Rainer Werner Fassbinder

[Adam]

Just saw 'the Third Generation" at LACMA last night. What a hoot of a film - easy targets but still amusing as farce. New Yorker Films print. I wish the title cards quoting graffiti were translated, and not just the source information at the bottom of those screens. I also wish some of the incessant radio & TV sound were translated, to see what specific references were in play, as opposed to just the overall sense of media saturation, and that even our revolutionaries are limited to mass media for their sources of information, and so forth. Not that that isn't significant enough.

[j99]

What about Despair? Has it ever been released on DVD? I've got a rather old and worn second hand VHS, and would dearly like to replace it with a new remastered version.

[HelenLawson]

There's only boots of most of them out there and even many of those don't have Eng. subs.

Speaking of which, Nora Helmer has just been posted on YouTube - with English subs!

[HistoryProf]

This may be the best thread on this entire forum. I've read through it over the last couple of days and am increasingly sad that I had to sell my Ali: Fear Eats the Soul and BRD Trilogy discs (along with the majority of my dvd collection...the IRS can still kiss my ass) 4 or 5 years ago. I only had a chance to see Lola in the latter too, so it and Ali remain the only two Fassbinder's i've seen. I have to say, though, I have remained fascinated by his work and his life, and am jonesing hard to see Berlin Alexanderplatz. I'm thinking the next B&N sale might have to be dedicated to acquiring that (and reacquiring the others). Does anyone have an opinion on whether one should have a better foundation in Fassbinder before tackling BA?

A serious side interest of mine that I've been ruminating on more and more is 20th century Germany, and what it must be like for modern Germans to have to reconcile their horrific past and try to make sense of it all - knowing that there must be a tremendous level of collective denial in many. This is what intrigues me most about BA and Fassbinder in general - he wasn't just unafraid to confront that past, but actively tried to force others to do so as well. Add in the sexual politics of the era and his work is just one time bomb after another. I don't think there's ever been a more fearless director. It's sad he died so soon.

With the Wellsprings having all gone away, are we to expect more from Criterion in the near future? maybe even an eclipse set or something? All these years later, Ali remains one of the single most affecting film experiences in my life, i remember an uncommon amount of the film - numerous images and scenes haunt my imagination and I just sincerely LOVE that film.

[triodelover]

Does anyone have an opinion on whether one should have a better foundation in Fassbinder before tackling BA?

My only Fassbinder prior to BA was the Criterion releases. I found BA eminently accessible, so much so the it's one of my "desert island discs", if one can consider a 15-hour miniseries a "disc".

A serious side interest of mine that I've been ruminating on more and more is 20th century Germany, and what it must be like for modern Germans to have to reconcile their horrific past and try to make sense of it all - knowing that there must be a tremendous level of collective denial in many. This is what intrigues me most about BA and Fassbinder in general - he wasn't just unafraid to confront that past, but actively tried to force others to do so as well. Add in the sexual politics of the era and his work is just one time bomb after another. I don't think there's ever been a more fearless director. It's sad he died so soon.

I'm not sure that you can say BA confronts "their horrific past". It's set at the end of Weimar and the Nazis are only tangentially addressed in a couple of episodes (IIRC). It's not Veronika Voss. I think it does make it clear the reasons the average German did not resist, and in many cases embraced, National Socialism. Fassbinder said if you know the Twenties, it's fairly easy to recognize the signs. But given that, it's personal focus makes it seem remarkably apolitical for a Fassbinder work. IMO, at least.

[tajmahal]

'Does anyone have an opinion on whether one should have a better foundation in Fassbinder before tackling BA?'

Excellent post, historyprof. I experienced Fassbinder for the first time over the last year. I jumped in the deep end and purchased the two UK sets:

Rainer Werner Fassbinder Commemorative Collection Volume 1 - 1969-1972

The Rainer Werner Fassbinder Collection - 1973-1982

From all that I had read, I was convinced I wouldn't like Fassbinder's films, but the boxsets were cheap, and you just don't know until you try.

Fassbinder's films have been a revelation, to the extent that I can't think of cinema without Fassbinder. From the opening moments of Love is colder Than Death, I fell completely under his spell. Katzelmacher is his first great ensemble film. The Merchant of four Seasons is his first masterpiece. Not all of the films work, but what an impression he made. I have since bought all his available films. I stopped after the first set, as I wanted to watch some of the Sirk films that influenced Fassbinder, before diving into, what many consider, his most fertile period.

I have Berlin Alexanderplatz, but I plan to work my way through his films chronologically. It seems Whity and Pioneers in Ingolstadt may be out of print.

From reviews I've read, this is probably the best book on Fassbinder and his work.

http://www.amazon.com/Fassbinder-Life-W ... 519&sr=1-1

To sum up, I'm glad I watched his early film first, and look forward to diving into his Sirk-influenced 70's films.

To illustrate his loss to filmmaking, fassbinder would only be 64 today.

[HistoryProf]

Does anyone have an opinion on whether one should have a better foundation in Fassbinder before tackling BA?

My only Fassbinder prior to BA was the Criterion releases. I found BA eminently accessible, so much so the it's one of my "desert island discs", if one can consider a 15-hour miniseries a "disc".

