Why Won't They Release Only What I Want?

[Gregory]

However, as I believe Gregory pointed out earlier in this thread, Criterion is not a subscription service. When someone doesn't like a release, or more probably assumes they won't, they simply don't have to purchase it.

Just for the record, I think that was someone else or multiple others.

[Musashi219]

I was the one who talked about the subscription service and its true.

P.S. - I think this conversation is going on far too long, and I have no idea why I'm adding my two cents to it. Perhaps we've spun our wheels long enough on this whole griping thing for 2006. (Until Kicking & Screaming is officially slated side-by-side with some other equally lackluster American indie offering from the '90s.)

P.P.S. - And if somebody tells me or anyone else "Don't buy them" for the umpteenth time I will hit them over the head with a wooden plank. The short answer is: There are far too many masterpieces out there that are completely unavailable or available in poor quality or only on VHS that we excitable enthusiastic film buffs desperately want to see put onto DVD (or just be given access to see at all!) to justify the release of the ones we are complaining about. It is that simple. Like what? Try any 5 Lubitsch silent films, any five Abel Gance silents besides Napoléon, such as La Roue, or the 1919 restored J'Accuse, (and other examples of the French Impressionist films, such as the Renoir shorts), some Straub-Huillet, some other early French New Wave stuff like Les Cousins, Beau Serge, much more Mizoguchi, Rivette's Paris Nous Appartient, other Kalatozov films, and how much Dziga Vertov is out there that you can't see!., and many Kiarostami films such as Homework are hard to get access to, and how underrepresented is Rossellini on DVD worldwide, etc.) Anyway, just listing examples. So, of course we won't buy the crap we're complaining about, but we have plenty good reason to complain and not be shouted down with shouts of "Don't buy them, you idiots." We're not buying them!!

I'll do this in two parts. First off, yes I agree, this conversation is going on for too long but I guess my second part is going to keep that going.

I guess you can go grab your wooden plank and bash my head in but not having to buy them is the truth. Yes I fully realize you won't BUY Equinox, but the constant bickering over which title deserves space while another "unrightfully" takes a spine number is getting tiresome. You just listed about 20 examples of stuff Criterion should release. If they released ALL of those titles at the same time (say some magical month came where CC had a blow-out schedule), what then? You'd probably go to your next list of films that need spines. And say that in June they were also releasing a Mizoguchi film alongside Dazed and Confused and Equinox, would you even be happy? Or, would you then say "Well I got a movie I wanted but imagine what else could've went in place of these two movies I don't care about!" The point is this: it'll never end.

Trust me there is stuff we ALL want that hasn't even graced a DVD release. Where is Bertolucci's The Conformist or 1900? Welles' Chimes at Midnight? Early Renoir? (I totally agree on that one) Or what about all the terrible editions we've seen released just last year of things like Pontecorvo's Burn! or, as someone else mentioned, the poorly handled Zhang Yimou releases?

Criterion can't get everything nor will they ever have it all. Still, I'd rather send e-mails to Mulvaney and receive the typical "Nothing is scheduled at this time." than some "Oh well we really wanted to handle this title but the rights holders won't even let us have it." I'd rather hear a broken record than get my hopes up entirely.

And to Herr Schreck who said CC doesn't observe our comments? I think what happened with the cover to Viridiana is a prime example that someone is most definitely watching.

[kinjitsu]

January - July 2006

New releases:

The Bad Sleep Well (Kurosawa)
Young Mr. Lincoln (Ford)
The Virgin Spring (Bergman)
The Complete Mr. Arkadin (Welles)
The Children Are Watching Us (De Sica)
La bête humaine (Renoir)
Kind Hearts & Coronets (Hamer)
Metropolitan (Stillman)
Murmur of the Heart (Malle)
Lacombe Lucien (Malle)
Au revoir les enfants (Malle)
Late Spring (Ozu)
Viridiana (Buñuel)
Fists in the Pocket (Bellocchio)
Harlan County USA (Kopple)
Elevator to the Gallows (Malle)
Dazed and Confused (Linklater)
À nos amours (Pialat)
Equinox (Woods)
Yi Yi (Yang)
Koko: A Talking Gorilla (Schroeder)
A Canterbury Tale (Powell & Pressburger)

Reissues, new box sets, single releases from box sets:

400 Blows (Truffaut)
Traffic (Soderbergh)
Monterey Pop (Pennebaker)
Jimi Plays Monterey & Shake! Otis at Monterey (Pennebaker)
Olivier's Shakespeare Box Set
Hamlet
Henry V
Richard III

[life_boy]

Well, when you say it like that it doesnt look as bad.

[Musashi219]

Well, when you say it like that it doesnt look as bad.

