The Sci-Fi List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

[domino harvey]

And with that nth reminder that I should probably get to Fringe one of these days, I'm tempted to just blind-buy the series

The first season is pretty much just junk food and you’ll wonder why people are so fervent about it but once you start to realize what’s been going on the entire time (Which will start being revealed near the end of season one and onward into the rest of the series), the payoffs are immense. The show’s creative team really somehow planned out the entire enormous arc from the start (even with changes that came from normal TV adjustments, it all still fit) and as Adam Scott’s character says about the series on Parks and Rec, it all adds up completely on revisit. No dead ends, no disappointments, and they were somehow able to get renewed enough times to tell it all.

[therewillbeblus]

Sold

[knives]

Yeah I would've voted for Home, the infamous X-Files episode that's a standalone, for the horror list if I could have. Now that Star Trek is on my mind, I'm tempted to revisit my personal favorite of the movies, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock to see how it holds up.

And with that nth reminder that I should probably get to Fringe one of these days, I'm tempted to just blind-buy the series

Khan!!!!!!!!

Actually five might be my Trek of choice.

[therewillbeblus]

A Scanner Darkly has always been very creatively appealing but it's an intelligent film on a variety of levels. Conceptually the animated style with blurred moving lines on facial features and body outlines mimic the camouflage suits undercover agents wear to hide their identities, a diffusion of selfhood already occurring in the reality of Arctor's existence (and as we find out from a later twist involving one of these visual ideas, these barriers perpetuate the truth that nobody really knows anybody). The detached surrealism of continued drug usage becomes the normative lens through seeing the world. What really stuck out to me this rewatch is how Reeves' ennui from his safe nuclear family life serves as a sociological symptom contributing to the self-medication hypothesis of drug addiction. That line of thought, widely embraced in addition communities, assumes that people use or increase use of substances to escape from the unbearable dysphoria from everyday life, which is often why addiction co-occurs with other mental health issues about 80-90% of the time (this doesn't infer the source of an addiction, which has more complex roots including biological, but can exacerbate the issues or trigger its beginning).

Linklater's version of Dick's dystopia universalizes addiction to 20% and growing in the population because Americans are so disillusioned with their banal existences that everyone looks to self-medication. Even the most respectable people with the most protective factors are doomed when the country is flooding the streets with the drug, dictating our vulnerabilities when all bets are off to fight it. The drug is called Death, representing a finality people are chasing as is usually the case with drugs' elevations especially among addicts who realize on a daily basis how futile this fantasy is in practice. Reeves cannot help but to place himself in greater danger with full awareness, as the idea of a sustained state of contentment doesn't exist, so the chase must suffice. The conscious self-destructiveness that competes with self-preservation is another great picture of our internal psychological systems screaming out and battling for attention (the competing hemispheres of the brain emphasize this quite well). The identity-dissolve is expressed with lurking delusions, self-doubt, and paranoia, though this experience carries a kind of serenity to it in its activity that trumps the stagnant life that is the alternative.

This is essentially a fatalistic piece of noir, using science-fiction devices and recognizable sociopolitical systems to outline debilitating hopelessness, where the inability to see clearly is derived from realistic consequences of addiction as well as the confines of our disappointments from societal expectations. Beyond that social commentary, the engaging sci-fi ideas, involving narrative and colorful atmosphere, is a raw depiction of addiction that is told in a novel way. A worthy list-contender.

[Mr Sausage]

Yeah I would've voted for Home, the infamous X-Files episode that's a standalone, for the horror list if I could have. Now that Star Trek is on my mind, I'm tempted to revisit my personal favorite of the movies, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock to see how it holds up.

And with that nth reminder that I should probably get to Fringe one of these days, I'm tempted to just blind-buy the series

Khan!!!!!!!!

Actually five might be my Trek of choice.

I’m the only person I know who loves 1 best. For all its mishandling of its characters and drama, it attains a mood that no other Trek film and few science fiction films have managed: the sublime. And not the modern debased sense of it, but the original meaning: the awe and terror of confronting the immensity of the world as it bears down on you, uncaring in its grandiosity. When The Enterprise appears, it fills the screen, a giant ship that lords over everything else in the frame—and 30 minutes later it’s dwarfed by a being so immense it even exceeds the frame’s ability to contain it. The film refuses all attempts to take in V’ger as a whole. In V’ger, we sense the sheer size and unknowability of the universe. It’s all so much more than the mind can comprehend, just as V’ger is more than the eye can take in. In a series beloved for its large and commanding personalities, this movie made the misguided and beautiful decision to render its humans very small—specks in a vast and disinterested universe.

I’m not surprised Trek fans hated it. There’s no indication the filmmakers understood what made the tv series so beloved in the first place. But everything in it that Trek fans complain about—the slowness, the coldness, the emphasis on mood and ideas over plot and character—is exactly why it’s so great. There are plenty of Trek films offering the warmth, drama, and action fans crave. There is no other Star Trek offering what Trek 1 offers. It’s singular and it’s the best.

