Technical Issues and Questions

[tenia]

You might want to go in the "Settings" page, and then through 2 things : Display settings, and Video settings.

In Display settings, you should be able to properly set up the connexion between the PS3 and your TV set in the option "Video Output settings". This is where you will find the option to indicate your TV as 16:9.
In Video Settings, you'll be able with the 2nd half of options to adjust things like the 24p output, the method of upscaling and the audio transcription made by the PS3.

[knives]

Thanks, I didn't think to go there. I'll check in the morning to see if that made a difference.

[artfilmfan]

Here's hoping someone can help. When playing Criterion Blu-ray disc (such as La Notte) on my Oppo BDP-83, if I stop it and then come back to continue watching it at another time, the disc does not resume at the location where I stopped. Instead, it restart at the main menu. Is this a unique feature of the Criterion discs or is there something that I can do to overcome this so that the disc will resume at the previously stopped location?

[David M.]

^ This is normal (sort-of) for discs authored in the BD-Java mode, and is one of the main reasons I like the HDMV format.

On HDMV discs, the player's own resume function will work. But on Java discs, the resume feature has to be separately programmed into the disc itself, rather than being taken care of by the player. I thought Criterion had programmed their own resume feature?

[fdm]

Here's hoping someone can help. When playing Criterion Blu-ray disc (such as La Notte) on my Oppo BDP-83, if I stop it and then come back to continue watching it at another time, the disc does not resume at the location where I stopped. Instead, it restart at the main menu. Is this a unique feature of the Criterion discs or is there something that I can do to overcome this so that the disc will resume at the previously stopped location?

Most blu-rays won't let you resume, unless they are simple ones without fancy menus and/or features (i.e., no java code) or they have been coded specifically to let you resume. I know that some Criterions were coded to resume (they prompt you whether you want to start over or resume from where you left off). You might want to try enabling the Auto Resume and Auto Play Mode settings on your player (under the Playback Setup settings) if it has them.

[jindianajonz]

I'm having an intermittent problem with my Sony HDB-F7 player. The player will sometimes not be able to read discs- instead, it makes clicking sounds for a few seconds, then says "invalid" on the player itself and some generic "unable to play this disc" message on the screen. It'll do this for multiple discs, both blu and dvd, and will happen both when inserting the disc the first time, or when trying to select an episode from the main menu of a TV show. The next day, it may be working fine again.

Normally this is the type of thing I'd try to send in for repair, but in my experience repairing intermittent failures are a waste of time and money- often they'll try once, and if it works the first time they'll just send it back as is. Are there any other options available to me, or is it time to start shopping for a new system?

[Adam X]

I'll leave the educated guess to someone who knows far more about the inner workings of CD/DVD/BD players than I, but it does sound an awful lot like a problem with the laser pick-up, which is one of those "it'll be cheaper to buy a new player" problems, unless you know how to repair it yourself.
Wouldn't do any harm to get it checked out, at least then you'll know for sure.

That of course all depends on the condition of the disc you're putting in the player. If the disc is fine, then obviously it's a hardware issue.

[artfilmfan]

Thanks for your post, David M. and fdm. I checked several Blu-ray discs and found out that some resume and some don't. Criterion's La Notte and Lionsgate's The English Patient do not resume. AE's The Double Life of Veronique, Gaumont's Police, and Tokyo Sora (from Japan) resume. I also checked my player and it appeared that there is no option to turn on/off the function. However, it appears that the player has been enabled to perform the resume function automatically if the disc allows it. One observation: the discs that do not resume take a long time to load or initialize. Those that resume load/initialize quickly and they are (as you mentioned) simpler discs with little extra materials.

[David M.]

One observation: the discs that do not resume take a long time to load or initialize. Those that resume load/initialize quickly and they are (as you mentioned) simpler discs with little extra materials.

The amount of extra materials is unrelated, it's to do with how the menus are programmed. The ones that take a long time to load and don't resume are the Java discs.

For example, Eureka's UK version of VAN GOGH which I did is 100% HDMV but has about 5 hours of extras + the film on there.

[jindianajonz]

I'll leave the educated guess to someone who knows far more about the inner workings of CD/DVD/BD players than I, but it does sound an awful lot like a problem with the laser pick-up, which is one of those "it'll be cheaper to buy a new player" problems, unless you know how to repair it yourself.
Wouldn't do any harm to get it checked out, at least then you'll know for sure.

That of course all depends on the condition of the disc you're putting in the player. If the disc is fine, then obviously it's a hardware issue.

