Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol. 4

[The Elegant Dandy Fop]

If Criterion were unable to find any supplemental material for Narayama that they felt added value for the customer, I'm glad to get the BD at this price point. It's a rather obscure film - the Imamura is far better known - by a director that likely is familiar by name to only aficionados of postwar Japanese cinema. Fill it with extras and bump it up $10 bucks and you're likely to reduce the number of blind buys. And the stylized, theatrical approach to the old tale is not likely to be everyone's cuppa.

I do agree with this but the opposite argument would be that releasing something relatively obscure should be the chance to contextualise and introduce a whole new film and director to an audience who would otherwise be unfamiliar with their work. An unparalleled opportunity to provide perhaps some of the longest pieces of writing or video discussions around the film. Which creates disappointment when an opportunity such as that is not taken, for whatever the reason.

But often times, the essay included with the release helps contextualize and inform the film enough to give the viewer a bit of information on the director, film and even on other films. The essays that come with The Makioka Sisters and Three Outlaw Samurai are good examples of this.

I'm sure Criterion did research on these films and the possibilities of special features and didn't find anything of value. Anyway, I know it's a poor argument to bring this up, but in the pre-Blu-ray/Eclipse days, they would often release films without special features and just an essay at the regular price point. At least these will be cheaper and still with an essay (something Olive Films doesn't bother with).

[Gregory]

I don't understand the dilemma of whether or not to bump the SRP by a $10 increment. DVD/Blu labels often price things in increments of 5, whereas book publishers use increments of 1. In the DVD days, it seemed like Criterion had found a workable $30 vs. $40 SRP price structure, generally based on whether they were including a commentary, but for their releases in recent years things have changed a lot and this rigid pricing makes less sense to me. Seems like a $35 SRP (and possibly some others) would make the most sense sometimes. Some may wonder if a $5 difference in SRP would really mean more sales, but I believe it really does. A 10% difference, or even less, can bring in a lot more sales, based on what I've seen.

[triodelover]

See also: Criterion's incredibly loving treatment of Lonesome

Yes, and there was obviously was a wealth of material available to make that package. It's rare we get a triple feature like that and I would have bought it at just about any price Criterion asked.

I am assuming in the case of Narayama there just wasn't enough English friendly material to flesh the package out to the $39.95 MSRP level. We are getting a booklet that includes an essay. The Tartan DVD (yes, I know it's Tartan) had nada.

As far as Ministry of Fear goes, it's hardly the top drawer of Lang's Hollywood efforts. (I'd reserve that drawer for his collaborations with Joan Bennett, especially the Robinsons.) I'm not sure if it weren't for Ray Milland, the cake and the unfolding of the first 20 minutes or so it would even make the collection. And that's ignoring Mrs Riley in the female lead. The lower price (which will make it about $20 at on-line retailers) makes the BD worthwhile, particularity with an on-disc interview and a booklet with an essay. Add that extra $7-10 and it gets a pass.

[ryannichols7]

They had a pretty good one last month.

You're right...I forgot that Ballad of Narayama was also a $29.95 blu title. I'd be more than happy to have one a month like that in lieu of "loaded" editions rather than adding extras for the sake of extra content.

Criterion isn't Olive, though.

we complain about too little extras and now complain about too much? come on, people.

[triodelover]

we complain about too little extras and now complain about too much? come on, people.

Except no one is complaining about too much. All that's been said is that it's occasionally nice on the pocketbook when Criterion offers films at the lower price point when there aren't sufficient relevant English-friendly extras to justify a price bump. Neither of films under discussion are being offered bare bones.

[duck duck]

So, New years drawing... Any guesses on how they will hint at Y Tu Mamá También? I think the only option left may be having some one screaming it in a "word bubble".

[ryannichols7]

So, New years drawing... Any guesses on how they will hint at Y Tu Mamá También? I think the only option left may be having some one screaming it in a "word bubble".

probably some depiction of Gravity holding the word bubble down

i'm sure that despite the fact we know Repo Man is coming, they'll hint at that pretty heavily in the drawing

three drawings of Apu would be pretty great, though

[MongooseCmr]

I'm trying to think of a sketch for Shoah that wouldn't come off as mocking the ordeal but I can't.