[knives]

I do imagine that it would be the best to see on the big screen for those and a few other reasons.

[Mr Sausage]

I do imagine that it would be the best to see on the big screen for those and a few other reasons.

I’m guessing tv and vhs did the film’s reputation no favours over the years.

[senseabove]

I’m the only person I know who loves 1 best. For all its mishandling of its characters and drama, it attains a mood that no other Trek film and few science fiction films have managed: the sublime. And not the modern debased sense of it, but the original meaning: the awe and terror of confronting the immensity of the world as it bears down on you, uncaring in its grandiosity. When The Enterprise appears, it fills the screen, a giant ship that lords over everything else in the frame—and 30 minutes later it’s dwarfed by a being so immense it even exceeds the frame’s ability to contain it. The film refuses all attempts to take in V’ger as a whole. In V’ger, we sense the sheer size and unknowability of the universe. It’s all so much more than the mind can comprehend, just as V’ger is more than the eye can take in. In a series beloved for its large and commanding personalities, this movie made the misguided and beautiful decision to render its humans very small—specks in a vast and disinterested universe.

I’m not surprised Trek fans hated it. There’s no indication the filmmakers understood what made the tv series so beloved in the first place. But everything in it that Trek fans complain about—the slowness, the coldness, the emphasis on mood and ideas over plot and character—is exactly why it’s so great. There are plenty of Trek films offering the warmth, drama, and action fans crave. There is no other Star Trek offering what Trek 1 offers. It’s singular and it’s the best.

I let a good friend of mine who's a Trekkie hijack my projector and living room for a long-term Trek-athon a while back with the intent of making it through all of the movies, even the recent ones. Best laid plans and all. We only made it through 5 before the desire to wrangle everyone's schedules waned, but the first stayed my favorite, and you summarize why. Wise was making a sci-fi movie with Star Trek trappings, and as someone who has no personal investment in Star Trek, I liked it as such. I could certainly see it making my list, because I'm finding that there are a whole lot of Sci-Fi movies I appreciate or admire but don't particularly like or feel any warmth toward, and my rule for lists so far has been to leave those kinda of movies off them.

[therewillbeblus]

I would hope that liking a film would be a personal rule for everyone making personalized lists!

I didn’t enjoy the first film at all when I saw it on VHS as a kid, but Sausage you’re descriptions of the effect it had on you is exactly what I’m looking for, so I guess I’ll be doing revisits of the first round of movies to see how they hold up so many years/decades later

[Rayon Vert]

For all its mishandling of its characters and drama, it attains a mood that no other Trek film and few science fiction films have managed: the sublime. And not the modern debased sense of it, but the original meaning: the awe and terror of confronting the immensity of the world as it bears down on you, uncaring in its grandiosity. When The Enterprise appears, it fills the screen, a giant ship that lords over everything else in the frame—and 30 minutes later it’s dwarfed by a being so immense it even exceeds the frame’s ability to contain it. The film refuses all attempts to take in V’ger as a whole. In V’ger, we sense the sheer size and unknowability of the universe. It’s all so much more than the mind can comprehend, just as V’ger is more than the eye can take in. In a series beloved for its large and commanding personalities, this movie made the misguided and beautiful decision to render its humans very small—specks in a vast and disinterested universe.

I’m not surprised Trek fans hated it. There’s no indication the filmmakers understood what made the tv series so beloved in the first place. But everything in it that Trek fans complain about—the slowness, the coldness, the emphasis on mood and ideas over plot and character—is exactly why it’s so great.

Obviously not a Trekkie because I've never seen any of the films (wait a sec I think I saw one of the more recent reboots) but this description is definitely making me want to see this film.

[knives]

About five years ago I went through all the TOS movies and they all proved impressive in different ways emphasizing different possibilities of the series in exciting ways. It’s easy to see why Khan, essentially Master and Commander in space, is the popular favorite, but the weirdness the other films have makes them more engaging in many respects. The Shatner directed entry is a great hang out film anchored by some great questions the film isn’t bothered to answer.

[therewillbeblus]

I saw Khan very young as my first Star Trek anything (my dad had me skip the first, calling it boring, which no doubt planted the opinion for when I finally did get to it later) and even with a movie like Se7en having no traumatic effect on me in elementary school, I had many a nightmare about those fucking ear critters...

[senseabove]

I would hope that liking a film would be a personal rule for everyone making personalized lists!

Well, I mean independent of how "good" I think a movie is. There's a difference between recognizing that personal preference will always play a role in ranking and recognizing that, however good a movie I think Citizen Kane is, it doesn't "spark joy" for me and so didn't need to go on my 40s list above something like Two-Faced Woman, which I freely admit isn't anywhere near actually being one of the best 50 films of the 40s, but which I, for some reason, thoroughly enjoy.

[therewillbeblus]

Yeah I get it, I just feel like that's what these lists are for and would be surprised if that wasn't a normative rule for most of us, but maybe I'm dead wrong. Either way, agreed.

