running time differs slightly from the original version (is some minutes shorter, of all things). Does anyone know if that's error on the part of amazon, or has the film actually been newly edited?

By the way, I don't know if it has already been mentioned around here, but one month ago a quite splendid Rivette DVD box was released in Germany, containing "Céline et Julie vont en bateau", "Duelle", "Va savoir" and, for the first time ever on DVD, "Merry-go-round". The extras feature three interviews with Rivette.

[domino harvey]

it's due to the PAL speed-up of 4%. Nothing's been cut