Technical Issues and Questions

[domino harvey]

My question: should I suspect the BR player or does the upconvert really depend on the quality of the source? Or is this a case of finally having a decent enough TV to really notice how varying DVD transfers can be?

Well, as someone who owns the upconverting Oppo and has actually seen all four of your titles on my HDTV, I agree with your findings. Which is to say, blame the DVDs

[Antoine Doinel]

Great, thanks so much for the feedback DH. I figured as much, but the nerdish/worrying part of me needed confirmation. And Poncho, you're probably right. I'm watching the film now and overall it looks quite good.

[fdm]

Some blu-ray players do a better job at upconverting DVDs than others. Just like DVD players. [Since you didn't mention which player... or TV...]

Sometimes a few adjustments to the TV can really get the DVDs (and most everything else) looking a lot better. TVs out of the box can, and usually do, have settings that tend to make them look grainy, or even somewhat freak-ish.. aka "torch mode". Turning off a lot of the "picture enhancers" and those types of things that are on by default can make a large difference, as can switching to custom and/or film mode (from vivid, or sport or whatever). And dialing things in with an adjustment DVD (e.g., Digital Video Essentials) is always a good idea.

[Antoine Doinel]

Thanks for the tip fdm. I did calibrate my TV (Samsung Series 5 40") to some settings for the model of my TV that were approved over on some tech head forums by multiple users and I'm overall pretty satisfied. I watched the SD-DVD of 21 tonight (awful movie) on my Samsung BD-P1500 and it looked absolutely stunning. Just a few notches below what I would imagine the BD to look like. As I mentioned, The Royal Tenenbaums actually looked pretty damn good if a bit soft in places. It actually gave me a whole new appreciation for what CC does (especially compared to Warner's hatchet job on Ocean's 13). But other discs varied in quality as mentioned above.

If anything, I'll probably take a gander at some some of the BR player settings in the next few days, and try a few different things, but it does seem to be doing the job excellently for BR discs and decently transferred standard DVDs. I'll also connect my standalone DVD player and run it through the LCD and see if that makes any difference for the less than stellar DVDs.

If there is one lesson in all of this, is that going hi-def really brings to the fore the best and worst of your DVD collection, at times, to a particularly maddening degree.

[swo17]

I watched the SD-DVD of 21 tonight (awful movie) on my Samsung BD-P1500 and it looked absolutely stunning.

I love how HD allows phrases like "absolutely stunning" and "the movie 21" to finally appear in the same sentence. Now if only the technology existed to make movies less crap.

I found this deal on a Pioneer PDP-5010FD today. It's only $1,750 (and free shipping) for a new one. This seems like a ridiculously good deal. My only potential concerns are:

1. Does anyone have any experience with this particular retailer?

2. Apparently the 5020 has the newer HDMI 1.3a inputs. How big of a deal is this?

3. I would also assume that the 5020 generally has better contrast and perhaps other specs, but the cheapest I've been seeing these is still at least $600 more than this deal on the 5010.

Any insight that any of you could provide would be most appreciated.

EDIT: I see this same site also has a 5020 for just $1,925.

[fdm]

Found a review of the 5010 at Sound and Vision

Kind of hard to go wrong with a Kuro...

And this one for the 5020; it seems to be pretty good wrt comparing it with the 5010

If this were a receiver, the HDM 1.3a inputs would be important (mostly for the audio), but HDMI 1.1 is fine for hi-def video.

[swo17]

Hmmm...well, I don't know about this retailer anymore. For one thing, they don't accept credit cards (which seems shady to me). They only accept Western Union money transfer, which would end up costing $120 more. They also have this seal of approval on their site from a place called Global Secure Trust, which is supposed to make you feel comfortable with buying from them, but it doesn't link anywhere, and I can't find anything called Global Secure Trust anywhere else on the web. I think this deal may have just been too good to be true.

[domino harvey]

Insert big Drudge Siren here

[David M.]

