Jacques Rivette

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mirabeau
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:18 pm

#476 Post by mirabeau »

David Ehrenstein wrote:
mirabeau wrote:In Out 1, Colin is given three messages (I hope that's right!).
Who gives him the first (and most important) message, Mr. Know-It-All?
David, I know the answer, of course, but I sort of dislike the idea of jumping through hoops to prove something to you. Besides, it's actually not even a very difficult question.

However, maybe you can tell us why the first message is the "most important" one?
David Ehrenstein
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:30 am

#477 Post by David Ehrenstein »

And I LOVE to see posters jump through hoops!

No, it's not a "difficult" question. But the fact that it's her is of particular importance to the plot (or rather plots) of the film.

To return to "Les 13," it's pretty clear that Rivette was using the idea as a springboard for talking about "secret societies" in many different contexts. Paris Nous Appartient deals with such a world-within-a-world as do Le Pont du Nord, La Bande des Quatres, Merry go Round, Duelle and Noroit.

In the case of Out One, Rivette was doubtless think of the secret society Georges Bataille once porposed. At the same time the film eveokes all manner of utopian notions come to nought in the wake of May '68. It's more timely than ever in this regard.
mirabeau
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:18 pm

#478 Post by mirabeau »

David Ehrenstein wrote:No, it's not a "difficult" question. But the fact that it's her is of particular importance to the plot (or rather plots) of the film.
I don't quite see why it's of particular importance that it's Marie and not, for example, Elaine or Sarah or Thomas, except that it's Marie in the last shot of the film, standing beneath the statue of Minerva, which brings a sort of symmetry to the film. But that still doesn't answer the question of why the first message is the most important. What I mean is that the first message finds its compliment in the second and third messages. The first doesn't mean much without the other two (not that any one of the messages actually "means" anything concrete). My point is that it's arbitrary to insist on the importance of any one message above the others.
David Ehrenstein
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:30 am

#479 Post by David Ehrenstein »

It's the most important because it instigates the action. Colin may be crazy but the fact that someone from "les 13" and its affiliates has contacted him gives him leave to investigate on a rational basis. There was -- and perhaps still is -- a 13. What were they up to in the past? What are they up to now? What's realy going on inside "L'angle du hasard"? Are the "plans for a new city" Berto finds at Jacques Doniol-Valcroze's place of real importance or just an idea he (and unnamed others) had?

Does anybody care?
Stefan
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:33 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

#480 Post by Stefan »

Thank you for the quotation, mirabeau. I wasn't aware of "les devorants" and "les compagnons" being already mentioned in the foreword (and should have looked it up before calling into question Rivette's statement).

Speaking of Hermine Karagheuze - it might be more than accidental that in the three films she made with Rivette (Out 1 - Noli me tangere, Duelle, Merry-go-round) she's seen in the final shot. (Ok, she also shows up in Secret Défense, but only as a sidekick.)

I agree with David Ehrenstein's remark that the handing over of the first message is more important - or at least more intriguing - than the others, as there's nowhere any suggestion that Hermine Karagheuze/Marie is part of the "13" or only knows about them. Why does she waylay Colin to give him that paper? After having watched the film in a cinema some weeks ago I spoke to a guy who was truly bewildered by that question. It surely pulls another string through the film's various plots. That Marie "has" the last shot in the film might point (intuitively) to her role as an imediary between the different stories.

The location of that shot - Place Dorée, many years later:

Image
Last edited by Stefan on Sun May 11, 2008 6:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
mirabeau
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:18 pm

#481 Post by mirabeau »

David Ehrenstein wrote:It's the most important because it instigates the action. Colin may be crazy but the fact that someone from "les 13" and its affiliates has contacted him gives him leave to investigate on a rational basis.
Yes, yes, yes, of course it's important in that most elementary way, just as the first episode is the "most important" in the sense that it sets up the following seven.

Là, là. This isn't a "flame war" yet, is it?
David Ehrenstein
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:30 am

#482 Post by David Ehrenstein »

Not yet.

