199 Schizopolis

[mingus]

...Soderbergh... practicing self-aware filmmaking.

That is the main reason i enjoy his films and his audio commentaries so much, because you see and hear it in all his work, he stands above it.

[Steven H]

People are saying its shit or its good, and as most people approach film, the problem is never the film, but the viewer.

I think people are doing much more than saying "its shit or its good" in this thread, there seems to be a great deal of explaining regarding their points of view. And what do you mean by "most people"? As in most of the people here, or audiences in general?

I've only seen the film one time, and I feel asleep for a few minutes during the middle. I don't recall it being either funny or interesting (of what I saw) and I can't imagine desiring a second viewing. I think it might be the most self-indulgent movie ever... which may make it very worthwhile (now that I *think* about it, eh!)

These are my opinions, and if they're wrong... I don't wanna be right!

[colinr0380]

Thinking of dvddane's argument I was wondering how far The Underneath is considered Soderbergh's worst film by the director himself because it might have been an attempt to destroy his previous reputation by going to extremes in his editing style, but it failed to do so - it just seemed to be ignored but not to the extent that people had written him off, which perhaps caused Soderbergh to feel that he had to go to further extremes in Schizopolis?

I guess the worst thing for a film is to be average or OK because then it just fades into the huge mass of 'OK' films. It has to be special or great in some way, and that can also include being especially bad or provocational, because at least it inspires conversation about why a film is considered bad and what went wrong with it. Perhaps The Underneath fell into that category (as although it has been a while since I last saw that film, it didn't seem that bad - it was OK!) and after coming off the filmed performance of Gray's Anatomy as well perhaps Soderbergh needed to do something spectacular (good or bad) to kickstart interest in him again.

If this is the case how well is Soderbergh handling the pressure of his renewed success? His great flurry of films: Out of Sight, The Limey, Erin Brocovich, Traffic, all came out within a two year period and so he perhaps was not affected by the success of the first during the making of the last couple. Perhaps he kept himself that busy to not have to concern himself with the pressure of the success?

And then how far was Full Frontal a way of trying to diffuse critical anticipation for his next film by again playing with pretentiousness? And was Ocean's Eleven a sop to a multiplex audience soon to be hit with the Solaris remake?

For a moment, if we follow dvdane's argument, Schizopolis broke through the concerns with the audience and seemed to allow Soderbergh to work clear headed focusing on the story and making films that seemed to be both critical and commercial successes, whereas now it seems that unfortunately the situation has become divided between films that might be seen as personal and pretentious, like Full Frontal, and blockbuster with the Ocean films.

It is interesting that perhaps there is a current leaning towards the blockbuster while if we look pre-the upswing of interest in his career there was a tendency to favour less commercial-seeming projects. Perhaps he is testing what it is like on the complete opposite side of the spectrum to where he previously was and may then need to swing back the other way. Perhaps his best films will be made in the middle of this swing when he does not worry about pleasing either a mass multiplex audience or a mass arthouse crowd? It will be interesting to watch what happens next!

[Michael]

I haven't seen Schizopolis yet. Since 8 1/2 was mentioned earlier on this thread and it's probably the greatest excerise in self indulgence ever made, Narshty my friend, what do you think of 8 1/2?

[skuhn8]

You haven't seen Schizopolis yet? I'm afraid we're going to have to ask you to leave the thread.

[ben d banana]

whereas now it seems that unfortunately the situation has become divided between films that might be seen as personal and pretentious, like Full Frontal, and blockbuster with the Ocean films.

I would say, and I don't know if our opinions differ or not, that Full Frontal and the Ocean films are pretty much equally personal and pretentious, and in the best way possible.

And I would love an edition of The Underneath w/ a Soderbergh commentary. I like it too, but would love to hear why he thinks it's shit.