[TheBeast]

Artificial Eye are releasing Mouchette and Au Hasard Balthazaar on Blu-ray in April so that probably means that criterion could announce them in a couple months.

[triodelover]

Artificial Eye are releasing Mouchette and Au Hasard Balthazaar on Blu-ray in April so that probably means that criterion could announce them in a couple months.

It will likely be another Certified Copy, then - same transfers, more extras on the Crit, vastly different price.

[MichaelB]

It will likely be another Certified Copy, then - same transfers, more extras on the Crit, vastly different price.

As of today, Amazon is charging £8.00/$12.92 for the Artificial Eye BD, and £17.32/$27.99 for the Criterion BD. That's not including shipping, which for me as a UK resident would increase the price of the Criterion still further.

Granted, the Criterion has more extras, but that's still one hell of a mark-up.

[ellipsis7]

And so many more copies presumably sold stateside at those margins...

As CERTIFIED COPY was shot on HD digitally using the RED camera, technically there was not a 'transfer', although the same master could be digitally graded slightly differently by AE & CC...

The Bressons obviously require a film transfer in HD, at which stage there will be grading in the telecine, with further differing digital grading possible of the resulting HD master... For instance, compare and contrast the BFI & CC RED DESERT BRs...

[matrixschmatrix]

To be fair, in the US it's generally possible to get Criterions for $14-16 during Barnes and Noble sales, if you get things lined up properly, and certainly no more than $20. Paying $7 for a copy of The Report in HD seems perfectly fair to me.

[MichaelB]

If you want it. But I went for another Artificial Eye BD instead.

[ellipsis7]

THE REPORT is very rare AK... I'd only seen it once before on a multi generation NTSC VHS dub (I think originally loaned by Jonathan Rosenbaum), with portraits of the Shah hanging in the office obscured by black felt pen on the print frame by frame... It was most of the reason I picked up the CC CERTIFIED COPY BR in addition to the AE...

[triodelover]

If you want it. But I went for another Artificial Eye BD instead.

Exactly. After VAT removal, the AE Certified Copy was under 7 quid. Bundling several other purchases with it made it far less expensive than the Crit with shipping to the US included.

Matrix, I don't know anywhere you can by a Crit BD at the $39.95 price point for $14-$16. During a B&N sale, $20 if you are willing to put up with the creative approach to shipping B&N employs. The rest of the time, Certified Copy will be over $25 at the preferred e-tailers.

The Bressons obviously require a film transfer in HD, at which stage there will be grading in the telecine, with further differing digital grading possible of the resulting HD master... For instance, compare and contrast the BFI & CC RED DESERT BRs...

Point taken, but AE's BDs generally have been of high quality in the PQ department - the Classic Bergman set, for example. There were several who preferred the BFI Red Desert, as was evident in the rather long discussions about them here.

[matrixschmatrix]

Matrix, I don't know anywhere you can by a Crit BD at the $39.95 price point for $14-$16. During a B&N sale, $20 if you are willing to put up with the creative approach to shipping B&N employs. The rest of the time, Certified Copy will be over $25 at the preferred e-tailers.

Oh, it mostly only works if you can go to a B&N in person- it lets you get a 10% membership discount and whatever 10-25% coupons are floating around. It's certainly kind of a hassle, but there are other ways to get a decent price on Criterions- Best Buy and Amazon both just had lengthy sales, and even right at this moment I think Certified Copy is $23.99 at Barnes and Noble.

I'm not going to blame anyone for picking the AE release, I just think it's a situation where either way is a fair choice. For me, I buy a bunch of Criterions during any sale, so it's easy to add another one to the list than to import something.

Obviously, it also depends on how one weighs extras vs price, which extras are most important, all that sort of thing.

(Incidentally, assuming the B&N sales keep going in the same way, I don't mind picking a couple of extras and sending them to you guys, if that'll save you a bunch of money.)

