Woody Allen

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domino harvey
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Re: Woody Allen

#701 Post by domino harvey » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:13 pm

Looks like the same price to me, unless Amazon raised their price

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Woody Allen

#702 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:38 pm

It’s the exact same price but I canceled my amazon order and purchased through B&N since it’s still listed as “temporarily unavailable” for my purchase rather than the original release date they set for April 7.

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AWA
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Re: Woody Allen

#703 Post by AWA » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:13 am

Woody's autobiography has been rumoured for some time, and Arcade stepped up to the plate and released it. Within one day it got into Amazon's Top 50 books overall and topped most of the sub-categories it is in. Shows that the Twitter Moral Crusaders Mob is loud, but by no means the majority.

Anyways - while still in the process of reading the eBook (hardcover on order from my local bookshop), I have to say going into this I wasn't expecting too much as Woody's interviews are auto-pilot to the max and he has his talking points that he repeats and rarely ever says anything "new". Even in Weide's documentary, he didn't really have too much "new" to say about, well, anything. So while I figured this might be amusing, I wasn't expecting much from it.

Needless to say, it is already pretty surprising just how candid he is with everything. A lot of details, some of which I have never read in any bio before, and you can clearly see what parts of his youth ended up fictionalized in his films (Harvey the manager who fucked him over - Anything Else for one). Despite it being an autobiography, it reads like one of his humour pieces in the New Yorker and is very fluid, very funny and an absolute joy to read.

While I haven't finished everything yet, I'm also glad to see he finally laid some heavy artillery out for the Mia / Dylan / Ronan stuff, and about bloody well time too. If you're not convinced of his total innocence regarding that allegation after reading this, then you just don't give a toss about logic or facts and only adhering to a pre-determined agenda. The French publisher addressed concerns from their younger and all-female editing staff about the book by having them read it first - they all came back afterwards and unanimously approved that the book should be published, all of their concerns addressed. The extent of Ronan's sociopathy is laid bare here, raised and trained by a professional sociopath, his mother.

Anyways, aside from addressing and shining a much brighter light on that period and subsequent repeated allegation, there is a lot here to learn about his career as well as his peculiar taste in films, literature, music and philosophy. All done in his usual hilarious self deprecating style. A surprisingly good and informative read. Looking forward to getting this on paper though, I dislike reading a proper book on my laptop.

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Lemmy Caution
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Re: Woody Allen

#704 Post by Lemmy Caution » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:49 am

Sure sounds like you came to the book neutral and with an open mind on those sordid allegations...

I'm sort of surprised anyone wants to voluntarily wade in and grapple with that tabloid aspect of his life again. But Woody Allen has always been a talented writer and won't be around too much longer. Not terribly surprised that Allen's polished, practiced and fuller defense can be persuasive, especially to people who admire his art and tone. I'd be interested in reading his book minus those parts.

ford
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Re: Woody Allen

#705 Post by ford » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:04 am

Lemmy Caution wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:49 am
Sure sounds like you came to the book neutral and with an open mind on those sordid allegations...
The key facts have been out there for nearly 30 years now as have the results of two state investigations— both of which cleared Allen and one of which stated that Farrow likely coached her daughter. Why should he be neutral?

The Farrows keep acting like this whole thing “never had its day in court.” That’s absurd. The accusation was tirelessly investigated through official channels and found to be totally without merit.

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Lemmy Caution
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Re: Woody Allen

#706 Post by Lemmy Caution » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:21 am

The strenuous adverbs are the giveaway.

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MichaelB
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Re: Woody Allen

#707 Post by MichaelB » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:46 am

I wasn't there and neither were you. And you've just spelled out that your mind has been made up to the extent that you won't even listen to Allen's side of the story. "LA LA LA CAN'T HEAR YOU" may be cathartically satisfying to a limited extent, but it's not really a basis for sensible discussion.

beamish14
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Re: Woody Allen

#708 Post by beamish14 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:28 am

ford wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:04 am
Lemmy Caution wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:49 am
Sure sounds like you came to the book neutral and with an open mind on those sordid allegations...
The key facts have been out there for nearly 30 years now as have the results of two state investigations— both of which cleared Allen and one of which stated that Farrow likely coached her daughter. Why should he be neutral?

