The Simpsons List Discussion and Suggestions

[barryconvex]

i'll second the love for season 2...simpson & delilah, the first treehouse of horror, two cars in every garage...,dead putting society, bart the daredevil, one fish, two fish...and that's just the first half of the season..i've watched all of these dozens of times along with every other episode from season 3-5. for me the cracks started to show in season 6 in the sense that for the first time ever (including season 1) there were episodes i actively disliked. still a solid season but...then in season 7 (i think it's season 7) they produced some episodes written by jennifer crittenden-who also authored some of the absolute worst episodes of seinfeld-and the show really started to hit the skids. curiosity and the occasional keeper episode kept me going until season 14. once they changed to digital animation i couldn't watch it at all..my top four:

season 4 ep. 17-last exit to springfield
season 5 ep.3-homer goes to college
season 5 ep. 4-rosebud
season 5 ep. 15-deep space homer

i'd also like to add that the season four episode-"duffless" has what i consider the greatest pop culture parody not just in the history of the show but all of american television. i don't know how to post screen caps so i'll have to describe it-this is the episode where marge asks homer to quit drinking for a month after he's convicted of a DWI and loses his license. the b-story has lisa trying to determine if a hamster is more intelligent than bart after bart destroys lisa's giant tomato science project. it's in this storyline where the moment i'm referring to takes place-lisa places two cupcakes with cherries on top of the bookcase in the living room. as bart climbs up and is about to grab both cupcakes he suddenly is reduced to a quivering mass on the floor exactly the same way that malcolm mcdowell is crippled in the same situation in "a clockwork orange" when the topless woman is trotted out before his character on stage in front of the warden, prison guards and other assorted MPs. both shots are looking straight down into the character's face, his arms outstretched, his hands around (but not quite touching) the woman's nipples/cherries on the tops of the cupcakes as they are seen in the top of the frame. sorry for that long winded explanation, i really need to learn how to screen grab stuff like that. seeing the two shots illustrated side by side would make it so much more effective...and thank you to swo for starting this list..

[swo17]

I keep meaning to bring up Duffless (S4, Ep 16). It's one of those unassuming episodes whose details don't really stick too well in the mind, but it's just very well written with one of the series' stronger B-stories, as detailed above. I'd say something similar for Lisa's Rival (S6, Ep 2) where the inspired scenario of Lisa being confronted with her limitations ("Jeremy's iron?") is handily upstaged by Homer's discovery of an overturned sugar truck and the hijinks which ensue.

"I'm going to sell it directly to the consumer, all for the low, low price of $1 a pound."
"But the grocery store sells sugar for 35 cents a pound. And it doesn't have nails and broken glass in it."
"Those are prizes!"

[thirtyframesasecond]

I keep meaning to bring up Duffless (S4, Ep 16). It's one of those unassuming episodes whose details don't really stick too well in the mind, but it's just very well written with one of the series' stronger B-stories, as detailed above. I'd say something similar for Lisa's Rival (S6, Ep 2) where the inspired scenario of Lisa being confronted with her limitations ("Jeremy's iron?") is handily upstaged by Homer's discovery of an overturned sugar truck and the hijinks which ensue.

"I'm going to sell it directly to the consumer, all for the low, low price of $1 a pound."
"But the grocery store sells sugar for 35 cents a pound. And it doesn't have nails and broken glass in it."
"Those are prizes!"

I like the sugar truck segment for the English chap with the bowler hat and cup of tea "yes and I nicked it and I'd do it again"

[domino harvey]

still a solid season but...then in season 7 (i think it's season 7) they produced some episodes written by jennifer crittenden-who also authored some of the absolute worst episodes of seinfeld-and the show really started to hit the skids.

More madness from this thread. Two of her episodes are definitely making my list, and both are ones I think might be easy to forget when submitting: the Twisted World of Marge Simpson and especially Scenes From the Class Struggle in Springfield, which has a rare late season (well, I mean, later than say season two) emotional pull in Marge's desire to belong to a social "peer" organization that it turns out is merely humoring her and her Chanel alterations. Especially in that it doesn't reduce her to a shrill harpy like many episodes, this is to my eyes Marge's best showcase.