[skuhn8]

hm. How are the Ocean films personal or pretentious? They seem pretty straight-forward commercial fare (and I don't mean that in a negative way). Full Frontal, however, wow. That's a real hate-the-audience film. Physically painful to watch at times. If you can afford the use of quality film, equipment and lab, please use it. Never understood that whole pretentious Dogma 98 school of film, that annoying love letter to the handcam.

Though I confess I laughed out loud at the actor playing Hitler: "I'm swimming in the sea of Me." And then there's the Lily Tomlin recruiter from hell interview bits with the giant ball. And then there's....huh...maybe I kind of do like it.

[ben d banana]

hm. How are the Ocean films personal or pretentious?

I'm going to make a movie with all of my friends, full of in-jokes, individually handle as many duties as possible, and, while presenting what seems to be utter fluff, create a glossy tour de force display of my cinematic skill. You know, that is if I were to be Steven Soderbergh and shit. And what, do I have to wait for the HD version to get a commentary?

Disliking Full Frontal for its dodgy DV appearance is just as silly as liking it for as much. Sure, he "overdoes" it on purpose (clearly part of the point), but most filmmakers I consider great tend to do just that. Oh, that Hitler.

[djali999]

I don't mean to sidetrack this otherwise excellent thread, but I had to respond to this.

Ocean's Twelve is a pretty ballsy movie for Soderberg to have made with that cast and that money as a followup to *that* movie. His complete willingness to not have the audience be allowed any clue as to what's going on for the majority of the film really tests a lot of people's patience, I've found. Not to mention it absolutely drips with his kind of humor. The best part is that he has it both ways: it's both a glossy Hollywood fun movie and a very personal movie. To me, Ocean's Twelve shows the kind of gall that I wish every Hollywood offering were made with: he doesn't play it safe (having most of his cast in jail for the entire climax of the movie, for example).

Interestingly I've only watched Ocean's Eleven once or twice in my life despite owning it on DVD, but I've watched Ocean's Twelve a least a half dozen times now, having bought it only a few weeks ago.

Back to Schizopolis. Which I think is almost as much fun to watch.

[skuhn8]

Disliking Full Frontal for its dodgy DV appearance is just as silly as liking it for as much.

No it isn't.

[colinr0380]

I recently rewatched Sex, Lies and Videotape again and began wondering whether Schizopolis is sort of a comedy reinvention of it. This is most likely just a complete flight of fanatasy but I'm throwing it out there to see whether any others feel the same thing.

Could the doubling of the Soderbergh characters relate to the Mullany sisters - one homely and repressed while the other is outgoing and extrovert? James Spader's ersatz sexual therapist reinvented as the self help guru T. Azimuth Schwitters and Peter Gallagher's character turned into the predatory and violent Elmo Oxygen?

[knives]

Finally sat down with this one, and while I wouldn't say I love it yet, I do want to see it again and probably will end up loving it.This film has everything I love. An absurdist Kaufman anti-humor, looking at POV, and the breakdown of communication. It's really interesting how he uses language in a way that points to its nonsense, if not fully calling it useless. I could understand all of the characters even though most of them were speaking in fractured sentences or even general nonsense. Doesn't hurt that the jokes that hit the mark kill it. Especially during the news flash bits and the guru's recovery I was on the floor.

Spoiler

I am curious about his choice to kill the dentist though, which reminds me of another funny bit.

His great flurry of films: Out of Sight, The Limey, Erin Brocovich, Traffic,

Erin Brocovich is considered good? Could you, or maybe somebody else explain the appeal.

[colinr0380]

Well it has been a few years since I last saw it so I'm writing this off the cuff, but I feel that Erin Brockovich is one of the few working class conscious films of the decade (Bubble being one of the few others). It is a film that shows most clearly all of the social differences between people that superficially work to divide and let others judge them, differences that some choose to rebelliously emphasise by making themselves outsiders from social norms (a similarity it shares with almost all of Soderbergh's other films from Sex, Lies and King of the Hill through to The Girlfriend Experience). Yet the film then moves to showing people overcoming these petty differences and working together for a mutually beneficial cause. It's an uplifting, kind hearted film which I found extremely touching in the way of recognising an essential common humanity that's in danger of being lost through social fragmentation (see Traffic especially, or even The Limey, where the characters all remain isolated in their separate worlds with only occasional moments of contact) and the almost parasitic impact of commercialisation and big business on such isolated and weakened individuals.