The Farrows keep acting like this whole thing “never had its day in court.” That’s absurd. The accusation was tirelessly investigated through official channels and found to be totally without merit.

EXACTLY. DCFS is out for blood in cases like this. It never went to court because Farrow knew damn well that the facts simply didn't align
with what she was saying, that there was no forensic evidence, and it subsequently would have fallen apart immediately. Frankly, what she's done over the years is outright sociopathic, and it's also incredibly telling that her account of what transpired has changed repeatedly from the initial accusation to her memoir that was released several years later and what she says know.

I'm glad Allen has finally stood up to them.

Nasir007
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Re: Woody Allen

#709 Post by Nasir007 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:43 pm

Interesting quote - "All the three leads in ‘Rainy Day’ were excellent and a pleasure to work with. Timothée afterward publicly stated he regretted working with me and was giving the money to charity, but he swore to my sister he needed to do that as he was up for an Oscar for ‘Call Me by Your Name,’ and he and his agent felt he had a better chance of winning if he denounced me, so he did."

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Lemmy Caution
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Re: Woody Allen

#710 Post by Lemmy Caution » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:00 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:46 am
I wasn't there and neither were you. And you've just spelled out that your mind has been made up to the extent that you won't even listen to Allen's side of the story.
You're misreading if you refer to me. I was just rubbed the wrong way by the certitude of the two other posters who did strongly take a side and probably weren't there either.

I've made my position clear earlier in this thread. Most likely both sides firmly believe their story and are convinced an injustice was done to them. Both sides have presented their case ad infinitum. I'm not terribly interested in what did or didn't happen. And assume it's unknowable at this point. Statutes of limitations exist in criminal cases for a reason.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Woody Allen

#711 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:41 pm

AWA wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:13 am
Needless to say, it is already pretty surprising just how candid he is with everything. A lot of details, some of which I have never read in any bio before, and you can clearly see what parts of his youth ended up fictionalized in his films (Harvey the manager who fucked him over - Anything Else for one).
Glad to see that Anything Else was based on his experience, considering I’ve always felt it to be one of his most honest and realistic accounts of a certain kind of relationship dynamic. I realize I’m probably alone here in assessment of its merits (with Tarantino I guess) but validated nonetheless. Very much looking forward to getting my hands on this, thanks for the passionate writeup.

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hearthesilence
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Re: Woody Allen

#712 Post by hearthesilence » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:42 pm

Lemmy Caution wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:00 pm
You're misreading if you refer to me. I was just rubbed the wrong way by the certitude of the two other posters who did strongly take a side and probably weren't there either.

I've made my position clear earlier in this thread. Most likely both sides firmly believe their story and are convinced an injustice was done to them. Both sides have presented their case ad infinitum. I'm not terribly interested in what did or didn't happen. And assume it's unknowable at this point. Statutes of limitations exist in criminal cases for a reason.
This has been pretty much my take as well, though it's just horrendously sad all around. One party is obviously incorrect, but it's possible or probable that both Woody Allen and Dylan truly believe what they're saying (i.e. neither is outright lying) and Dylan is severely traumatized whether that's a result of manipulation or molestation. I can't share the certitude of people who weren't there.

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AWA
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Re: Woody Allen

#713 Post by AWA » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:56 pm

Lemmy Caution wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:49 am
Sure sounds like you came to the book neutral and with an open mind on those sordid allegations...

I'm sort of surprised anyone wants to voluntarily wade in and grapple with that tabloid aspect of his life again. But Woody Allen has always been a talented writer and won't be around too much longer. Not terribly surprised that Allen's polished, practiced and fuller defense can be persuasive, especially to people who admire his art and tone. I'd be interested in reading his book minus those parts.
Having read every public document, published account available on it, I can't find a single reason to believe Dylan's inconsistent story about a single 15 minute period has any validity at all. I was / am a huge fan of Bill Cosby - I had his tapes and records as a kid, watched his show when I was little, etc. Long before I was ever a fan of Woody's. Cosby is guilty though, I have no doubt about that either having read many accounts of his repeated behaviour. Still made some funny jokes though.