And all of the Seinfeld episodes she wrote are great, what the hell

[HJackson]

I don't think any of her Simpsons eps will make my list but I don't find any of them offensively bad. The Package and The Burning are both top rank Seinfeld though.

[Ribs]

The joke with the Twisted World with Mr. Burns winning the car at the ballgame is probably in my all-time top five Simpsons gags.

I've been watching a lot of episodes I kind of remember but also have no memory of (possibly due to my aforementioned over familiarity with the first clip show episode meaning I know a lot bits without necessarily knowing the context). Bart's Friend Falls in Love has the PSA video about the rabbits, for example.

[domino harvey]

the Last Temptation of Homer (S05/E09) I was reminded of how good this one was while contemplating the question of best Simpsons guest stars (Meryl Streep and Kirk Douglas for me, no question), as this is the one with Michelle Pfeiffer's memorable portrayal of a sexy female Homer, Mindy. Revisiting it this morning, first off, it's another hilarious episode, and it's position in the upper reaches of my top fifty has been easily cemented by watching it again. Literally every joke in the power plant lands, and while Bart's b-story is pretty weak, there's still some easy laughs here. And of course it's always fun to rewatch these on DVD and catch the little bits that were initially cut for syndication-- here the Flanders clan have a great and weird payoff to Bart's storyline that I definitely forgot from the first broadcast. Other highlights are Joey Jojo Junior Shabadoo and the gag about writing things on your hand (which, watching now, I caught a new-to-me joke where Homer misreads his response to Mindy to include "Nam-myoho-renge-kyo").

However, I've always had a problem with this episode, and I'd like to throw it out to discussion since this is one of the few Simpsons episodes that I think legit presents discussion opportunities beyond falling over ourselves to praise its cleverness: I think Mindy is far too perfect a fit for Homer. Beautiful and carbon copied on all his interests? Why wouldn't he cheat? And the ending, with Marge in the same outfit as Mindy, always makes me think that Homer did cheat and just thought of Marge instead of Mindy (which is still strange). I get that literally everything in the episode is telling Homer to cheat and he still (presumably) doesn't (though they do kiss a couple times... which is cheating... but I digress), but I think the writers stacked it a little too heavily in favor of Mindy.

This is also probably one of the few instances where the clip show usage of an episode actually added to the original, as I love the exchange between Homer, Lisa, and Marge after Homer tells the family about Mindy (paraphrased from memory):

Lisa: What happened to Mindy?
Marge: (Clearly irritated) Yes, what did happen to Mindy?
Homer: Eh, she hit the bottle pretty hard and lost her job.
Marge: Well, good.

I like Marge as a character and morally think cheating is inexcusably wrong, &c, but I have to admit this episode is probably the greatest pro-cheating episode of anything ever! But even this attitude translates into some amazing, best-of-series jokes-- the fortune cookie reveal is one of the greatest jokes in anything ever. But, in conclusion, I would leave my wife and kids for Mindy and Jeeves.

[thirtyframesasecond]

Homer's singing of 'Mandy' is great too - "you're either in love with a woman called Mindy or a man called Andy".

[domino harvey]

As an orderer of American food off the kids menu at countless Asian and Mexican restaurants as a child, I always appreciated the joke about Homer and Mindy ordering cheeseburgers at the fancy Chinese restaurant

[swo17]

Colonel Homer (S3, Ep 20) is a much more realistic episode (in which Homer becomes a successful manager to a country musician overnight) dealing with the same idea. Interestingly, in that episode, Homer seems oblivious to the other woman's advances and does not think of her as anything more than a fine musician/business partner yet Marge gets positively apoplectic about the relationship. Whereas in Last Temptation I remember Marge seeming more put-upon, perhaps unaware of just how attached Homer is getting. (Granted, his interactions with Mindy are all at work, away from Marge, whereas Lurleen was much more in Marge's face.) Also, it was a bit of a cheap ploy by the writers to have Mindy be essentially a female version of Homer. She didn't have to be that way for Homer to be attracted to her--that was obviously just a quick way to signal to the audience that we're supposed to root for them to be together. (Shame on you, audience. Naughty audience.)