Thanks, that's what I figured, but I thought I may as well ask and try to save a few bucks. It's definitely a hardware issue; it's happened on 5 different discs, 3 of which were blu and 2 were DVD.

[artfilmfan]

One observation: the discs that do not resume take a long time to load or initialize. Those that resume load/initialize quickly and they are (as you mentioned) simpler discs with little extra materials.

The amount of extra materials is unrelated, it's to do with how the menus are programmed. The ones that take a long time to load and don't resume are the Java discs.

For example, Eureka's UK version of VAN GOGH which I did is 100% HDMV but has about 5 hours of extras + the film on there.

Thanks for the clarification.

Whatever the benefits of Java encoding are, these discs are very inconvenient.

[Jonathan S]

Whatever the benefits of Java encoding are, these discs are very inconvenient.

Aye, for me they are irritating enough to deter purchase in many cases if I think the blu-ray will be a Java. On my Sony (even with the latest firmware) they usually take at least five minutes - sometimes nearer ten - to reach the main menu, and they can't just be left to load as one usually has to select "English" or something half-way through the process. This is particularly annoying with a projector, as lamp time is being consumed. On more than one occasion, when I've accidentally pressed "Stop" instead of "Pause", I've been forced (by time constraints) to abandon a film completely as the disc reverts not merely to the menu screen, but the start of the whole bloody loading process!

Fortunately, most of my blu-rays are from UK independent labels which, as mentioned in another thread, don't use Java. However, Odeon appear to be an exception if their "non-resumable" Witchfinder General is typical. Among the Hollywood majors, only Warner - at least for the older films I've bought - seem to favour the simpler HDMV system, and consequently I've upgraded more of my Warner DVDs than those from any other big studio.

[LavaLamp]

Great thread - Thanks very much to all who post to answer questions here.

Another question, specifically regarding some BD's: I have been watching a lot more of these lately, and am overall extremely impressed with the enhanced picture quality (I got my first BD player a while back, and have been revisiting a lot of older films). In particular, the BD releases of Angel Heart, Taxi Driver, Paris Texas, Blue Velvet, and the 35th anniversary release of Halloween were stunning.

However, the issue I've been having is that some BD films do not look good. Specifically, I recently saw the BD releases of Leaving Las Vegas & Dreamscape - both were, overall, poor releases & felt that I may as well have been watching regular DVD's. So, is it because these BD releases are slightly older (In these cases, the BD's were released in 2010 & 2011)?! Or, is it just that, for whatever reason, they can't clean up the picture to be of BD quality?

Note that I also saw To Live and Die in L.A. on BD recently, and though that seemed a little better than the regular DVD, it wasn't up to par with some other BD releases I've seen. The director (W. Friedkin) was interviewed in the special features, and he said that they did everything they could to improve the PQ for the BD release, and that it was superior to the regular DVD (which I agree with). What seemed to be left unsaid was that the PQ may have had limitations that made it difficult to improve that much...

Anyway, I may have answered my own question here, but I'm guessing that those with more expertise than I do can shed more light on this...Thanks in advance for any info.

[David M.]

A lot of the time they'll just lift an older telecine transfer done in the 1990s and deem it good enough for BD. Most of the limitations are down to old film-to-video transfers. That process has improved enormously. Most people, especially in Europe where HDTV appeared incredibly late, aren't aware that HD telecine has been happening since 1993 (Universal even did HD transfers using a Rank Cintel mkIII which was modified for HD).

This is what is allowed to happen when you have people willing to accept anything provided it's "better than DVD". And of course, budgets very rarely allow for new scans to be done each time.

Sometimes the limitations can be down to the original film source, though, but the transfer is the more likely culprit.

Also, if you're not viewing on a professionally calibrated screen, you're not getting the best out of it and your TV could be bungling things.

In order of guilt for unsatisfying quality on BD, I'd say the hierarchy goes TV, video transfer, original film elements.

[LavaLamp]

Thanks very much for the quick response. I've got an excellent HD TV, with overall superb PQ - most BD's (and some regular DVD's) look fantastic on this. So, the issues I'm having must be with the specific BD transfer/film elements.

It's also interesting to note another phenomenon - when watching some regular DVD's and/or Blu-rays, an HD TV can make a flawed picture even worse - in other words, in my experience an HD TV's great PQ can actually make a poor transfer even more obvious. In particular, the 1999 Heat & the 2007 Halloween DVD's look awful on my HD set - the colors are washed out, the grain is horrible in many cases, etc. When I saw these same DVD's on an older, non-HD set, the flaws weren't nearly as obvious....