Considering that so far I have bought The Bad Sleep Well, The Virgin Spring, The Complete Mr. Arkadin, La Bête Humaine, Kind Hearts & Coronets, the 3 Films by Louis Malle boxset, Traffic and will be buying Elevator to the Gallows, Late Spring, Yi Yi and the Olivier boxset to say the least, 2006 is far from disappointing on my end.

[HerrSchreck]

[And to Herr Schreck who said CC doesn't observe our comments? I think what happened with the cover to Viridiana is a prime example that someone is most definitely watching.

I never said they don't peep into the board now and again, particularly around softball season-- I've said that already (though I don't see them much punching in anymore). I'm not talking about CC's release schedule or what goes into it. I'm talking about squeaky goofball cheerleading for CC which attempts to crush all dialog about what goes into it (much of which I myself don't agree with but big deal?) and potentially deprives them of knowing what people want in the collection in the first place.

Ben said above "write, don't buy what you don't like , but 'whinging into the void' accomplishes nothing." Whoever said anything about "accomplish anything"? Who comes onto the board looking to tilt the earth off its axis? You could pretty much just say that about the board in it's entirety. It's just a discussion. Which is why I just don't understand why people get so hysterical when someone says they're disappointed by what they perceive to be a bad month.

Times are getting so politically correct that exhibiting a unique Personality Profile elicits either an uproar of outrage ("exclusionist! hater!") or a post-punk rock faux snooze of minimalist boredom ("clearly bipolar; LSD therapy or shock treatment must be immediately pending.") and it just just seems like the goofiest attempt to gang-fuck a lone voice off the board-- voices I myself may not agree with but I don't wanta come on the board speaking with Duplicates of Me. I wanta speak with dudes like zedz, gregory, dave hare, who flip me out by illustrating for me just how much film there is I am completely oblivious to, despite my formerly lofty estimation of my own Great Film Viewership.

That's all I'm talking about-- staying cool around other people. Don't put words in my mouth.

[bjeggert82]

Considering that so far I have bought The Bad Sleep Well, The Virgin Spring, The Complete Mr. Arkadin, La Bête Humaine, Kind Hearts & Coronets, the 3 Films by Louis Malle boxset, Traffic and will be buying Elevator to the Gallows, Late Spring, Yi Yi and the Olivier boxset to say the least, 2006 is far from disappointing on my end.

I agree whole-heartedly. In my opinion, we've gotten, and will be getting, some great discs from Criterion this year... I've limited myself to all the ones that you've listed there Musashi, save Kind Hearts, and I've been completely pleased.

Mr. Arkadin alone (which I received and watched the Comprehensive Version of last night--just wonderful!) was enough DVD to last me a couple of months. How can people complain when they put out discs like this?

Not only that, but we basically know we've got more S.E.'s of Kurosawa, Tati (and new Tati), and probably some more Malle this year to come. I can't see why people are complaining. We got some great discs out thus far; it just seems so unsupportive to whine about it minor flaws that have been there all along.

Criterion's always made mistakes, they've changed their ways before and they'll do it again. It's nothing new, you people just need to learn to adapt more. Look at the positive side of things... as Eric Idle sings: "Always look at the bright side of your life."

[Schkura]

they've changed their ways before and they'll do it again. It's nothing new, you people just need to learn to adapt more

"Changed their ways"? Please indulge more. If you are referring to the Viridiana cover, to be fair, they didn't "change their ways" because they received a lot of emails telling them how cool they were.

as Eric Idle sings: "Always look at the bright side of your life."

Weren't those (well, roughly those) lyrics sung from a cross?

[kekid]

I once worked for a company whose mission statement started with "We create enduring brands.....". I believed that that phrase could apply to Criterion's mission statement. A commercial definition of "an enduring brand" for DVD's of films might be how sales in second and subsequent years compare with the first year sales. For example, how many "Rules of the Game" they would sell in second and subsequent years, and how many "Equinox"? It is a characteristic of a fashion brand that it has very high first-year and low subsequent-year sales. (I have not seen Equinox, and do not know if it is a fashion brand. It is used only as an example). Since Criterion tends to keep most of their issues in distribution until they lose rights, the long-term profitability is what will determine their commercial viability. Readers of the forum can form their own views as to which of the 2006 releases would prove "enduring".
I would also like to respond to a suggestions by fellow contributors that those who are less happy with Criterion's schedule so far in 2006 (I would hesitate to use the term "whining") ought to have seen those choices they complain about, and explain why they do not like them. This seems like a very reasonable expectation, but I would like to question it. There are a very large number of films out there, and I have not seen a very large number of them. As an extreme position, if Criterion decided to switch to only releasing films I had not seen nor known anything about, the above point of view would suggest I would have no right to express my unhappiness. But unhappy I would be, because there exist another large number of films I know about, and would like to see and have, that Criterion would have decided to ignore. For me, that would be reason enough to be unhappy.
Someone kindly posted a full list of 2006 announcements so far. I noted that I would buy only 60% of them, either because I have them already or because they do not appeal to me. This is a lower interest-quotient for me than most prior years. I am willing to accept that others do not see it that way, but that is my perspective.
Finally, I do agree with the position that ultimately we all vote with the pocketbook. However, the nature of the so-called "art films" is such that if all producers use strictly financial criteria, those who seek art films will be left with little. That is why I have great respect for what Criterion has stood for, and why I post on this thread despite the risk of having my head chopped off!