Ok, so I got my new LCD TV today and BluRay player that supposedly upconverts to 1080p however I'm noticing some wildly divergent SD-DVD results on the player.

Royal Tenenbaums (Criterion) - image looks slightly soft, but there is good detail, texture
Ocean's Thirteen - grainy as hell, looks awful (this disc actually never looked that great on my standard DVD player either)
Birth - looks very good
Double Indemnity - looks great

So far, when playing BR everything looks amazing. Oh yeah, screen size settings are correct so this isn't an issue of stretched images etc.

My question: should I suspect the BR player or does the upconvert really depend on the quality of the source? Or is this a case of finally having a decent enough TV to really notice how varying DVD transfers can be?

If the film looks grainy, it'll probably mean:

1. It's a grainy film.
2. You have the Sharpness control set too high which is accentuating the grain texture and making it part of the foreground rather than an unobtrusive texture.

[Antoine Doinel]

Ok, so I got my new LCD TV today and BluRay player that supposedly upconverts to 1080p however I'm noticing some wildly divergent SD-DVD results on the player.

Royal Tenenbaums (Criterion) - image looks slightly soft, but there is good detail, texture
Ocean's Thirteen - grainy as hell, looks awful (this disc actually never looked that great on my standard DVD player either)
Birth - looks very good
Double Indemnity - looks great

So far, when playing BR everything looks amazing. Oh yeah, screen size settings are correct so this isn't an issue of stretched images etc.

My question: should I suspect the BR player or does the upconvert really depend on the quality of the source? Or is this a case of finally having a decent enough TV to really notice how varying DVD transfers can be?

If the film looks grainy, it'll probably mean:

1. It's a grainy film.
2. You have the Sharpness control set too high which is accentuating the grain texture and making it part of the foreground rather than an unobtrusive texture.

Ocean's 13 is not a "grainy film", and a quick check around the internet confirmed that many people found Warner's transfer of the film to be lacking. It's actually only that disc that I've had any major issues -- every other disc I've played this weekend (and they've all been SD-DVD) has been fine.

And yes, I've adjusted sharpness etc etc.

[Oedipax]

I've had my Samsung LN40A650 for about a week and a half now, and overall my impressions of the TV are very strong. Something does keep nagging me, however, and I hope someone here can shed some light on it. Even with the 'motion-smoothing' "Auto Motion Plus" feature turned off, I am getting some weird motion artifacts from time to time. It seems to impact different movies to varying degrees, but it is unfortunately somewhat observable in just about everything if I really look for it (and given my obsessive nature over this stuff, more often than not, I notice it).

I suppose the best way to describe it is that motion briefly seems to speed up or appear smoother than natural, given the 24fps origins of the films in question. It can be especially noticeable during pans, where there is a real lack of judder that one usually sees when panning a camera at 24fps. Most prefer this smoothness, but it is death to me. It takes me out of the movie every single time as I ask myself, shouldn't that be a little less smooth? Do I really have all the 120hz enhancements turned off? And I open up the menu, and of course, I do have them disabled.

I'm wondering if what I'm observing is something inherent in LCD displays. There's a reason people consider plasma superior, I suppose. But certain films still look like films, whereas others go in and out of filmicness, sometimes veering more towards video. It drives me nuts! I'm becoming more distressed by it because it seems no one else who has this set sees the same thing, or worse, they love all the motion-smoothing stuff and leave it on.

Can anyone help me out here? I feel like I'm imagining something that isn't there, almost. Whatever it is that I'm seeing, I can't seem to "un-see" it, especially after confirming on my computer how a certain movie should look w.r.t. movement (panning etc) while the same film played on the Samsung.

[Ahti]

What you're describing sounds very like the AMP/120hz effect, see here, for example.

Do the per input settings also apply to AMP? In case, make sure you're adjusting for the right one. You could also try to connect the player to one of the other inputs.

