Call Me by Your Name (Luca Guadagnino, 2017)

[Brian C]

That's a lovely post and a real pleasure to read, thank you very much for taking the time.

[spectre]

Seconded. You've captured what's so beautiful and spell-binding about the film, and what the 'first world problems' critique (not here, necessarily, but just in general when applied to films about upper-middle-class people) so often overlooks: the depth and beauty of human existence, particularly regarding the emotional intensity of falling in love. So many films display that so superficially, either because of commercial requirements (nuance has to be sacrificed for narrative), apathy or simple lack of filmmaking skills.

And I say this as a leftist: perhaps nobody should be rich enough to be able to have their own villa in Italy with servants, but let's never forget that the struggle depicted in so much social-realist and post-colonial cinema is about finding the basic material subsistence, autonomy and freedom from violence and exploitation that can enable one to have and enjoy the basic things that so many of us crave, like having a happy family life or having the space, time and safety to fully surrender to feelings of love – a possibility that, let's not forget, has been so often denied queer people for so long. Our world is unfair; but it's not always privilege that is necessarily bad, it's that so many people are excluded from it.

[pandroid7]

Thank you both for the kind replies! And you raise a good point, furbicide, about the lack of access being part of the problem. Related, there was a small comment during the scene with that very animated couple they have over for dinner (the ones who keep talking over everyone and debating Italian politics) where the woman says to Elio's mother "you've changed since you inherited this place." It made me wonder how new their specific access to that villa and its servants was. I mean, I'm sure they weren't impoverished before that or that this detail necessarily changes much. It's just a small line whose inclusion I missed the first time around.

One thing I didn't get around to talking about in my original post is Oliver in general. In the aforementioned conversations I've had with friends about this film, everyone has a slightly different interpretation of Oliver's level of emotional investment in his relationship with Elio/his own comfort level with his sexuality/what his background is. A particular friend of mine zeroed in on lines of Oliver's and construed them in ways I hadn't thought about. He mentioned that Oliver's repeated sentiment of not wanting to hurt Elio or mess him up in some way echoed things he had heard from older lovers in his own life, and that he read those lines as code for "this will mean the world to you but not quite as much to me so I want to prepare you for that." I don't necessarily agree with that but can definitely see it as a possibility, and thinking about it in that context made the damn film hurt me all over again haha.

It's hard to know how to view Oliver since the film is really Elio's POV (as is the book I hear, I really need to read it), and so much of Oliver's behavior before he starts to spend time alone with Elio is sort of hard to gauge in terms of whether or not it's genuine or just posturing. Elio says it best in his first observation, "he seems confident". Seems feels like the operative word. His flirtation with Chiara, the self-assurance he carries himself with, his tendency to be the social butterfly flitting from place to place, can feel like an act, Oliver playing up the Adonis masculine ideal he knows people will assign to him anyway and using it as a beneficial deflection.

When he's discussing with Elio the subtle signs he gave him, he mentions that he spends hours out there alone every night. Elio starts to say what the audience has also been led to believe, that he assumed Oliver was going out at night, probably sleeping with Chiara. There are only a few other short glimpses into his state of mind, most notably the longing, mournful way he looks at Elio as he sleeps on their last night in Bergamo and the way he mentions that Elio is lucky to have parents who won't cart him off to a correctional facility. It's clear he's less comfortable with his sexuality than Elio because he hasn't been allowed to be. I really like the solarized/photo negatives technique used in that moment when Oliver is watching Elio sleep. It makes it seem as though we're witnessing a recap of their Bergamo trip through Elio's dreams, through Oliver's already wistful remembrance, or perhaps both.

I think ultimately what matters more to me than the truth of Oliver's feelings is Elio's reaction to his perception of who Oliver is, but it's been interesting to speculate more about the character the longer the film sits with me.