This is one of the many reasons I'm a huge fan of the Criterion DVD's & BD's. For the most part, they take the time & effort to remaster the picture/sound so that everything looks & sounds the best.

[David M.]

Unless it's properly set up, it will be distorting the picture - regardless of how good the hardware is.

Without seeing it, it's impossible to say, but it's very likely that the picture setup is making things worse than necessary. Out-of-the-box TV settings are designed to scream "bright" in the showroom, not to make content look good at home.

[jindianajonz]

Here's an odd one: whenever I press a button on my parents Blu-ray player, it does what I ask, then ejects the disc. It doesn't matter if Iuse the remote or the buttons on the player itself. If I power it off, it pops the disc out and shuts down. Same when turning it on; first thing it does is eject. Obviously I can't actually played a disc beyond the menu. I'm pretty sure it's gonna need a replacement (despite being a tad over a year old) but it's such an odd problem...

[MichaelB]

However, the issue I've been having is that some BD films do not look good. Specifically, I recently saw the BD releases of Leaving Las Vegas & Dreamscape - both were, overall, poor releases & felt that I may as well have been watching regular DVDs. So, is it because these BD releases are slightly older (In these cases, the BD's were released in 2010 & 2011)?! Or, is it just that, for whatever reason, they can't clean up the picture to be of BD quality?

I can't speak for Dreamscape, but Leaving Las Vegas was shot in 16mm on a very low budget, so you're never going to get a reference-quality transfer out of it. I daresay there's room for a small amount of improvement, but probably not a huge amount.

[LavaLamp]

However, the issue I've been having is that some BD films do not look good. Specifically, I recently saw the BD releases of Leaving Las Vegas & Dreamscape - both were, overall, poor releases & felt that I may as well have been watching regular DVDs. So, is it because these BD releases are slightly older (In these cases, the BD's were released in 2010 & 2011)?! Or, is it just that, for whatever reason, they can't clean up the picture to be of BD quality?

I can't speak for Dreamscape, but Leaving Las Vegas was shot in 16mm on a very low budget, so you're never going to get a reference-quality transfer out of it. I daresay there's room for a small amount of improvement, but probably not a huge amount.

Good to know - Thanks for the info. I know that LLV had a sub-par print, and that it wasn't my set.

Not a big deal, since I had read the novel Leaving Las Vegas (by John O'Brien) long before I saw the film, and the book is far superior....

[pistolwink]

I've just made the switch to a new plasma/Blu-ray setup and am having trouble determining whether I'm seeing 24fps material in true 24fps. I'm no home theater expert, but I know the basics about video formats, framerates, and display settings.

I watch a lot of 35mm at my local Cinematheque and am very sensitive to differences in the qualities of motion of film and video. I'm not sure if the things I'm noticing are standard for Blu-ray viewing, or if they might indicate that I have some settings wrong.

Here's my equipment:
-TV: Panasonic VIERA P50-ST60
-Blu-ray: Sony BDP-S5100, hardware modified to be region-selectable (for Blu)and region-free (for DVD). Connected to VIERA via HDMI.

So, I set up the TV and DVD player. I calibrated the TV using primarily the settings recommended by CNET here:
http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_102-5 ... -settings/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Based on what I've read, the two machines should be able to present 24fps material in true 24fps and preserve a "cinematic" look.

So, in the past day I've been trying out dozens of different discs to see how things look. The short version is that some discs, mainly Blu-rays, have to my eyes (and my roommate's) a distinct video-like look - Soap Opera Effect, a televisual appearance, the "Live from the Metropolitan Opera" look, or whatever you want to call it (for efficiency I'll just refer to it as SOE).

I want to emphasize that the TV's motion smoothing feature is definitely, unquestionably OFF. Not on "weak," but entirely off. However, the unappealing look that I'm seeing is similar to the effects of motion smoothing, just somewhat more subtle. The TV is set at 60Hz, but I've tried it at both 48Hz and 96Hz, and while I notice some changes (e.g., increased flicker w/the former), the quality of motion/SOE remains unchanged.

It's most noticeable in the following kinds of images/scenes:
-sinuous movements like smoke and rippling/moving water
-crowd scenes with lots of bustle (the people tend to look like the masses of fake-looking orcs in a LOTR battle scene)
-camera movements

The degree to which I notice this look varies widely by movie/disc.