[swo17]

For those of you planning your lives around the impending release of the Oppo Blu-ray player, and wondering where the hell it is already, I got this response from them today:

We anticipate releasing the OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray player between December 2008 and February 2009, but we will not release the player until we are completely satisfied with its hardware and software integration.

We would recommend signing up for the BDP-83 Blu-ray e-mail notification list (http://oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). This list will be used to contact you once we have more information available about the OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray player.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.

[TheDoman]

I have asked a few friends about this, and no one has had an idea of what the cause is.

My TV has some different shades it seems. At the top and bottom of the screen there are bands that are always in the same place, and are darker than the centre of the screen. This is really evident when you view blue screens on my satellite box, or on scenes which have the same colour shading for huge portions of the screen. So if there is a really tight closeup, you may notice it.

Basically it is like a letter box effect



So for example when I'm viewing an anamorphic piece, I notice darker shades at the bottom and top (where the black bars would be on a letterbox picture). On a blue screen, it means there is dark blue, and then a light/whiter shade.


The centre of the screen is a different shade compared to the two areas which would be black on a letterbox picture. Where the two different shades meet, you almost seem to observe ‘faded lines’ which initially I thought was the best way to describe it, until I noticed the different shades. I have noticed this problem with both my DVD player, and also my Sky digital box. I have also noticed it on an s-video connection from my PC.

I thought it was some kind of electrical interference, but I have tried unplugging the appliances that are connected to the same socket as the TV.

It is a very hard problem to describe, and because I can’t take photos to show the situation, I’m not sure if you will get my problem lol.

I have the following TV: Panasonic TX-32PS12 (crt)

It’s really bugging me, and I don’t want to call out anyone.

Thanks


Someone pointed me along to this, which I'm guessing could be my problem

http://www.plasmasaver.com/burnin.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[subliminac]

Someone pointed me along to this, which I'm guessing could be my problem

http://www.plasmasaver.com/burnin.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That was my first reaction while reading through your post. If the discoloration aligns perfectly with the letterbox bars that I think its pretty obvious. Unfortunately I don't believe there's any way to fix it, especially on a CRT.

[TheDoman]

Someone pointed me along to this, which I'm guessing could be my problem

http://www.plasmasaver.com/burnin.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That was my first reaction while reading through your post. If the discoloration aligns perfectly with the letterbox bars that I think its pretty obvious. Unfortunately I don't believe there's any way to fix it, especially on a CRT.

Well I think there are some similarities and it may well be the problem, but I have actually noticed the problem on letterboxed films too. And it is not borderline between the bars and viewabale image, the shading is significantly higher up, and toward the middle of the picture (e.g. its not just that the films I have seen it with have been ultra widescreen). There are some tactics for sorting out burn in effect, but I'm not sure how well they would work to be honest.

[swo17]

Got this email today, for any one interested:

OPPO BDP-83 Blu-Ray Disc Player Update

Thank you for signing up to receive information about our upcoming OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray Disc Player. We appreciate your interest, and would like to update you on the current development status of this exciting new product.

One of the major design goals for the BDP-83 is to deliver first-class video quality for both Blu-ray and DVD. We based and expanded upon our top-of-the-line DV-983H up-converting DVD player and fully utilize the unparalleled performance of the VRS by Anchor Bay video processing solution. You can expect all the high-end video features including Source Direct for DVD and Blu-ray, high definition HDMI scaling, Edge and Detail Enhancement options, and 1080p24Hz output for both Blu-ray and DVD.

We did not stop at just video performance. We further refined the audio stage, including the addition of discrete stereo outputs and increasing the power and efficiency of the power supply. For SACD playback, the BDP-83 supports direct DSD over HDMI and DSD-to-analog without any PCM conversion, a very unique feature.