A couple more miscellaneous scenes I enjoyed because apparently I can't stop cataloguing them all: Marzia asking "I'm not your girl?" and sounding so girlish and devastated just kills me, and I like how their relationship comes back around when she realizes what was going on. The scenes that lead up to their first night together: Elio sitting on the road until nightfall waiting for Oliver to return (loved the film processing they used for that sequence too with the visible sprockets and light flares...idk if I'm describing this correctly, but I thought it worked really well), feigning sleep when Oliver finally comes back, writing the note and discarding it ("Way over the top" made me giggle because once again...who hasn't been there at that age?!), etc were so torturous. I felt like I was back in my teenagedom with an indelible crush, waiting for them to return a phone call. It made me twitch in my seat and sigh with relief when Elio finally received the note response from Oliver.

[Altair]

I must agree with everyone else and say that pandroid7 is just nailing everything which is just so wonderful about this film and articulating it very well. A few stray thoughts: I particularly enjoyed how intellectual exploration was celebrated in the film - it seems so rare in English language cinema to rejoice in the pursuit of knowledge, culture, and the arts for its own sake, while weaving it into the texture of the narrative. Elio and Oliver seduce each other physically yes, but also on an intellectual level, which is why the scene with Elio playing the piano works so well. I also felt that ultimately the film was incredibly life affirming - yes Elio experiences heartbreak, but the experience has made him grow emotionally and developed him as a person - it has been a good experience fundamentally. He has lived a gilded summer and the audience has been allowed to share in that pleasure.

[pandroid7]

Aw thank you, Altair, and I agree that intellectual seduction is as much of a component as the physical for this pair. I was pretty envious of Elio's atmosphere. That's pretty much my dream life, but I will probably never have the means to fulfill that!

"He has lived a gilded summer and the audience has been allowed to share in that pleasure." I love the way you phrased that.

[movielocke]

I thought this was pretty decent overall, and while laconic and boring, it is laconic and boring in the way of my summers growing up before technology.

So it does a wonderful job of capturing and manifesting that tone of “being” that one might have in such a season, and of portraying the low stakes and slight back and forths with potential partners during such youthful summers.

This all then gets intertwined with the difficulties of figuring out first kiss, first love, first sex etc. I have to admit, I chuckled at just how bad his first kiss was to Oliver, with his tongue darting about and the eagerness and awkwardness of it all. That definitely brought back memories of kissing my first (and second cause the first wasn’t very good either) girlfriend and how I made the same mistakes.

But on the other hand , the film is also just flat dull, there’s no substance to their relationship, just the relatibility of ye old “better to have loved and lost” canard. And while their relationship is developing with meaningful looks and slight gestures (which elios Mom does a lot of as well, whilst his dad hides his knowledge more masterfully), it doesn’t actually develop beyond physical touch (which is all you need to fall so hard in love at that age, generally). But that means as an adult, it’s cute, and intense, and nostalgic, but also not that impactful to watch.

And unfortunately the film also has the banal, monotonous music (what’s it called again? waltz number three by Elliot smith sufjan?), and the flashbacks in negative, and even some voiceover!

I mean I don’t think I was supposed to be more fascinated by the parents then the main characters but throughout the film I was far more Interested in them.

But of course that pays off when michael stuhlberg saves the entire film with an absolutely phenomenal monologue delivered with such quiet power and intense empathy. That one scene is so far above the rest of the film it almost makes the entire film better.

Really nice final shot with the crying tears of fire whilst snow descends too, that wasn’t on the nose at all.

[domino harvey]

Calling Sufjan Stevens banal is like that time Ebert claimed all the songs in the Graduate were forgettable

[mfunk9786]

Re: Stevens, I saw a groundswell of people griping on Twitter and such before I saw the film (or heard the songs) that the song over the end credits is the one that should have been nominated, and I remain completely puzzled by that. The song that was nominated is by far the superior and much less esoteric choice, and I'm still not really even sure the one over the end credits is all that good after some time spent with both of them, despite the lush magnificence of the end credits of this film overall. Context matters in most things, but not in the Academy Awards' Best Song category. No voters care how the songs were used in the movies, they just care that the songs are strong. And they might not even care about that.

[HJackson]

Mystery of Love definitely has a lot more meat on the bone. I think both tracks are beautiful though, and are used quite nicely in the film.