It's probably equivalent to the later Che films in the sense that it celebrates the effect of an idea and a resistance group being formed and working together against corruption or to at least improve their lives, though with the added American element of individual self belief being enough to overcome any obstacle, no matter how large (I suppose we could also move to the other end of the scale and suggest that the Ocean's films are the idea of building a group to achieve a task and work against corruption taken to the fluffiest and most purely entertaiment oriented opposite extreme, with a capitalist rather than socialist goal)!

[knives]

That definitely makes it sound more thoughtful then I originally took it for. Maybe after hating it for five years I should rewatch. The things the really turned me off were Roberts and Dillon. Both were horribly miscast and the characters were written in as obnoxiously of a way as possible. The message is actually quite good, but the surface is so terrible.

[colinr0380]

I had better add then that I'm a closet Julia Roberts fan (though even I couldn't stand Closer!), so factor that into the above! Probably the best complement I could pay the film is that I sort of forced my dad into watching it on DVD while he protested that it looked terrible and why should he care about a film about a class action lawsuit, and by the time it finished he had been totally won over and was asking questions about the real events that inspired the film. I've got to admire any film that can win over a grumpy and uninterested father without the use of gratuitous nudity or violent action scenes!

[colinr0380]

Added to the Onion AV Club's New Cult Canon series. Reading through the article I also began wondering how much of an influence Monty Python, particularly Monty Python and the Holy Grail, had on Schizopolis. Particularly the way that this guy is playing a somewhat similar role to this guy!

[Galen Young]

In case anyone enjoys the music score to Schizopolis (as do I!), the composer Cliff Martinez has made some of it available as a download from his website.

[The Narrator Returns]

With all the recent Soderbergh releases from Criterion, can a Schizopolis upgrade be far behind?

[Gregory]

Yes.

[AnamorphicWidescreen]

Re-watched Schizopolis a while back - excellent film, though it was a huge mind-*&^$ at times. I got the impression it was mocking Scientology & corporate America, though may have misinterpreted this. It was very funny how two of the characters (the narrator & the bug guy) bore a resemblance to Soderbergh, who was also in the film. The movie was also Dilbert-like at times, re: the office scenes.

It was also hiliarious how, in the beginning, the narrator said something like, "If you don't understand this film, it's your own fault, not ours, and you need to see it again" This was especially amusing to me, since I've already seen the film twice & will probably need to see it several more times to fully comprehend what's going on...LOL

[djproject]

A few things:

1) Yes, the Monty Python influence is very much there in Schizopolis.

Spoiler

The big clue is in the Criterion DVD easter egg, which was reportedly one of the original promotional materials.

2) I first saw in 2005 or so. I remember enjoying it well but I held off on adding it to my personal shelf (for reasons that are not apparent to me at the moment). When I finally did add it to my shelf around 2010/2011 or so, it hit me that a lot of the scenes remind me of what the DIY sketch comedies are now. For instance, compare this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0vp7cZGvCo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbhrz1-4hN4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A lot of the interlude news broadcasts remind me of anyone and everyone who ever made fun of the news.

I'm not saying this to imply that Steven Soderbergh was "ahead of his time" (though I wouldn't turn down that argument for argument's sake =] ). But at the very least, it shows a innate desire for creators to amuse themselves at the very least, even if they end up being the only ones laughing.

3) A couple of years back - as a way to fight off unemployment depression and it was because it was something I wanted to do for a long time - I did a vlog series called "The djproject Criterion Collection" where I gave my detailed thoughts and impressions about all 150 (at the time) titles I had on my shelf. The one I did for this spine number was the oddest one ... but it's clear as to why that was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siI8RDT83s8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;