With the BDP-83, we intend to release a full-featured universal Blu-ray Disc player that supports BD Profile 2.0 (BD-Live), DVD, SACD, DVD-Audio, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD Master Audio. As of this writing, the BDP-83 supports BD Profile 1.1 (BONUSVIEW), DVD-Video, SACD, and bitstreaming of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. Progress is being made on a daily basis as our engineers work diligently around the clock to further enable DVD-Audio, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio onboard decoding, and BD Profile 2.0.

The BDP-83 is currently undergoing an extensive and thorough Beta Test Program. We greatly appreciate all the feedback from our beta testers, as without their hard work and extraordinary attention to detail, the BDP-83 would not be the high quality product that our customers have come to expect from us.

As many of our customers eagerly anticipate the release of the BDP83, we are contemplating a "BDP-83 Early Adoption Program" in late December or early January. This program will make available a limited number of units so you can purchase and experience the current implementation of the BDP-83's feature set, with the ability to download firmware as new features become available. The estimated price for the BDP-83 is around $499 to $599.

OPPO Digital is a consumer-oriented company that listens carefully to customer opinions and values their feedback. If it were not for our customers' feedback and support, OPPO would not be where we are today. At OPPO we strive to provide our customers with quality products reinforced by exceptional customer service.

Please email to [email protected] if you have any questions and comments, or simply reply to this email.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.

[StevenJ0001]

Sounds like it's going to be a great player, but word at AVS Forum is that it will be region-locked for both DVD (1) and Blu-Ray (A), possibly with no workaround.

That means in my ideal setup (i.e. using the Oppo BDP-83 as the main player) I would need to keep my current region-free DVD player, plus buy the BDP-83, plus buy a lesser region-free Blu-Ray player for the odd non region A Blu-Ray I may wish to play. #-o

EDIT: I guess a region-free Blu-Ray player could serve as my region-free DVD player also, but that would still mean buying two new players.

[swo17]

Sounds like it's going to be a great player, but word at AVS Forum is that it will be region-locked for both DVD (1) and Blu-Ray (A), possibly with no workaround.

What??? That defeats the whole purpose. Someone please disprove this, now.

[domino harvey]

Does Oppo really not understand why people buy their DVD players?

[Morbii]

Does Oppo really not understand why people buy their DVD players?

It's obviously a selling point, but not even close to the only one.

[swo17]

Browsing the AVS Forum, it looks like the issue is not that Oppo doesn't see the need to make their player region-free, but rather that, in order to obtain a license to sell their Blu-ray player, they have to affirm that it is not easily modified into region-free. Also, if it proves to be otherwise, they could potentially lose their license. It seems like we will just have to wait and see when it comes out if anyone is able to hack the player, if there really end up being any ramifications from this, or if the player will at the very least be able to be modified to play all regions of SD DVDs.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I kind of feel right now like a little kid who just found out there was no Santa Claus.

[cinemartin]

So when they say "With the BDP-83, we intend to release a full-featured universal Blu-ray Disc player", they don't mean universal in the sense that it plays every Blu-ray disc in the universe?

[Elephant]

Browsing the AVS Forum, it looks like the issue is not that Oppo doesn't see the need to make their player region-free, but rather that, in order to obtain a license to sell their Blu-ray player, they have to affirm that it is not easily modified into region-free.

I upgraded to HD-DVD and now have that player (which I love) plus a pile of HD-DVDs. I'm not going to buy into another format until there are players which are exactly what I want: cheap(er), reliable, and region-free. This is really disappointing news about the Oppo, which I was really looking forward to . . . I know they make great players, but $499-599 for a region-locked player is out of my budget for the forseeable future, especially if someone came along six months later with a code-free machine at the same or a cheaper price . . . I'd really be kicking myself.*

*Like I did when HD-DVD tanked four months after I got the player. Sigh.

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

I have a question about the Sony DVP-NS57P dvd player. I researched it online and discovered that it’s a region free player. However, some Second Sight Derek Jarman DVDs I bought – which are region 0 by the way – won’t play on it. Does anyone know how I can reprogram this dvd player to actually be region free?