That it's a statue of a goddess looks forward to Karaheuz's role in Duelle where she's an unwitting intermediary between Moon Goddesss Leni (Juliet Berto) and Sun Goddess Viva (Bulle Ogier).

Karagheuz also plays Rivette's wife in Eduardo de Gregori's La Memoire Courte and has worked extensively for Patrice Chereau. When I was in France in 1983 I saw her in Chereau's production of Genet's The Screens.
mirabeau
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:18 pm

#483 Post by mirabeau »

Thanks for that photo, Stefan! I took a bunch of shots of the statue when I was in Paris a few years ago, but then lost them when my computer had a severe melt-down. :( No doubt, a lesson to regularly back-up one's hard-drive and/or to make regular sacrifices to the gods/goddesses (I suppose Mercury would've been the right one in this case).
David Ehrenstein
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:30 am

#484 Post by David Ehrenstein »

These statues have a particular fascination for Rivette. They're regarded in Duelle and Le Pont du Nord as something akin to fetish objects.
Stefan
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:33 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

#485 Post by Stefan »

Haha! Yes, mercury should be the one. Hermes can't be too far away.

The photo I simply found via google, though. When I was in Paris in the early 90's I took some photos of that statue, too (but don't have them on the computer), as well as a bunch of the Place d'Italie - the inhospitable spot which shows up regularly during the last episode of "Out". I was completely mesmerized by these shots and tried to get the same "camera position" - without success. The whole place seemed restructured. In fact, only the roundabout circulation plus that one lonely street sign (Hopital/Hospice de Bicetre) I was able to recognize.

It's nice to learn that I'm not the only one who did things like that ...

To which statues in "Duelle" do you point out, David? Actually, I cannot think of any.
David Ehrenstein
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:30 am

#486 Post by David Ehrenstein »

Here are several shots of the feet of certain statues in the film. Can't recall which they are offhand.
Stefan
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:33 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

#487 Post by Stefan »

The feet of certain statues? ("L'age d'or" comes to mind). I watched the film only two weeks ago but ... can't remember any. Sorry.
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justeleblanc
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:05 pm
Location: Connecticut

#488 Post by justeleblanc »

David Ehrenstein wrote:These statues have a particular fascination for Rivette. They're regarded in Duelle and Le Pont du Nord as something akin to fetish objects.
Who regards them this way?
David Ehrenstein
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:30 am

#489 Post by David Ehrenstein »

The camera does in Duelle.

Pascale Ogier does in Le Pont du Nord.
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justeleblanc
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#490 Post by justeleblanc »

David Ehrenstein wrote:The camera does in Duelle.
In other words, you do.
David Ehrenstein
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:30 am

#491 Post by David Ehrenstein »

I am NOT a camera.
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domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:42 pm

#492 Post by domino harvey »

David Ehrenstein wrote:I am NOT a camera.
Well I'm getting mixed signals here, because

Image
David Ehrenstein
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:30 am

#493 Post by David Ehrenstein »

SNERK!
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JCA
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#494 Post by JCA »

L'Amour Fou is one of my top 10 most wanted films right now. :-({|=
Larry Lipton
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:44 pm

#495 Post by Larry Lipton »

If I may, there is an interesting bit about Le Quadrille in Richard Brody's new book about Godard. Some of it is already up at Order of the Exile, some other infos - such as the names of the actors - were new to me. Rivette's quotes seem to be taken from the author's own interviews with him. Pretty cool stuff for people who are as interested in Rivette trivia as I am. :D

