594, 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

[colinr0380]

I think it's funny that releases like the Godzilla set are assumed to be Criterion just doing what they have to do to pay the bills, as if the films occupy such a low place in culture that they have to be rationalized somehow.

I agree, and the best thing that Criterion does is release a range of material. As much as I joke about Armageddon (mostly because When Worlds Collide would be a better disaster movie [-( ), I kind of love The Rock as the epitome of the mid 90s Bruckheimer-Bay blockbuster, and both deserve their place in the collection. If the quality of some of the Godzilla films may be questionable, we have seen a number of Criterion sets where 'lesser' films have been bundled in because they are contextually important more than particularly significant as an individual work (some of the films in the Paul Robeson set, arguably a couple of the films in the Bergman set too), and sometimes that overall picture is just as important to be able to create. And if that might be the only way to release a couple of the films (how else would Sanders of the River ever have received a release otherwise?) then I'm all for that practice. I don't think that you can discuss Godzilla without tracing the mutation of the character from city destroying nuclear mutated monster; through Earth based monster vaguely on our side battling other monsters often from outer space; to being a slightly aloof and distant father figure to his son(!); and so on. The films might be 'low culture' and 'children's films' but that should not prevent them from being properly celebrated for their impact on culture. The various films have also encompassed a number of interesting subjects and, like Bond say, looking beyond the particular plots you can trace cultural shifts through the approaches that different films take to their material, such as the environmental one with our hero(?) battling a monster created by industrial pollution in Godzilla vs Hedora.

That does make a set like this more important to get right too, because whilst the original film has already been rightly celebrated with a standalone release this might be the only release of the rest of the films so different versions, dubbed and subtitled tracks (because audiences in the West now have history with both types) and any extras produced have the potential to be the final word (or at least the touchstone for future discussion of the series) for some time.

(Plus now we can finally put the Beastie Boy's Intergalactic video, previously released by Criterion, into its proper context )

[tenia]

Isn't that just a certain auteur theory ? Godzilla has become a part of modern pop culture, but it doesn't make most of these films very good, or even worthy of a museifed place like the Criterion Collection.
Same goes for Bay : for all it's worthy as an epitome of what was your typical Bruckheimer-Bay blockbuster in the 90s, this is very much non-intrinsequial to the movies themselves, and thus in a way not making them any better than what they truly are. No matter how epitomial they are, Armageddon would still be a 4 out of 10 in my book (and The Rock probably a 5, or maybe a 6 in a good day, but not more).
I understand the need for taking context into account with what Criterion is doing as a whole, and also understand how in a way, we shouldn't put too many walls and fall into the usual tropes of low-art vs high-art, but in the other way, we could then push the logic far enough to defend Uwe Boll or Marvel movies being boxed in the collection. But to me, mediocre movies remain mediocre movies, no matter how much context you pour into their rediscovery decades later.

If people are happy with buying that though, of course, go ahead. I'm not at all amongst those blaming a label for releasing something I don't care about (in the present case, I'm happy to save tons of money since I'm not interested in a Godzilla set). But I feel like some might be over-analysing the true content of these movies to make them better than what they really are. Take the Paul Robeson set : sure, who else than Criterion is going to release that ? But then : is there enough good cinematographic content to justify the 10 hours and $45 they're asking for ?


On a different note, I'm unsure such a Godzilla set would be a cash cow. Godzilla is popular in pop-culture, but I doubt there are so many people that'd buy a boxset with those movies, especially at the likely premium price Criterion is going to ask. These remains older Japanese-subtitled Kaiju movies, which isn't, IMO, something very "general audience friendly". I'd actually would have understood the argument better if talking about the Emmerich one.

[domino harvey]

Shouldn’t the title of this thread really be Godzilla vs. Megaset?

[FrauBlucher]

Oh I don't know about that, Tenia, I think there are plenty of boomers and Gen Xers that grew up with those films and those are the folks that still collect discs. Especially, with it being released in Oct or Nov (we'll know more later) with the gift giving season right around the corner from that

[Big Ben]

Oh I don't know about that, Tenia, I think there are plenty of boomers and Gen Xers that grew up with those films and those are the folks that still collect discs. Especially, with it being released in Oct or Nov (we'll know more later) with the gift giving season right around the corner from that

I was born in 1991 and my first exposure to these films was on TNT's Monstervision during the mid nineties. I still have Godzilla films recorded on VHS from that time!