As for the Crittenden discussion above, I just watched her first episode And Maggie Makes Three (S6, Ep 13) and it's a pretty great debut. Highlights include Homer storming out of his job at the power plant ("Way to play the boss's head like a bongo, Homer"), Homer discovering the baby news ("Hey Homer, way to get Marge pregnant, heh heh." "This is getting very abstract but thank you, I do enjoy working at the bowling alley.") and of course this:

Spoiler

"Don't worry Marge, they pave the way for this kind of filth in school."

[domino harvey]

And Maggie Makes Three is definitely an episode I came to appreciate more in reruns after being somewhat underenthused when it first aired. It also has two stellar all-time great jokes: as mentioned by swo, the veiled congratulations to Homer on Marge's pregnancy ("This is getting very abstract") and the entire run of Homer coming up with a plan to increase business at the bowling alley

[Ribs]

I've not even tried to begin figuring out placement beyond in/out yet but I have a hard time imagining my list not having And Maggie Makes Three in the top five. All of those first four flashback episodes will make the cut for me - there's something so utterly spectacular and heartfelt at glimpsing the Simpsons become who we know when its infused with so much geuine caring and respect for the characters. It's been a while since I've seen Lisa's Sax but I feel like a lot of the power of these episodes started getting reduced once it became a fairly routine thing that never seemed to stop (Three Gays of the Condo is of course one of the all-time lowpoints for the show, and it personally affronts me even more that is was written to be the return of the main guest character from my all-time favorite episode)

[HJackson]

I haven't seen Last Temptation of Homer in years, which given the amount of golden age Simpsons I've watched in that time means I must have marked it down mentally as one to skip (extra strange since S5 is my favourite season). I'm not sure why since dom's write-up has me eager to spin it again and give it another chance - maybe because it was on a tape I had as a kid long before the complete season DVDs and it was just played out for me. I'm more comfortable with the other early infidelity episodes Life on the Fast Lane and Colonel Homer, both of which are definite candidates at the moment. Jacques is obviously a sillier character than either Lurleen or Mindy given the lechery and the foreign accent, but I find Marge a more interesting candidate for an affair than Homer since it's more startlingly at odds with her character. Interesting that they mined that well with her long before they did it with Homer (Princess Kashmir in the very next episode surely doesn't count as cheating!)

Based on my memory of Last Temptation (and I've certainly seen it many times) I agree entirely with swo's assessment that Colonel Homer is the more realistic episode, even though it involves one of many significant one ep career changes for Homer! It also has one of the most simple but utterly flawless throw-away exchanges ever - 'hey you, let's fight' / 'them's fightin' words!' - which didn't register with me the first hundred times but just sent me onto the floor in stitches last time I saw it.

[swo17]

the entire run of Homer coming up with a plan to increase business at the bowling alley

Yes! Oh, and also Knight Boat: The Crime Solving Boat. "Aw, there's always a canal. Or an inlet. Or a fjord."

[barryconvex]

referring again to miss crittenden-here's a rundown of episodes where she's the credited writer:

season 6 ep.13-...and maggie makes three
season 6 ep.21-The PTA disbands
season 7 ep.14-scenes from the class struggle...
season 8 ep.11-the twisted world of marge simpson

none of these rise above average for me with the "maggie" episode being the best and the remaining three tied for worst. i'm sure there are certainly a lot worse names to kick around the simpsons canon but the shift from classic to not so classic television-in my eyes-starts with her. in her defense i would say that season five is such in the way of utter genius that just about anyone would look merely competent trying to follow it. still, season six has some all-time episodes with "homer the great" and "grandpa vs. sexual inadequacy" (which also features the great troy mcclure movie-"Good-Time Slim, Uncle Doobie, and the Great 'Frisco Freak-Out") destined for my top 10-15...

my all-time favorite troy mcclure movies:

the president's neck is missing
troy & co. summertime smile factory
dial "M" for murderessness
buck henderson: union buster

[domino harvey]

I always remember his appearance in the telethon Let's Save Tony Orlando's House because Yo La Tengo named a song after it

[bearcuborg]

the entire run of Homer coming up with a plan to increase business at the bowling alley

Yes! Oh, and also Knight Boat: The Crime Solving Boat. "Aw, there's always a canal. Or an inlet. Or a fjord."