A serious side interest of mine that I've been ruminating on more and more is 20th century Germany, and what it must be like for modern Germans to have to reconcile their horrific past and try to make sense of it all - knowing that there must be a tremendous level of collective denial in many. This is what intrigues me most about BA and Fassbinder in general - he wasn't just unafraid to confront that past, but actively tried to force others to do so as well. Add in the sexual politics of the era and his work is just one time bomb after another. I don't think there's ever been a more fearless director. It's sad he died so soon.

I'm not sure that you can say BA confronts "their horrific past". It's set at the end of Weimar and the Nazis are only tangentially addressed in a couple of episodes (IIRC). It's not Veronika Voss. I think it does make it clear the reasons the average German did not resist, and in many cases embraced, National Socialism. Fassbinder said if you know the Twenties, it's fairly easy to recognize the signs. But given that, it's personal focus makes it seem remarkably apolitical for a Fassbinder work. IMO, at least.

I realize BA explores the 1920s and the transition from Weimar excess into Nazi fascism....I just meant that it fascinates me as - from what i've read - as an honest look at the period that laid the foundation for the horrors of the Third Reich. It's easy to sit back and coolly understand that resentment of the Treaty of Versailles started it all and then crashed headlong into the despair of the Great Depression, giving a power mad dictator like Hitler his opening...but it's a much different thing to try and understand the average joe in those crucial years - and it seems to me that Fassbinder went farther than most in trying to uncover that peculiarly "German" mentality.

Recovering from World War II obviously shaped everyone's lives one way or another in Europe...and it even more obviously shaped cinema there - but while many people sought escapes by the 1970s, Fassbinder was going in the opposite direction. I am thus more and more intrigued by BA and how he chose to explore the fall of Weimar Berlin. This thread has been a great help in encouraging my interest.

As for books Taj, I think it was mentioned pages back, but i've had Thomas Elsaesser's Fassbinder's Germany: History, Identity, Subject on my wishlist at Amazon for years now. It seems the obvious choice for someone like me - i.e. interested in the historicity of his films and explorations of German identity as shaped by that past. It appears to go film by film, which is exactly what I would love to have...seems like an invaluable resource.

So many things to buy!

[triodelover]

I realize BA explores the 1920s and the transition from Weimar excess into Nazi fascism....I just meant that it fascinates me as - from what i've read - as an honest look at the period that laid the foundation for the horrors of the Third Reich. It's easy to sit back and coolly understand that resentment of the Treaty of Versailles started it all and then crashed headlong into the despair of the Great Depression, giving a power mad dictator like Hitler his opening...but it's a much different thing to try and understand the average joe in those crucial years - and it seems to me that Fassbinder went farther than most in trying to uncover that peculiarly "German" mentality.

It wasn't just resentment of Versailles. The back-breaking reparations demanded by Lloyd-George and Clemenceau (and supported by the myopic Wilson in exchange for lip service to his Fourteen Points and the League) made certain that Weimar would be a failed experiment. It took a wheelbarrow of marks to buy bread in the early '20s in Berlin. The stage was set for the man on a horse long before the Great Depression. The average German was fueled by more than hatred for the November criminals. Germany suffered the hunger and deprivation the rest of the world found in 1929 a full decade earlier.

I do agree that Fassbinder in BA gives insight into how the average guy - if Franz can be considered average - reacted to the events of the late Weimar Republic. I don't agree that it's a peculiarly German mentality. I find some rather uncomfortable parallels in the Tea Party movement and I think they arise from some very similar situations - the sense that things are out of their control, the rampant xenophobia, the hatred of government in its current incarnation while looking for a leader who validates their world view and feelings about themselves. If Fassbinder were still alive, I wonder if he wouldn't be making films about America?

[knives]

Are the Tango DVD releases all tidy? DVDBeaver seems to be down.

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

I watched Third Generation last night and it looked great.

[Lemmy Caution]

Enjoyed back to back nights with 2 Fassbinders I had never heard of -- Despair (1978) and I Only Wanted You To Love Me (a 1976 Tv drama). Of course Fassbinder was ridiculously productive, so it's easy to overlook some of his films. But Despair stars Dirk Bogarde, is based on a Nabokov novel adapted for the screen by Tom Stoppard. I'm unsure why this is not better known. WhileI Only Wanted You has a mere 237 votes on IMDb.

Really it's Bogarde's (and of course Fassbinders) show. A few Fassbinder regulars turn up, with Volker Spengler having a fair sized role as the "cousin" of Bogard's wife, with both characters being played rather broadly for laughs. The film is like an absurdist farce of Trading Places. It often seemed on the verge of becoming a Joe Orton style farce or one of those odd satiric Vonnegut adaptations -- which I'd guess is the Stoppard effect.

I like how the main character's name has been switched from the book to Hermann Hermann for the film, in a nice echo of Nabokov's Humbert Humbert. Though in the film it's really unclear if HH is really his name or just an error as someone gets confused if Hermann is his first or last name, and, with his identity starting to fragment (and double), he blithely accepts the repetitive name.
Set in Berlin in 1929 and 30, there are certain echoes of Berlin Alexanderplatz, along with some Sirkian Willy Wonkiness, plus late brief homages to van Gogh and likely even a sly joke making Bogarde into an on-the-lam Bogart.
I really think Fassbinder enjoyed working with Bogarde.
Oddly for the strong personalities behind the project the theme and story are a little uncertain in the film.