There is new information in Woody's book. Including the revelation that, during the investigation into the allegation in the custody trial (a custody trial which, it should be noted, Woody started, knowing full well he would lose since the kids never lived with him), Woody asked her to recount the story - which ended with Dylan running to her step-sister Lark immediately afterwards and hugged her, crying. Woody asked her to repeat that about Lark and why she would do that. Mia did. However, Lark was in NYC at that time and nowhere near the Connecticut home. Mia immediately revised her story to say Dylan had run and hugged Lark "in spirit".

As pointed out, the allegation has been investigated multiple times (actually 4 times total - most people note twice but he had to have the allegation re-reviewed twice while adopting Bechet and Manzie per NY State law, and twice before). All came to the same conclusion. The details of Dylan's story have changed through the years. If anyone has any reason for me to doubt Woody's account, I'd love to read it and I'd treat him the same as I think of my earlier comic favourite in Cosby. Having read all there is to possibly read about it, it is quite clear Mia is a sociopath hellbent on revenge and Dylan has never had a glimmer of a chance to get out from underneath her mother's dangerous manipulation or addressed the trauma from that period in her life that her mother willfully and purposely exposed her to.

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Re: Woody Allen

#714 Post by AWA » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:04 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:41 pm
AWA wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:13 am
Needless to say, it is already pretty surprising just how candid he is with everything. A lot of details, some of which I have never read in any bio before, and you can clearly see what parts of his youth ended up fictionalized in his films (Harvey the manager who fucked him over - Anything Else for one).
Glad to see that Anything Else was based on his experience, considering I’ve always felt it to be one of his most honest and realistic accounts of a certain kind of relationship dynamic. I realize I’m probably alone here in assessment of its merits (with Tarantino I guess) but validated nonetheless. Very much looking forward to getting my hands on this, thanks for the passionate writeup.
Reading the early years of his youth and development of his career, one can clearly pick out situations and experiences that he has fictionalized and dramatized without ever pointing out the films they showed up in. Getting up the courage to have an affair with Louise Lasser while his first marriage was coming to an end (Lasser would become his second wife) definitely has informed a lot of his films in different ways. His recounting of how he finally made his move with Louise reads like a script summary of one his films.

That short story segment with Toby McGuire in Deconstructing Harry about marrying too young and then realizing he shouldn't have gotten married and instead pours himself into his writing on his typewriter at home is quite literally Woody's own story.

Anything Else's Harvey character is obviously based on the manager of the same name and seemingly closely resembling his personality as well.

Woody recounting how Danny Simon taught him to write comedy (and how to "be" a working writer in general) is something else that shows up in numerous films and can clearly be seen in Woody's approach. A lot of people really didn't like Danny Simon, Woody has nothing but great things to say about him.

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Re: Woody Allen

#715 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:17 pm

“Sociopath” is a strong word, and a leap of a diagnosis. The mind is a powerful thing which allows us to bend the truth slowly transforming them into lies at a pace that without the emotional regulation skills can cause one to believe that morphed information as truth in a newly cemented perspective. I wasn’t there either, but I tend to side with you, AWA, though hearthesilence is right on the money that it’s a case of deep-rooted perspectives clashing and feeding on their own evidence causing destruction a lot of which is self-inflicting. If Mia did coach the kids as I believe she probably did to at least some degree, regardless of the truth, the jury is out on if this was consciously maniacal or subconsciously driven by defense mechanisms. Either way, harm has been caused, but it’s important not to jump to conclusions on Mia’s degree of consciousness and diagnosis just like we shouldn’t toward Allen. Semantics, maybe, but worth saying. I appreciate your comparison to Cosby in divorcing this argument from the classic ‘separate the art from the artist’ one to a conversation about what is known and what is not, reasonable doubt and narrative alterations that disrupt the ability to impulsively try him on the sheer volume of the accusation(s). I believe Allen and I’ll leave it at that.