[hearthesilence]

Calling Sufjan Stevens banal is like that time Ebert claimed all the songs in the Graduate were forgettable

I like what I've heard from Sufjan Stevens (especially Illinois) and I like Simon & Garfunkel's last two studio albums. But I've never been a fan of "The Sound of Silence." Much like their worst music, it comes off as self-important and pretentious. On the other hand, I suppose it's pretty fitting given the story and what I remember about Ben Braddock himself.

[movielocke]

Calling Sufjan Stevens banal is like that time Ebert claimed all the songs in the Graduate were forgettable

I mean it sounds exactly like every elliot smith song (which all sound exactly the same), that I thought was the greatest when I was 19, so :shrug: very apt choice.

on the other hand, I didn't have the volume up very loud, so maybe I missed something other than the droning monotone singing and guitar strumming?

[domino harvey]

Dude, quit while you're behind

[DarkImbecile]

Mystery of Love definitely has a lot more meat on the bone. I think both tracks are beautiful though, and are used quite nicely in the film.

You’re not wrong that “Mystery” is the more complex song both structurally and lyrically, but I’m unapologetically one of those people mfunk mentions who rushed to complain about the choice of nominated song here and elsewhere. I don’t know whether I’m unable to extricate them from their respective emotional contexts in the film, but “Gideon” just makes me instantly emotional every time I hear it, and while “Mystery” is lovely, it just doesn’t make my heart hurt the way its sister track does.

[pandroid7]

I hadn't really thought about which is the better pick for best song (maybe that's just me cynically feeling like he won't win anyway so not caring as much about which the Academy chose). They're both plucked from pretty pivotal scenes, but I think it's nearly a neck and neck race of emotional destruction for me. They're both quite lovely. I dug that new version of "Futile Devices" too. Looking forward to seeing him perform. I may or may not be making a peach dessert for my Oscar menu.

[movielocke]

Dude, quit while you're behind

I can do worse, I didn't realize there were different songs while watching the film, since they sound the same.

[Shrew]

Smith is bad comparison for Stevens, as they share a melancholy tone and breathy whisper-singing and... not much else. But I do think he's an artist that needs headphones/decent sound, as much of his impact comes from his arrangements/production. As for the songs, I much prefer Visions of Gideon, which builds and ebbs in a much more affecting manner and is musically more interesting, but I get that the simplicity and repetition of the lyrics, while thematically appropriate, wouldn't really play on an Oscar stage. I did really hate the Sakamoto composition that scores the opening credits, so I may have started off on the wrong foot with this film.

As such, I'm also firmly in the camp that finds this a pretty but trite bore that is trying to do too much and hitting very little. I appreciate the space this occupies as queer story free of consequences for queerness, but part of the problem with the sense of privilege surrounding Elio, aside from all the class dynamics and envy, is that no one ever really challenges him. Even the girlfriend can't help but adore him after he's ghosted her. Chalamet's brooding conveys some sense of adolescence self-doubt, but it only fleetingly explores the complications of that. Likewise, I don't buy the intellectual seduction based on some flashy performance of musical styles and few stray quotes of philosophy.

In short, I don't think this film is inherently wrong-headed like Three Billboards, but I do feel like someone cut the nerves out of this film and left us with an exquisite corpse.

[TMDaines]

Really nice posts, pandroid. Made wading through the first two pages of privileged people not being understood or not feeling even more privileged people worthwhile.

[TMDaines]

I’m not sure I know what a “thesis movie” is.

[jsteffe]

Maybe something like this? Roman à thèse

[pianocrash]

The commentary track with Chalamet and Michael Stulhbarg was a nice surprise to find on the blu, and the pair are pretty charming regarding their experiences making the film, as well as how much the actors collaborated with the source material, to the point that I'm willing to forgive Guadagnino's sometimes ridiculous ambitions outside of the sphere of what eventually ended up onscreen. They both mention the 4+ hour version, as well as insight into which scenes were judiciously cut (more for time than anything else, less for any one substantial plot point). Stulhbarg's always so amazing, so hearing him talk about his choices in the sphere of Luca's intentions and goals was really fascinating, as well as the small flourishes all the actors chose here & there, which were really some of my favorite moments (the aforementioned family reading scene, for one), as well as smaller stylistic choices (the blue flaring overlaying the scene of Elio waiting in the dusk for Oliver to show up back at the house, which was actually an accident in processing the film). If anything, it all reminded me that any film worth it's weight is the process of a collaboration and compromise (and plenty of other things), which is sometimes too easy to forget.