"I missa da Klinger already..."

[barryconvex]

just rewatched most of season 1-the only early season i'm not on a first name basis with-and the big winner is definitely "bart the genius" which has earned a place somewhere in my top 50...now i have to find that old patty duke show episode...

[tarpilot]

Barts "Genius" and "General" (kudos to HJackson on his defense) are tops of season 1 for me, along with "Moaning Lisa". I think "General" is one of the finer depictions of children and war of the era (with my projecting shades of Borzage's No Greater Glory), and plays neatly alongside Small Soldiers, especially the satirical differences between "...there are no good wars. With the exceptions of the American Revolution, World War two, and the Star Wars trilogy" in Bart's outro and Phil Hartman's beaming "World War two is my favourite war!" in Dante's film.

[swo17]

Brother from the Same Planet (S4, Ep 14)
Bart joins the Big Brother program after Homer lets him down one time too many (he should have gotten a ride from his friends), and Lisa struggles with an addiction to the Corey hotline. Bart tells some nice lies about his real father to garner sympathy, and Homer also joins the Big Brother program to seek revenge. Tom Cruise was apparently approached to voice Bart's father figure (and the character still bears his name) but he was too busy making The Firm or something. This is perhaps one of the less celebrated episodes penned by Jon Vitti (who has one of the show's most impressive CVs--like half of these are going to make my list) but it's not for lack of trying.

'Round Springfield (S6, Ep 22)
For some reason I was tempted to skip over this Bleeding Gums Murphy episode when rewatching Season 6 but that would have been a mistake. This was something of a comeback episode for the Season 3-4 team of Jean and Reiss, and it does have a strong sentimental undercurrent that turns up more in those earlier seasons. But it's also just a really clever episode, from Bleeding Gums' backstory to Homer's own attempts at jazz to the jagged metal Krusty-O that puts Bart in the hospital. This episode was also the origin of the phrase "cheese-eating surrender monkeys."

[domino harvey]

Brother From the Same Planet is one of the best episodes that I never think of first for whatever reason, but it's definitely on my list. "Don't say revenge, don't say revenge"

[tarpilot]

"Bunch of drunken fratboys" might be my favourite Brockman moment.

[swo17]

Oh hey, I guess it's also time for a reminder that lists are due two months from today. Still plenty of time to fit in the entire run of the series if you put off some or all of your normal responsibilities.

[mfunk9786]

What do folks around here think of Lisa's Substitute? I thought it was widely going to be a shoo-in for high list placement, but seeing Dom's season breakdown from his initial list and not seeing much discussion of it leads me to believe that because it languishes in Season 2, it may be somewhat overlooked. It's the only episode of this show (okay, aside from Homer's Triple Bypass - that perfect animation of Homer at the end, looking exhausted and vulnerable, hit very close to home) that has managed to make me cry. That's gotta be worth something, right?

[Lemmy Caution]

Brother From the Same Planet is one of the best episodes that I never think of first for whatever reason, but it's definitely on my list. "Don't say revenge, don't say revenge"

What I like about the Revenge gag, is not just Homer's amusing argument with his brain.
But the follow-up joke: revenge is in fact a listed reason on the form and the woman casually checks the revenge box and accepts Homer. I love such dual/follow-up jokes.

S4 is a somewhat problematic for me. I think it's uniformly good, and there are some great jokes (as in best Simpson gags), but not too many of the whole episodes really grab hold of me. For example, Marge Gets a Job has a trio of funny "Tibor" jokes. But otherwise is just okay.

The Adoption episode should make my list.
There are a lot of great gags, such as Homer getting encrusted with starfish early in the fight, weaponizing them as throwing stars. Tom dodges the assault, catches them and carefully places the starfish into a nearby tank, saving them ... except for the fact that a shark comes by immediately and gobbles them up. Clever stuff. With good visuals too.

A Streetcar Named Marge and Kamp Krusty are very good. Definitely in consideration.
Well, I haven't gotten to the last disc in my re-watch. And I recall really liking Whacking Day.

And I thought Lisa's Substitute was considered a classic, one of the most emotional of the shows.
I like the Second Season a lot. Even how some of the voices and character models are off at times.