"In the summer of 1950, Truffaut made plans to shoot a 16mm film, but the project was unrealized. At the time, however, Rivette, tried his hand at another 16mm project with a title reminiscent of that of his earlier Aux Quatre Coins. "Godard saw to the production of my film, Quadrille," Rivette later recalled. "He was also the producer: he put up the money for the 16mm black and white reversible film." Explaining Godard's ability to do so, Rivette added: "Nobody had any money; he had a little bit more." Though Godard got a little money from his family, he admitted that the money that went into Rivette's film came from stealing and selling books from his grandfather Monod's "Valérianum", his collection of first, private, and rare editions by Paul Valéry. The film featured four actors: two women, Liliane Litvin and Anne-Marie Cazalis; one of the two men was Godard. According to Rivette, "It ran forty minutes and absolutely nothing happens. It's just four people sitting around a table, looking at each other." Suzanne Schiffman recalled, "At a given moment a guy slapped a girl and he walked out." The film was shown at the CCQL, where, according to Rivette, "After ten minutes, people started to leave, and at the end, the only ones who stayed were Jean-Luc and a girl."
In a "16mm Chronicle," published in the November 1950 issue of La Gazette du cinéma - the last before the publication folded due to poor sales - Godard reproached Henri Langlois of the Cinémathèque for failing to program Rivette's film. He praised the film as "an homage to the Lubitsch of Lady Windermere's Fan," but did not mention his own participation in the film, behind and before the camera, or his friendship with its director.
The avant-gardism of Rivette's work arose from the Latin Quarter milieu that he frequented along with Godard. Asked whether the film was a surrealist provocation, Rivette later said, "No, Lettrist." As he explained, "The Lettrists were the successors to the surrealists and the precursors of the Situationists," and he added that the leader of the Lettrists, Isidore Isou, told him that the film was "ingenious." p. 19/20

Oh and ... *gasp*! IMDb announces an Untitled Jacques Rivette Project for 2009.
Stefan
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:33 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

#496 Post by Stefan »

Splendid news! Thanks for pointing out to this, Larry Lipton. Imdb also notes that Sergio Castellitto, the jealous Italian in "Va Savoir", will play the leading role, together with Jane Birkin. Hopefully we'll learn more about this film soon. Could it be a second try at "L'année prochaine à Paris"?
And thank you for the quotation from Richard Brody's book, too.

This is the passage he refers to:

"(...) Un film tel que 'La quadrille' est un hommage au Lubitsch de 'L'Eventail de Lady Windermere', comme 'Picnic' [by Curtis Harrington] est un hommage à la 'Partie de cartes' ou au 'Goûter de bébé'. Ces deux films sont loin d'être parfaits, l'aristocratie de l'un et le naturel de l'autre sont trop et trop peu calculés. Mais il est bon qu'ils provoquent que le 16 mm. n'a rien à gagner des libertés esthétiques que n'ont pas les professionels et qu'en dehors de questions matérielles (dont chaque format tire ses advantages comme ses difficultés) il n'y a aucune différence entre le 35 mm. et le 16 mm. Il s'agit seulement de faire du bon cinéma."

By the way, apart from not mentioning his own participation in "La quadrille", M. Hans Lucas doesn't name the director, either.

OK, chances for "L'année prochaine à Paris" aren't actually sustained by the information that the new film "will be partly set in Italy" ...
Ted Todorov
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:00 pm

#497 Post by Ted Todorov »

What happened to the long promised New Yorker Celine and Julie Go Boating DVD? Could the endless delay be because Criterion bought the rights, or has New Yorker gone out of business?
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Michael Kerpan
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#498 Post by Michael Kerpan »

Ted Todorov wrote:What happened to the long promised New Yorker Celine and Julie Go Boating DVD? Could the endless delay be because Criterion bought the rights, or has New Yorker gone out of business?
New Yorker is still working on this. I think they are obsessed about getting this release right.
dannyf
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:49 am

#499 Post by dannyf »

JCA wrote:L'Amour Fou is one of my top 10 most wanted films right now.
Now that the Dziga Vertov DVD is out, L'Amour Fou is my absolute number one most wanted film.

I even checked out if the Australian national film archive had a 16mm copy of it, but no luck there.
Macintosh
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:38 pm
Location: New York City

#500 Post by Macintosh »

Anyone in the greater New York/Brooklyn area should be aware that Celine and Julie Go Boating is coming to BAM cinematek.
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