[tenia]

Oh I don't know about that, Tenia, I think there are plenty of boomers and Gen Xers that grew up with those films and those are the folks that still collect discs. Especially, with it being released in Oct or Nov (we'll know more later) with the gift giving season right around the corner from that

I'm not sure myself and this is obviously just my own view / hunch, but I'm not sure if these potential buyers, who're only potentials and might not be buying tons of stuff anymore, are enough to think this is a way for Criterion to make easy money. This is no Ben Button or The Rock (or even a Hitchcock movie), very clearly, but I don't think it's even a high-potential arthouse release. Moreover, despite the season, it'll still be a boxset, ie something with a big price tag (even if it's OK once calculated on a per movie basis, it's not the same feeling to hand out $100 on 1 boxset than buying cheaper multiple releases).
It will probably sell more than The Cloud-Capped Star or The Inland Sea though, but I'd suppose if one wanted to point at a cash cow Criterion release, Blue Velvet or Do The Right Thing are much better shots.

[FrauBlucher]

Sorry Ben, to leave off Millennials. But yeah these films had constant rotation on various cable channels that exposed many to these films. I can't imagine this set not being a money maker for the company

When I was a kid in the 70's, the neighborhood theater would do Saturday matinees for the various Godzilla movies. Usually 2 or 3 starting in the late morning. It was fun to see them on the big screen.

[domino harvey]

tenia, this may be a cultural thing-- these films are very visible known properties for American audiences. I'd wager just about everyone knows the basics of a Godzilla movie even if they've never seen one, and it's not hard to imagine (well-off) looky-loos picking up a complete or near-complete set on brand recognition alone

[tenia]

Oh ok then. It's very well know in Europe too, including France, but it remains an odd curiosity, usually associated with B-movies. I don't think the status of the original movie is different than elsewhere (ie quite well considered), but I don't think the sequels are considered this way at all. No way in any case those would be an easy project to fund with the expectations to see boxsets almost flying off the shelves.

[Feego]

I don't think the status of the original movie is different than elsewhere (ie quite well considered), but I don't think the sequels are considered this way at all. No way in any case those would be an easy project to fund with the expectations to see boxsets almost flying off the shelves.

On the contrary, in the U.S. when most people think of "Godzilla," they primarily think of the sequels, to the point that the seriousness of the original is forgotten altogether and it's just lumped in with the nostalgic goofiness of the rest. It's actually the cheesiness of those films that has kept "Godzilla" alive and a popular commodity for generations here (and I'm saying this as someone who only saw the original after Criterion released it and has never watched any of the others). You seem to be under the impression that the "B-movie" quality is going to keep people from buying, but that's exactly why people like them. No, I don't think this is going to necessarily fly off the shelves the way that, say, a complete set of the Star Wars films in their original unaltered versions would, but people really do love this stuff.

[movielocke]

Isn't that just a certain auteur theory ? Godzilla has become a part of modern pop culture, but it doesn't make most of these films very good, or even worthy of a museifed place like the Criterion Collection.
Same goes for Bay : for all it's worthy as an epitome of what was your typical Bruckheimer-Bay blockbuster in the 90s, this is very much non-intrinsequial to the movies themselves, and thus in a way not making them any better than what they truly are. No matter how epitomial they are, Armageddon would still be a 4 out of 10 in my book (and The Rock probably a 5, or maybe a 6 in a good day, but not more).

Except criterion puts out lots of movies from many different contexts, but viewed from my context are quite bad, this year alone I've seen Stranger than Paradise, Death in Venice, Solo Con tu Pareja, and Kicking and Screaming that I'd rate all of them as fours.

But I also recognize that these are significant films in their own contexts, highly valued and considered by other people, they're just ones I didn't like; and the year before I saw Mothra vs Godzilla, which I gave the same ranking, a 4.

So to me, whether or not I think the godzilla films are bad, there are plenty of films equally bad (from my perspective) in the collection. And hey, at least they're ALL better than Border Radio!

Which is why this whole argument about "quality" is just a facade for "why wont' they release only what _I_ like"

[knives]

TBH, this is the first Criterion I will be buying in years.

[Yaanu]

Personally I don't mind a Godzilla box set, but I'd rather that it be treated as a standalone release like the Bergman box set or AK100 box set or the Essential Art House: 50 Years of Janus Films box set, rather than a full spine release.

Imagine: the world is melting and you care about this.

Plot twist: I stopped the world to melt with you.