Perhaps the worst was MOONRISE KINGDOM. The early flashback scene showing the performance of Noye's Fludde (which has quite a bit of rapid camera movement) was unwatchably distracting due to the quality of movement. MOC's release of WILL SUCCESS SPOIL ROCK HUNTER? was also very bad to my eyes. The opening of PSYCHO, with the camera movements around the city skyline, was distracting. Same with the camera movements that scan the apartment courtyard in REAR WINDOW (both Blus from the Hitchcock Essentials collection). TRUE GRIT looked cheap and dreadful. I noticed it a bit on TOKYO STORY (Criterion Blu), CARMEN JONES, and INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS.

On other discs, including some upconverted DVDs but also some Blus, I didn't see the SOE effect, or if I did it was so subtle that it wasn't distracting. Examples here include:
THE BIG PARADE, PEOPLE ON SUNDAY, Ugetsu (MOC Blu), Ruggles of Red Gap (MOC Blu), THE DRIVER and DRUMS ALONG THE MOHAWK (Twilight), WHITE HEAT, APOLLO 13, THE TURIN HORSE. The upconverted dvd of DAY OF THE OUTLAW looked quite good - I tried a dance scene with lots of rapid, circling movement (of characters and camera) and it was fine to my eyes.

So. I realize that I'm watching these on video, not 35mm. Maybe my expectations are just too high, or my eyes too sensitive after being spoiled by 35mm prints. But I never really noticed this on DVDs (except with bad transfers/PAL to NTSC issues/digital films).
Possible factors, and questions:
-Is it a function of the larger screen size? The resolution?
-Do different Blu-rays, despite all being 1080/24p, look different (in terms of quality of motion) on the same machines due to mastering, authoring, or other factors?
-Does anyone have similar experiences? Is this just an inevitable aspect of Blu-rays, even with a good home viewing setup? Is it something I'll just 'get used to' after awhile? I just can't imagine that cinephiles/AV enthusiasts would accept this as a convincing approximation of a "cinematic" look.
-The Sony is supposed to be the next best thing for people who can't afford an OPPO. Is stuff like this the difference between the two? I'd be inclined to think so if the motion issues were just happening with off-region discs, but that's not the case.

Help?

[fdm]

For 24 on my ZT60 tv, the player has to be set to 1080p24, and the tv has to be set at 96Hz (or possibly 48Hz, which is also a multiple of 24, but I haven't tried that). If you are running at 60Hz than you are getting is 3:2 pulldown (so not 24). When I click the info button of the tv it will display 1080p24, and then when I dig further into its setup menus it will indicate 96Hz as a still-selected option (which is only available when the 24 is set on the player and a 24 friendly blu-ray disc is in it).

Not seeing anything other than what I expect (after turning off the motion smoothing first thing), but given I've lived with 3:2 pulldown for decades prior, perhaps I'm used to less.

I'm running in THX Cinema mode (with everything off, and still at default contrast and brightness), you might want to try that out to see if, with the 96Hz setting on and motion smoothing off, you still see what it is that is annoying you.

Also, if you are running the two thru a receiver you may want to turn off any video processing it may be doing.

[Roger Ryan]

I have a 65" Panasonic VIERA plasma and find that the 96Hz results in too much "flickering" during movement as "pistolwink" noted while the middle setting, 60Hz, seems the best for my tastes. However, I have yet to see the dreaded soap opera effect during playback of any Blu-ray or DVD. Nothing looks quite like 35mm projection, but the image always looks film-like as opposed to looking as if it was originally shot on video.

[fdm]

Actually, I recall reading a few other posts about similar behavior, but maybe with UK (vt) sets (?). Possibly a bad set if pistolwink is in UK, as most all of them seem to otherwise be ok. (Only heard of similar, not any resolutions, so grain of salt (and to me it's still "early", so make that two grains).)

May want to check for newer firmware for the tv, maybe the player too. After checking out THX Cinema mode.

[shaky]

In honor of it being Ozu's birthday, I decided to go ahead and watch WHAT DID THE LADY FORGET? Wonderful film(Lubitsch's influence shows strongly here), but I have a question about the transfer. I know it is progressive, but I still saw what appeared to be occasional interlacing throughout the film. What might be happening here? I live in the US, have a Samsung smart TV, and a Panasonic region free dvd player that, I believe, should be upscaling the PAL progressive image, right? Any information would be greatly appreciated.

It looks very much like the kind of horizontal lining present in MichaelB's screencaps of BFI's DVD edition of BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF THE TODA FAMILY as seen here.

[pistolwink]

Thanks for the suggestions offered thus far. This evening I'm going to try to isolate variables by playing some of the same discs on a friend's TV/Blu-ray setup, and then swapping out his Blu-ray machine for mine. I'll also do any firmware upgrades (I haven't connected either the TV or player to the internet yet).

But if people have other thoughts on the questions I listed, keep them coming!