A very eye-catching cover, though it seems to promise some sort of Clockwork Orangeade that just isn't on the menu:


I Only Wanted You To Love Me is pretty affecting. Our hero just can never get beyond his frosty mother and his patronizing father, despite a job and marriage. Bad results ensue. I liked the way the main character is always bringing flowers to those he cares for, and how he is always facing the wrong direction when waiting for his wife. He tries too hard to make others happy, often creating problems by his generosity, and frequently gets blindsided by life. As with Despair, lots of mirror shots, slatted light from window blinds to visualize internal turmoil, plus circular camera pans, odd doorway framings, and other assorted Fassbinder trademarks.



Both films were released on Dvd by Olive Films mid- June 2011.
Some brief discussion of the films starting on Page 9 of the Olive Film thread.
Always good to have more Fassbinder.

[eerik]

Both films are also scheduled for a Blu-ray release in Germany. Bluray-disc.de lists both releases with English and German audiotracks.

Despair
I Only Wanted You To Love Me

[j99]

Unfortunately the Olive release of Despair has no extras and omits the documentary The Cinema And Its Double which is available on the upcoming German release. I'm not sure however whether the documentary will be German language only.

[j99]

Both films are also scheduled for a Blu-ray release in Germany. Bluray-disc.de lists both releases with English and German audiotracks.

Despair

If anyone is intending buying this edition, would it be possible to list the specs? In particular whether the English audio has subtitles and whether they are removable, and if there are English subs for the documentary? Thanks in advance.

[lachenay]

Olive's BD of Despair will have the documentary

[martin]

I have the two German Blu-rays:

Despair
Main title: 25fps, 1080i. Two audiotracks (German and English). No subs.
Documentary (70 min.): 25 fps 1080i. One audiotrack (English/French/German). Forced German subs when audio is not German.

Ich will doch nur, dass ihr mich liebst
Main title: 25fps, 1080i. German audio. No subs.
Documentary (60 min.): 25 fps 1080i. German audio. No subs.

I don't know why these are 25 fps 1080i? A bit disappointing, I suppose. Anyhow, the quality is fine.

[Peacock]

They were probably shot at 25fps like Berlin Alexanderplatz...

[knives]

There's no reason for Despair to have been shot 25 fps though especially when considering the American disc is 24 and suffers none of the problems typical of doing that change.

[Peacock]

But wasn't it a TV movie? And what are these problems? The World Blu is changed from 25fps to 24, same with Antichrist, and the Criterion DVD of Alexanderplatz, I didn't see any problems?

[j99]

Thanks for the info on the German blu ray Martin.

[knives]

Despair was a theatrical film. By problems I was referring to that PAL to NTSC look that you have with Berlin Alexanderplatz or basically any European show on American disc.

[manicsounds]

Anyone else think Angus T Jones looks like Fass?



Biopic anytime soon?

[domino harvey]

Thought that was Drake from Drake and Josh

[Lee Roy Tree]

I am new here, though I have been lurking for a while, and this is my favorite thread so far. I am 28 and I just recently heard of and have gotten into Fassbinder's amazing oeuvre, though I have been into "renegade" cinema since I was about 13. I started with Chinese Roulette, became instantly smitten, and then I went out and bought the BRD trilogy, the double disk set of Martha and 13 Moons, and Berlin Alexanderplatz. I may be weird, but I have yet to watch those. Instead, I have been renting his other works and I have been saving these for nearly last because of their reputation as a big portion of his best work. So far, I have seen the previously mentioned Chinese Roulette, Fear eats the Soul, Fear of Fear, Fox and Friends, and Mother Kusters Goes to Heaven. I have intellectually and emotionally engaged with, and enjoyed, them all. Next, I have Petra Von Kant on the way from netflix for tomorrow.
For me there are many reasons why I love his work, but the most important one is his fearlessness to challenge not only us his audience, but himself as well. I find that very intellectually attractive, and it is a personal trait that I strive for myself. Though there are flaws that, based on his reputation, he sees in himself and no matter how much he knows he should change them, yet for some reason can't, is something I can also personally identify with. I also am interested in how he points out master/slave relationships between people, and how we are all taken advantage of and take the advantage over other people and are often helpless as to choosing which one to be. I may sound like I'm talking gibberish, but I swear this all makes sense in my head.
Anyways, I love this site and this discussion, and I can't wait for February to come so I can get the Criterion of World on a Wire. I am very excited to see his take on science fiction, and how it relates to his other stuff. Oh, and I am also glad I got the BRD trilogy, for around 40 dollars used but like brand new, right before it was made out of print. The prices on that set have skyrocketed!

[zedz]

Welcome aboard and enjoy your further Fassbinder explorations. There's a lot of stylistic diversity among his films, but if you're interested in his analysis of how people exploit one another you should find something of interest in all of them!