Kino

[vsski]

I think we are starting to mix too many things at the same time into this thread. Originally this started as a comparison between the release of the same movie by two different labels. And the main argument was that for people who are multi-region enabled, who know about both releases and actually buy discs, the MoC version offers more for less money.

And since this isn't the first time that is a valid comparison between Kino and MoC, several posters, most notably Gregory and I have remarked that we feel Kino is getting lazy and we'd wish they would up their game again.

Others here obviously feel different and that is perfectly ok.

The latest argument regarding the competition of streaming is of course a real threat to many labels of physical media, but in my opinion doesn't mean that because of it, Kino as along as they put out physical product in decent form regardless of extras, will be ok.

On the contrary my argument is that we will continue to see many of the big labels diminishing their output of physical discs and going more and more the MOD and streaming route.
The companies that will continue to produce physical media will be a handful of small niche labels like the Criterions, the MoCs and the Arrows of this world. And they will cater to a small niche market of cinephiles and collectors. I fully expect to see a diminished choice of titles in the future and to have pay more for a disc than I do today. So for these labels to survive and command a premium price it will be important that they provide extras to make the difference over streaming services whose quality will only improve as time goes on - otherwise even cinephiles and collectors will likely not bother to pick up bare bones releases anymore.

Therefore I think it is important for companies like Kino not to drop the ball and continue to produce above average versions of their discs.

[med]

Potential thread split title:

Business Models: Kino vs. the World

[MichaelB]

Potential thread split title:

Business Models: Kino vs. the World

It would be cruel of me to post the specs of Arrow's latest Mario Bava release here, wouldn't it?

Let's just say that their edition of Rabid Dogs appears to be just a bit better than Kino's Kidnapped (as the titles alone should make clear), and leave it discreetly at that.

[dwk]

The only Kino Bava release that anyone should buy is Bay of Blood because Kino's transfer is a lot better than Arrow's.

The lack of Rabid Dogs on Kino's Kidnapped is infuriating and inexcusable and it is nice that Arrow is releasing that film correctly.

[FrauBlucher]

I agree with the premise that Kino has dropped the ball. Whether it's laziness or finances who knows. I think everyone will agree that their product is not what it once was.
In recent time, they lost a bunch of films to Cohen, who's early results have been pretty damn good. And how about Kino not being aggressive and getting the Herzog films. Those films use to be right up their art film alley. And their hidef transfers have been just OK, some good and some not so good.

Also, I'm concerned about two filmmakers Kino have under their control, Haneke and Tarkovsky. I am skeptical at their recent ability to give these respective films the care they deserve. We'll see.

If you had standings for these companies like they do in sports, Kino would be around the bottom of the pack.

[Moe Dickstein]

Plus if you want to argue about things going to streaming, and you're a physical media company you have a couple choices -

a) give up.
b) make your releases better/more compelling than streaming

Kino are the worst.

[swo17]

And how about Kino not being aggressive and getting the Herzog films.

Couldn't this criticism be equally applied to every R1 arthouse label, including Criterion?

[FrauBlucher]

Couldn't this criticism be equally applied to every R1 arthouse label, including Criterion?

Desperate times call for desperate measures. So you would think.

[captveg]

they lost a bunch of films to Cohen

I've wondered if perhaps this was more harmful to them than we realize. They were going strong with the Buster Keaton releases and a handful of others like Birth of a Nation, and then they lost that catalog. Now they basically seem reliant on what they can license from other film rights holders, with their "Classics" label slowing down noticeably and relying on other companies doing the mastering (for good or ill - and some like Bird of Paradise are definitely the latter), and heavier emphasis on the other labels such as "Redemption", "International", etc.

[captveg]

In other news, Bob Furmanek provided his personal print of The Devil Bat for that release, so that's a positive.

[Zot!]

Kino are the worst.

You've never bought a Facets release apparently.

[Matt]

Or New Yorker. Or Fox Lorber. People don't know how good they have it now.

[Moe Dickstein]

Tell us again about walking uphill both ways in the snow to school

[MichaelB]

Kino are the worst.

You've never bought a Facets release apparently.

I had to watch Facets' The White Dove again recently, as Second Run's new master wasn't yet ready. Dear God, what an absolute abomination - even if Second Run provide optional, properly-synchronised subtitles it will still be a substantial advance, but I have every confidence that they'll significantly improve on the smeary, sub-VHS quality picture too.

Is Facets still in business, incidentally? It's ages since I last saw one of their releases.

[Matt]

They do still release the occasional title. They just put out Jan Nemec's Code Name Ruby on DVD-R last week.

[Zot!]

Is Facets still in business, incidentally? It's ages since I last saw one of their releases.

I don't know about their releasing, but their Cinematheque is still around in Chicago. The theater itself and the video rental was/is an unbelievable resource, and have been the only place in town to watch really unusual stuff, meet people like Bela Tarr, and view a complete Eustache retrospective in 35mm prints.

[FrauBlucher]

The sad thing about Facets is they have the rights to Bela Tarr. As long as this holds up we will never see his films in glorious 1080p. I guess in this regard Kino rates higher.

[swo17]

Do they though? It was recently revealed that Facets didn't have the rights to a number of their Czech releases.

[FrauBlucher]

Hopefully, that means the Hungarian films as well.

[zedz]

The sad thing about Facets is they have the rights to Bela Tarr. As long as this holds up we will never see his films in glorious 1080p. I guess in this regard Kino rates higher.

Never?

[FrauBlucher]

The sad thing about Facets is they have the rights to Bela Tarr. As long as this holds up we will never see his films in glorious 1080p. I guess in this regard Kino rates higher.

Never?

With the exception of The Turin Horse, of course. LOL.... Which I own. The stunning The Turin Horse blu shows us why his films need to be upgraded.

[vsski]

The only Kino Bava release that anyone should buy is Bay of Blood because Kino's transfer is a lot better than Arrow's.

I've been trying to find a more detailed technical review of the Kino version or a good comparison between the two, but have not been able to find anything. I know one criticism of the Arrow was the color palette on the English version - the Italian version was a bad SD transfer anyhow. Are you saying that Kino's A/V on the English version is significantly better or also on the Italian one (I only found one reference to the Kino Italian version which makes it seem equally bad as the Arrow). Arrow does have better extras of course, just curious if you have any more detail.

[dwk]

I believe that the Italian version is from the same source. The DVD talk review has some screenshots that show the difference between the two transfers of the US version.

[vsski]

Thanks dwk, haven't visited DVD Talk in ages, no wonder I missed it. It looks indeed like the color issues on the Arrow have been corrected on the Kino, extras of course are slimmer. It's too bad that the Arrow disc was made prior to the arrival of James White and the subsequent changes that have made Arrow one of the best labels out there today. Maybe one day they revisit it and possibly find a better source for the Italian version as well - although I can't see them redoing it any time soon.

[dwk]

No problem. I have to say that Adam Tyner is one of the best Blu-ray/DVD reviewers around and is a reason to check out the reviews section of DVD Talk.