[therewillbeblus]

Paprika isn't quite as impressive on a revisit, though lesser Satoshi Kon is still good, but it still plays as a creative dissection of dreams and our competing subconscious parts of our psyches. There are fair comparisons thematically with Inception, even when ostensibly this defaults to the mecha anime climax vs the Bond-action setpieces, and it manages to jam a significant amount of cogitable probing in its visually vast mise en scene. Highly recommended even as a gateway to Satoshi Kon's other work (none of which qualify for this list, unless you want to count the entirety of Memories).

I'm neither averse to, nor a passionate acolyte for, anime in general- but I will say that this filmmaker tends to appeal to those who aren't drawn to the movement, in my experience. Unfortunately my favorite sci-fi animes are technically series (Monster, Cowboy Bebop, Evangelion) and something like Akira, which is fine, won’t make the cut. Does anybody have any strong anime recs that do meet criteria for the project?

[Feego]

I'm not particularly well-versed in anime beyond the most well-known mainstream staples. As such, Ghost in the Shell will make my list and gets a hearty rec from me (I've never seen any of the sequels). I might also recommend Rintaro's Metropolis, which I haven't seen in years but remember being fun if not exactly a masterpiece. It's a somewhat loose reimagining of Lang's film, based on a manga by Osamu Tezuka, who admitted he never saw the Lang film himself but based the manga on a single still image.

[knives]

Paranoia Agent counts for the list as well if memory serves on the genre sphere. That said my number anime pick for the list is without question FLCL which I’m tempted to put at number one overall. It plays a bit like Tashlin tasked with making a coming of age story set to the best pop rock Japan can provide. Seriously, the soundtrack alone should earn it a place on everyone’s list.

[therewillbeblus]

I thought of Paranoia Agent, which is one of my favorites of his, but it's a 13-ep series with different directors/writers. If we were bending auteurist qualifiers to Kon as creator, then it'd count but I don't believe it does. FLCL, likewise, seems to be three seasons where only the first is helmed by one single director, so I don't think that would count either? I'll take your hearty rec and watch it either way (my partner is an anime-fanatic and just gave a thumbs up when I gauged her opinion on it), but if these count, surely Evangelion does, and then all the floodgates would open.

[knives]

I’ve voted for FLCL before. The first OVA is a miniseries under the qualifications of the list. Recently Gainax produced a sequel OVA, though I’m not sure how it fits into the rules.

IMDB says Paranoia Agent is a miniseries which would nominally suggest it is eligible, but I’ll leave that decision up to Dom.

I was thinking as well that the original Ghost in the Machine may make my list. It’s the Waschowski’s best film they didn’t make. Though speaking of them Jupiter Ascending will almost certainly make my list and I might throw Cloud Atlas on too. I don’t think that CA is a great movie, but it is the best example I can think of for the purely cinematic possibilities for the genre on the level of theme. All three films from this paragraph form a kind of perfect legitimization of trans experience.

[therewillbeblus]

Well now I'm genuinely confused on the rules, because my understanding was miniseries only count as long films if helmed by a single director. That loophole would change my list quite significantly, as well as prior ones.

I actually think Cloud Atlas is the best Waschowski project, but I agree that it's not great and more of an admirable realisation of ambitions, plus Tom Hanks cycling through a series of characters completely against type is a sight to beyond.

[domino harvey]

That’s swo’s distinction. I seem to recall having to weigh in on animes in the first iteration of the Horror list. Someone find my ruling there so I don’t have to investigate this

[knives]

I can buy that. Certainly it’s the most Waschowski project.

As for rules, perhaps this time is different, but way back in the day before Deadwood ruined the good vibes IMDB was the arbitrator where if it said miniseries that was eligible and if it said television series, no good. Since the rules were changed to be more open I’ve always assumed that anything eligible under the old rules still was. I could be wrong though.

[knives]

Turns out that ruling was in the faith list.

[therewillbeblus]

As for rules, perhaps this time is different, but way back in the day before Deadwood ruined the good vibes IMDB was the arbitrator where if it said miniseries that was eligible and if it said television series, no good. Since the rules were changed to be more open I’ve always assumed that anything eligible under the old rules still was. I could be wrong though.

Yeah but then The Young Pope would be a tv series, and looking over some other examples it just seems like IMDb is a poor predictor based on qualifications on personal examples and others' here.

Turns out that ruling was in the faith list.

So I assume that affirmative ruling includes Cowboy Bebop, Paranoia Agent, etc. as well as Evangelion, considering their pre-planned conceptions were for a single series? This also really opens the floodgates for a majority of anime, based on what I've gathered from my girlfriend's mass viewings at least. I don't know how I feel about this flexibility yet, or if I'll be taking advantage of it, but I'll probably just wait to see how others feel/campaign to gauge the mood of the forum.

[knives]

It really only opens the doors on OAVs with a couple of exceptions. Like, Detective Conan isn’t suddenly eligible.