[triodelover]

You go places in person!!!

I don't blame anyone for their choice. I think I'm reacting to what I perceive is an assumption in some quarters that a Criterion issue will automatically be "better", which seemed implicit in the OP's comment. I just don't think that's necessarily true. Certainly depending on one's preferences, it isn't always the better value. Criterion might upgrade the two Bressons at some point and those upgrades might have better transfers. The Criterions will likely have more extras, which may or may not represent added value, depending on the individual. But unless you are region locked, why dismiss the AEs, which may provide equal quality (at least as far as the main feature is concerned) at a lower price? Perhaps I just don't have the appropriate reverence for the Wacky C.

[Gregory]

How about this for a reason that has nothing to do with reverence for the Wacky C? If I get Criterion upgrades, I can sell my Criterion DVDs. If I go with the AE blu-rays, I'll want to keep the Criterion DVDs for the extras. What I can get for the Criterion DVDs would likely be more than the difference in price between the Criterion (B&N sale) and AE blu-rays, plus the advantage of saving shelf space.

[triodelover]

How about this for a reason that has nothing to do with reverence for the Wacky C? If I get Criterion upgrades, I can sell my Criterion DVDs. If I go with the AE blu-rays, I'll want to keep the Criterion DVDs for the extras. What I can get for the Criterion DVDs would likely be more than the difference in price between the Criterion (B&N sale) and AE blu-rays, plus the advantage of saving shelf space.

I probably place less value on extras, unless it's an extra film that I want as part of the collection (the Lonesome package, CC's Trouble in Paradise). I'll listen to interviews usually once and rarely return. I'm not a commentary guy. So when the SC Jeux interdit arrives in January, the CC DVD will go. If the AE Bressons are up to snuff, I'll buy them and both CCs will go. I don't have the space to do otherwise. (To save space, I just broke up the CC's of Early Spring and Ugetsu monogatari and put the Wenders and Shindo docs in slim cases because I had the BFI and MoC blus. I tried selling the remaining packages at my local used DVD/CD/book reseller and eventually dumped them in his freebie bin, which I'm cool with 'cuz someone will get to see the movies that might otherwise not have.)

I appreciate wanting to wait and see if CC issues a BD package equivalent to their SD issue rather than purchase the film on a different label with different extras. But that's not what I read in the OP's post, although perhaps I'm reading too much into it.

[Murdoch]

I'm in a similar camp, and largely buy based on the quality of the sound or picture rather than the quantity/quality of the extras, which I only delve into nowadays when I already had a considerable interest in the film. Price is the often the deciding point and for someone who isn't a member of B&N the benefits of their sales are limited.

[knives]

Though I think the extra of another film as is the case of Certified Copy that argument doesn't work as well. I likewise have a minimal amount of interest in extras usually skipping them entirely, but if I can get a second film out of the deal especially a rare one from a director I love that means a lot.

[bamwc2]

Didn't Criterion release their New Year's drawing on the 31 of last year? If so, I wonder if they'll follow suit this year. Also, I can't seem to recall, was it posted on their main page or sent out as an email? I guess that I'm too anxious for this one. Release it already! ](*,)

[RyanGallagher]

Didn't Criterion release their New Year's drawing on the 31 of last year? If so, I wonder if they'll follow suit this year. Also, I can't seem to recall, was it posted on their main page or sent out as an email? I guess that I'm too anxious for this one. Release it already! ](*,)

No, they are posted on The Current on the first as a "Happy New Year" post.

[Jeff]

Didn't Criterion release their New Year's drawing on the 31 of last year? If so, I wonder if they'll follow suit this year. Also, I can't seem to recall, was it posted on their main page or sent out as an email? I guess that I'm too anxious for this one. Release it already! ](*,)

No, they are posted on The Current on the first as a "Happy New Year" post.

Though someone *ahem* taunted us with a blurred version of it the night before.

Here's hoping we can inaugurate the new thread with this year's drawing early tomorrow morning.