[LucariosJohnson]

Think the general hand-wringing about these not belonging in the "Collection" is a bit silly. As others have pointed out, the movies have some qualities (Tohoscope is gorgeous, detailed miniature effects), and deserve a restoration for a cultural perspective. I also think the idea that Ishiro Honda just stopped putting effort into these movies after the original is mostly garbage. 2001 cribs a lot of imagery from Monster Zero from what I remember. The hated Godzilla's Revege is a proto-version of Oshima's Boy and Kurosawa's Dodeskaden.

[PillowRock]

These remains older Japanese-subtitled Kaiju movies, which isn't, IMO, something very "general audience friendly".

The reason that I think that the latter part is incorrect is that the first part is incorrect (I would assume). I can't imagine an American release of Godzilla movies that did not include the option of the English dubs that everybody in the US grew up watching on TV (and, in the case of the original Gojira, the re-edit with Raymond Burr playing the reporter who provides an American point of view character). The reason that a Godzilla box figures to be a cash cow is precisely the fact that it figures to sell a lot of copies to people who never would watch any subtitled Japanese language movie (including these).

[PillowRock]

On the contrary, in the U.S. when most people think of "Godzilla," they primarily think of the sequels, to the point that the seriousness of the original is forgotten altogether and it's just lumped in with the nostalgic goofiness of the rest.

Actually, I think that most Americans do remember the original as well as any of them. It's just that to most Americans, "the original" is Godzilla, King of the Monsters! starring Raymond Burr.

[tenia]

Which is why this whole argument about "quality" is just a facade for "why wont' they release only what _I_ like"

I understand this, which is why I specified that this isn't what I'm aiming for is, because I don't care when stuff I'm not interested in gets released (I just don't buy it and that's it). However, the original point was about discussing how these sequels are worthy of a spot in the Criterion Collection because of their cultural impact, the same way the Bay-Bruckheimer movies would, and that's what I discussed, because colin's arguments seemed to me like another way of having some kind of auteur's theory.

However, you're right to remind that movies like Death in Venice would certainly not be discussed as not being worthy of a spot in the collection, despite being generally considered as not very good. So why questioning one and not the other, indeed. This being written, I certainly wouldn't use the odd obvious bad choice like Border Radio or Tiny Furniture to defend it !


In any case, thanks all for the additionnal contextual elements. There seems to be quite a different approach to these movies in the US vs in France (at least).

[domino harvey]

Unlike in France, these are among the few films Americans will tolerate in a dub (and indeed quite a bit of the cultural cachet is owed to the cliched dubbing aspects)

[tenia]

Well, true enough (and I didn't think about it before), English dub will be OK for you while in France, obviously, it'll still be foreign language for us. But I try to remember, and I'm not even sure the sequels were dubbed in French at all so we wouldn't even have that. The 1954 one wasn't entirely (I guess the French theatrical run was using a cut version), and while we got tons of Gamera DVD releases, I can't even find French DVDs for the Godzilla sequels, so here you go. The 54 version BD release, however, included the recut edit (with Burr), but this barely registered a blimp in France.

[Godzamera]

Someone named Caroline Heffernan, in the comments of a Daisuke Beppu video mentioning the "rumored" box-set, said this 2 days ago:

"the Godzilla boxed set is titled Godzilla: the Showa Era Films, 1954-1975. And-I do know the spine number. Can you guess? Yes indeed folks-it's spine 1 E+3. No release date, but we've started working on it."

"So far, the details are it's to be a hard cover, 35.6 cm X 26.4 cm, 32 page booklet with DVDs. A nice matte laminate cover, 40,000 ordered for first edition! I can't seem to upload a photo, but the cover art is beautiful."

I wonder what they'll do with Rodan and War of the Gargantuas. Maybe they'll make a separate box-set for the non-Godzilla movies.

[domino harvey]

Because I’m not swo, I had to Google what “1 E + 3” meant, it’s 1X(10^3), or 1000

[dda1996a]

Well that is anti climactic

[HitchcockLang]

Does that title mean we should expect the set to include King Kong vs Godzilla? Godzilla fans on their own forums had resigned themselves to seeing that as an impossibility. But if Criterion was able to work as the middleman between Toho and Universal to include both the Japanese and American cut (which Universal owns in perpetuity and is a distinct edit, not just a dub), that would be huge. To my knowledge, the original Japanese cut has never been released legally on any kind of physical media ever in the US.

[Godzamera]

FYE is releasing an exclusive Steelbook of King Kong vs Godzilla later this year. I would assume it's the same old Blu-ray in there, which is the American release. Maybe Criterion gets the Japanese cut. That's just my speculation, though.

[HitchcockLang]

I was under the impression that Universal still has to sign off on even a release of the Japanese cut in North America.