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Re: Woody Allen

#716 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:19 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:13 pm
Looks like the same price to me, unless Amazon raised their price
Ah, it was $21 when I ordered. I'm getting an estimated arrival of April 3rd at the moment and the other item in the order shipped separately

beamish14
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Re: Woody Allen

#717 Post by beamish14 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:50 pm

Nasir007 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:43 pm
Interesting quote - "All the three leads in ‘Rainy Day’ were excellent and a pleasure to work with. Timothée afterward publicly stated he regretted working with me and was giving the money to charity, but he swore to my sister he needed to do that as he was up for an Oscar for ‘Call Me by Your Name,’ and he and his agent felt he had a better chance of winning if he denounced me, so he did."

Woody in scorched earth mode is pretty awesome. Fuck Chalamet and Mira Sorvino for throwing him under the bus. I guess it got
Sorvino her first major press since maybe The Replacement Killers about 20 years ago, but her career is still stalled.

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Re: Woody Allen

#718 Post by The Curious Sofa » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:07 am

Woody in scorched earth mode is pretty awesome. Fuck Chalamet and Mira Sorvino for throwing him under the bus. I guess it got
Sorvino her first major press since maybe The Replacement Killers about 20 years ago, but her career is still stalled.
The alleged reason for why Sorvino's career stalled was why she got press attention in recent times, her condemnation of Allen was only a side-effect of that.

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domino harvey
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Re: Woody Allen

#719 Post by domino harvey » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:28 pm

My delivery estimate from Amazon updated to later this week

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Woody Allen

#720 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:46 pm

Glad it's being recategorized to its rightful place as a prioritized safety item

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schellenbergk
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Re: Woody Allen

#721 Post by schellenbergk » Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:59 am

So has anyone finished reading this? I did yesterday and have some thoughts.

I'd like to just note that a good chunk of the book is about the Mia Farrow situation - and it's about what one would expect. Setting that aside. . .

* I was surprised by the sections on Louise Lasser - they were in spots quite tender
* I had no idea about Woody's first marriage to Harlene - (I thought my stepmother was the only woman in the world named Harlene!!)
* He was surprisingly generous about Mia Farrow's work in his middle period films
* The discussion of the films was surprisingly superficial
* He has a fairly low opinion of his own work
* This list of books he has not read and movies he has not seen added nothing. But really - he hasn't seen "The Circus"??

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hearthesilence
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Re: Woody Allen

#722 Post by hearthesilence » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:34 am

Not surprised about his low opinion, and it's probably why he doesn't like to analyze his own work. Years ago I saw him on some prime time news interview where he said doesn't "watch" his own films. (Presumably after he's done working on them, but that's how he phrased it.) He said he did this after seeing Manhattan, and he absolutely hated it.

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domino harvey
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Re: Woody Allen

#723 Post by domino harvey » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:52 am

Allen recorded an audiobook version available via Audible as well, which honestly sounds like the ideal way to experience this!

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Re: Woody Allen

#724 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:46 am

domino harvey wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:52 am
Allen recorded an audiobook version available via Audible as well, which honestly sounds like the ideal way to experience this!
It certainly is. I have done the first 2 hours (of 12) and if you like Radio Days or the Stand Up Years this - so far I haven't got to the Mia years - is for you.

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Re: Woody Allen

#725 Post by MichaelB » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:57 am

hearthesilence wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:34 am
Not surprised about his low opinion, and it's probably why he doesn't like to analyze his own work. Years ago I saw him on some prime time news interview where he said doesn't "watch" his own films. (Presumably after he's done working on them, but that's how he phrased it.) He said he did this after seeing Manhattan, and he absolutely hated it.
When I filleted Woody Allen on Woody Allen down to a contractually-mandated 2,000 words per chapter for the Arrow box sets, I couldn't help but notice that there seemed to be a strong (and, of course, unsurprising) correlation between films that he personally ranked very highly and those that he didn't. The chapter on Sleeper was so brief that we ended up running the whole thing, but the chapters on the "serious" films were substantially longer.

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