[pzman84]

I do agree with the position that ultimately we all vote with the pocketbook.

Amen, brother! Let me ask these questions:

How many people out there are planning to buy Dazed and Confused, Equinox, Yi Yi, and/or Koko: A Talking Gorilla?

Note: on all above-mentioned films except Koko the SRP is $39.95. Now, (while no one pays the SRP, if they're smart), how many people still think this is too high?

[Gregory]

Most people here just talk about Criterions in terms of what's worth buying. As it's impossible to please everyone, Criterion is providing a good service by making titles available even if one doesn't jump at the chance to pre-order them. Renting or otherwise borrowing DVDs is often the best way to go, and it's a way to give a film you have doubts about a chance. Also, seeing something again (especially when one can access a new edition of it with special features, commentary, etc., not to mention seek out essays by good film critics from other sources) can sometimes change one's mind about it. A total unwillingness to do this seem to me a sure sign of closed-mindedness.
edited: I had typed "does" instead of "doesn't." Arg.

[Antoine Doinel]

I think the $39.95 SRP argument is flawed simply by the fact that absolutely no one on this board - unless they are incredibly stupid - will be paying $39.95 for this disc.

We all know why Criterion is priced higher and as it's been mentioned previously, there is a very good chance that we haven't seen the final word on extras for this title yet.

[Tribe]

How many people out there are planning to buy Dazed and Confused, Equinox, Yi Yi, and/or Koko: A Talking Gorilla?

I'm gonna buy 'em.

[Musashi219]

How many people out there are planning to buy Dazed and Confused, Equinox, Yi Yi, and/or Koko: A Talking Gorilla?

I know for sure I'm at least getting Yi Yi. Equinox and Koko I'll probably Netflix. Dazed and Confused I have no interest in.

[Antoine Doinel]

How many people out there are planning to buy Dazed and Confused, Equinox, Yi Yi, and/or Koko: A Talking Gorilla?

I will be buying Dazed & Confused and Yi Yi.

[Gregory]

I think the $39.95 SRP argument is flawed simply by the fact that absolutely no one on this board - unless they are incredibly stupid - will be paying $39.95 for this disc.

People in other countries (including those within Region 1) normally have to pay close to SRP to get Criterion DVDs. You seem to be taking for granted the high discounts enjoyed by customers within the U.S. Besides, pzman84 already acknowledged this exact same point in his previous post.
However, I don't mean to defend pzman84. What kind of reliable information is this crude poll supposed to generate?
And, again, I think it's worth considering that buying DVDs of films we love is not the only thing relevant to what Criterion is doing, as I discussed several posts up.

[pzman84]

I am just trying to get a feel for how popular those titles are. If people will actually buy them, my bitching and whining is in vain. If people don't buy them, then I don't have to worry because, if Criterion is to stay in business, they will stop releasing these kinds of titles. That is capitalism for ya. The end result is to reduce down my whining and bitching. You want to complain about that?

[porquenegar]

Let me ask these questions:

How many people out there are planning to buy Dazed and Confused, Equinox, Yi Yi, and/or Koko: A Talking Gorilla?

Most everything I buy nowadays is a blind buy so the fact that I haven't seen any of these isn't really a consideration for me. I have a decent DVD budget, and I try to spread my purchases around, sampling contemporary, classic, genre with even a bit of blockbuster thrown in. I find it hard to figure out what to buy each month without reading reviews by a few critics that I like. I also value the opinions of some members of this and other forums I frequent.

I'll probably buy Yi Yi based on several personal factors;

1) I am interested in finding out more about contemporary directors and add more contemporary movies into my collections of films. I've been going kind of crazy lately on classic and noir titles.

2) The premise is interesting to me.

3) Some of my favorite critics and forum members recommend it

4) The impassioned post by Dear Catastrophe Totoro in this very thread.

I'll pretty much watch anything, but I don't have the budget to blind buy the others, which don't appear to merit an immediate purchase based on my personal screening factors so I'll probably just rent them. There are so many other films that I am interested in viewing which can be had more cheaply, like most of Second Run's titles, which I need to start sampling.