[Petty Bourgeoisie]

This is a fantastic exercise in filmmaking. One could technically say it's perfect.

It's also the most unrealistic piece of fluff I've ever witnessed. I was hoping for a plot twist where the perfectly domesticated servants rose up and killed their pampered, sexually obsessed overlords. They could have done the deed by shoving beautifully ripened apricots down their throats.

[Lost Highway]

This is a fantastic exercise in filmmaking. One could technically say it's perfect.

It's also the most unrealistic piece of fluff I've ever witnessed. I was hoping for a plot twist where the perfectly domesticated servants rose up and killed their pampered, sexually obsessed overlords. They could have done the deed by shoving beautifully ripened apricots down their throats.

Apart from that they obviously left out how the rich eat babies for breakfast, what about the film was so unrealistic ? I came of age at around the same time as Elio and while my experiences don’t completely line up with his, there was a lot about the film I recognised and which struck me as emotionally true.

[Costa]

This is a fantastic exercise in filmmaking. One could technically say it's perfect.

It's also the most unrealistic piece of fluff I've ever witnessed. I was hoping for a plot twist where the perfectly domesticated servants rose up and killed their pampered, sexually obsessed overlords. They could have done the deed by shoving beautifully ripened apricots down their throats.

Apart from that they obviously left out how the rich eat babies for breakfast, what about the film was so unrealistic ? I came of age at around the same time as Elio and while my experiences don’t completely line up with his, there was a lot about the film I recognised and which struck me as emotionally true.

well, i guess there are such understanding parents but that whole thing was very unrealistic to me.
maybe if the plot was held today, where people are more tolerant towards gays, it wouldn't be so much, but at that time...

[HJackson]

It's also the most unrealistic piece of fluff I've ever witnessed. I was hoping for a plot twist where the perfectly domesticated servants rose up and killed their pampered, sexually obsessed overlords. They could have done the deed by shoving beautifully ripened apricots down their throats.

I don't get this at all. Nobody in the family was living like Caligula - the son had a gay love affair, that's it. And why would "the perfectly domesticated servants" want to turn on their employers? I don't recall any abuse on their end - it seems like they just paid them to cook dinner and stuff...

[Lost Highway]

Apart from that they obviously left out how the rich eat babies for breakfast, what about the film was so unrealistic ? I came of age at around the same time as Elio and while my experiences don’t completely line up with his, there was a lot about the film I recognised and which struck me as emotionally true.

well, i guess there are such understanding parents but that whole thing was very unrealistic to me.
maybe if the plot was held today, where people are more tolerant towards gays, it wouldn't be so much, but at that time...

You are looking at the film from your (mis) conception about the past, which is that all heterosexual must have been homophobic in the 80s instead of looking at what the film is doing.

Spoiler

When Elio‘s father broaches the subject at the end, he shares with his son that he feels a kinship because he felt a similar attraction when he was young. The film implies that the father may be gay or bisexual himself. That’s the big emotional moment of the movie.

There are loads of coming out films which deal with homophobia and rejection but that’s not what this film is about. It deals the internal process of coming to terms with yourself. If you are gay, you pick up on how Elio deals with internalized homophobia when the parents are hosts to an older, more flamboyant gay couple, something I remember too well from when I came to terms with my sexuality. Elio and Oliver always are careful in public, so it’s not like the film doesn’t address homophobia but it’s not what it’s subject matter is. More people were homophobic in the 80s but to claim the film isn’t realistic because not every heterosexual was homophobic is wrong. There were non homophobic straight people three decades ago and there were parents who were accepting of their gay kids.

What I loved about the film was exactly that it avoided the tropes of the coming out film to generate drama, the drama goes on inside. I read that the studio felt there needed to be a villain and apparently they gave a note along the lines that the mother should be homophobic and that would have unbalanced the film and only made it misogynistic.