[Gregory]

If people don't buy them, then I don't have to worry because, if Criterion is to stay in business, they will stop releasing these kinds of titles.

But these are exactly the same kinds of films Criterion has always released, and that's not likely to change. The only significant change, as far as I can tell, in the titles they release occurred with the shift from LD to DVD, which made it a bit harder to get the rights to big Hollywood classics and other widely-known titles. And as I speculated earlier the reason people are scrutinizing each title more lately is because their output has slowed down.

As for which I'm buying -- Yi Yi and Dazed and Confused for sure. Koko and Equinox I'll probably rent at first and then buy them if they really strike my fancy. I haven't decided about Kicking and Screaming -- it might depend on the extras on offer.

[kekid]

Just for the record, Porquenegar quotes me in his post above, however the words quoted are not mine. I am sure this is just a cut-and-paste error. However, I want to make sure that readers do not attribute the quotation to me.

[stroszeck]

KOKO: uh...Hell no?
Dazed & Confused: NO. Already got the great transfer w/extras I need for under $6.
YIYI: MAYBE. I'll have to rent this one again and watch the new transfer.
EQUINOX: I will not dignify this with an answer.

[Antoine Doinel]

Again, the "voting with your pocketbook" argument is a flawed one. I generally buy the Criterion - and basically all my DVDs - based on the ones I know I will be able to watch mulitple times. They are generally movies I have already seen. I don't yet have the kind of income that allows me to purchase any DVDs - Criterion or not - that I only have an interest in or know nothing about. I would love to own Mr. Arkadin or Elevator To The Gallows but right now they're just not in the budget. Am I sending Criterion "a message" by not buying these? I hope not.

As for Koko people seem to be forgetting it will probably sell very well to schools and universities.

[kekid]

That actually illustrates very well how voting with our pocketbook works. We do not have infinite resources, nor infinite time, to explore everything. Hence when Criterion issues a set of titles we do not recognize, our decision to try them out any way is influenced by the rest of the environment. Will I decide to buy some of these titles when I have the choice of selecting others from MoC, Second Run, m2k, Warner and others. I for one alway like to experiment to some extent, but it is a question of degree. Finally, Gregory makes a point that "buying" is not the right criterion to use for evaluating Criterion's choices. I respect that view to the extent that "buying" should not be the only criterion in looking at this situation. However, it is an important criterion in that if ignored for long a company goes out of business.

[Antoine Doinel]

I'm not choosing or not choosing to purchase Criterion titles based on whether I "recognize" them or not. However, the titles I buy are based solely on what my budget can afford. I have no illusions that I am not Criterion's prime demographic. By nature of their pricing and selection, Criterion skews to a North American (yep), educated (yes) and affluent (nope) audience. As long as that the affluent, educated Criterion afficionados continue to purchase the majority of their titles, if I do or don't will hardly have an affect on their bottom line. So perhaps, my inclusion in this argument is moot. However, offering more contemporary/foreign language titles into their line allows expands interest in their titles, at least temporarily, to people outside of their usual demographic (much to the chagrin of some people on this board I think) which in turn, gives them the financial freedom to pursue more obscure releases.

Buying DVDs - Criterion or otherwise - is an edeavor I'm careful and choosy about. However, by not purchasing Mr. Arkadin it speaks more about what I can currently afford to own as to the quality and selection of Criterion releases.

Part of the beauty of Criterion is introducing me to titles I had no knowledge or knew nothing about. So the titles I may not be purchasing I may very well be renting in the near future. I take very seriously their "film school in a box" approach. As many of you are already learned film scholars (I'm not being facetious) I think this point is often missed. Say for example, the films of Louis Malle - I am not at all familiar with his work, but when I'm ready to explore it there is no doubt I will start with Criterion releases and work my way out from there.

Anyway, I think the idea of worrying that Criterion will go out of business - based on the fact that someone takes the "this doesn't belong in the Criterion Collection" idea extrapolated into "no one will buy this/these titles and it will threaten Criterion's existence" is frankly ridiculous.

[ben d banana]

I do disagree to an extent (they are a company selling products), but it's also kind of funny that all of these people who feel that Criterion are selling out (or something) by releasing Dazed & Confused would prefer that the company, instead of following its own "heart", just put out these individuals' personal want lists, which of course would sell much much better and everyone can clearly agree are great. Materials, availability, quality, cost, etc be damned, along with the company and its employees' interests. Why can't Criterion see how perfect and easy it would be?

And for those who are obsessed with the part of Criterion's mission statement that reads "The foundation of the collection is the work of such masters of cinema as...", please let me remind you of the most fitting definition of the key word in said sentence: "an underlying basis or principle for something : specific learning skills as a foundation for other subjects."