Awards Season 2020

A subforum to discuss film culture and criticism both old and new, as well as memorializing public figures we've lost.
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therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: Awards Season 2020

#76 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:53 am

I'm not trying to say that this is the first time the academy has done something I disagree with, though I don't define fairness as polar opposite political grand gestures to 'even things out' as if that's a measurable thing

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movielocke
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am

Awards Season 2020

#77 Post by movielocke » Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:40 pm

This strikes me as a first step, and generally these sorts of affirmative directions do result in opportunity and increased participation by marginalized groups, and it is doing something rather than nothing, and it is a broadly systemic first step, which is really good, a Rooney rule for casting directors would do very little, system wide.

Rather than quotas I’d think of these as benchmarks, and they are benchmarks that can be improved upon.

Nasir007
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 11:58 am

Re: Awards Season 2020

#78 Post by Nasir007 » Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:24 pm

So my general assumption is almost every movie will qualify through B, C and D. And you just need 2 of A, B, C, D to qualify. So A wouldn't be as important. But just for curiosity I decided to see explore the past 10 years for eligibility based on A

Wouldn't meet A

Ford v Ferrari (2019)
The Irishman (2019)
1917 (2019)
Once Upon A Time In Hollywood (2019)
Dunkirk (2017)
Manchester by the Sea (2016)
Spotlight (2015)
Bridge of Spies (2015)
The Revenant (2015)
American Sniper (2014)
Boyhood (2014)
American Hustle (2013)
Her (2013)
Nebraska (2013)
The Wolf of Wall Street (2013)
Argo (2013)
Les Misérables (2012)
The Artist (2011)
The Descendants (2011)
Hugo (2011)
Midnight in Paris (2011)
Moneyball (2011)
The Tree of Life (2011)
War Horse (2011)
The King's Speech (2010)
127 Hours (2010)
The Fighter (2010)
The Social Network (2010)
Toy Story 3 (2010)

Arguably meets A on the following grounds

Jojo Rabbit (2019) - main theme centered on Jews
Bohemian Rhapsody (2019) - main narrative centered on LGBTQ+ person
La La Land (2016) - significant supporting actor John Legend
Lincoln - main theme is centered on african-americans

Don't remember or know enough

Vice (2018)
Darkest Hour (2017)
Hacksaw Ridge (2016)
Hell or High Water (2016)
The Big Short (2015)
Birdman (2014)
Whiplash (2014)
127 Hours (2010)
Last edited by Nasir007 on Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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captveg
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:28 pm

Re: Awards Season 2020

#79 Post by captveg » Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:47 pm

Little Women would qualify for A for having "a main storyline or subject that centers on an underrepresented identity group." (Women)

One would likely be able to qualify other films from your "wouldn't meet A" list with the same, such as Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood and Les Misérables, depending on how "main story" one considers the Tate and Fantine storylines, respectively.

Nasir007
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 11:58 am

Re: Awards Season 2020

#80 Post by Nasir007 » Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:17 pm

Ah that's a good point. I think Little Women definitely qualifies. I will remove it.

I don't think with Once or Les Mis you could make a case they are based on the story of those women. Once is clearly a story about middle aged masculine relevance and Les Mis is JVJ's redemption story through and through.

felipe
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 11:06 pm

Re: Awards Season 2020

#81 Post by felipe » Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:39 pm

So... it seems like this changes absolutely nothing to the films that were being nominated already (and I'm not saying it should), just feels like the Academy trying to avoid future criticism.

What? 1917 is not diverse enough? Actually, the makeup and hairstyling departments were both led by women thanks to our new rules.

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Slaphappy
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:08 am

Re: Awards Season 2020

#82 Post by Slaphappy » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:18 am

So there's a three year adjustment period. Let's hope 2023 Oscars will look like
Image

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tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am

Re: Awards Season 2020

#83 Post by tenia » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:02 am


felipe wrote:Actually, the makeup and hairstyling departments were both led by women thanks to our new rules.
I've read stats, I think from the UK, showing that hairstyling, make up and costumes are the 3 movie departments which employs more women than men.
Which feels extremely cliché. I guess kitchen would be the 4th one in terms of women employment.

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Ribs
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:14 pm

Re: Awards Season 2020

#84 Post by Ribs » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:47 am

Nasir007 wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:24 pm
So my general assumption is almost every movie will qualify through B, C and D. And you just need 2 of A, B, C, D to qualify. So A wouldn't be as important. But just for curiosity I decided to see explore the past 10 years for eligibility based on A
The second proviso of category A is way more loose then you're making it seem: any movie, so long as it has a total higher than 30% of POC, female, disabled, or LGBTQ cast combined, will meet the criteria. Which a chunk of those movies would.

Ultimately these rules will probably have the least impact in the first category because hiring six PAs, paying interns, and having a diverse team at the studio is a lot easier. (The fourth category is especially weak in the sense of inspiring any real change, as I cannot imagine that any major studio including the indie ones don't have at least two people who meet their criteria; while truly independent movies do exist and are technically eligible for Best Picture this will probably really lock them out as a matter of principle just because they don't have many executive level staff behind them).

Nasir007
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 11:58 am

Re: Awards Season 2020

#85 Post by Nasir007 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:30 am

Ribs wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:47 am
Nasir007 wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:24 pm
So my general assumption is almost every movie will qualify through B, C and D. And you just need 2 of A, B, C, D to qualify. So A wouldn't be as important. But just for curiosity I decided to see explore the past 10 years for eligibility based on A
The second proviso of category A is way more loose then you're making it seem: any movie, so long as it has a total higher than 30% of POC, female, disabled, or LGBTQ cast combined, will meet the criteria. Which a chunk of those movies would.

Ultimately these rules will probably have the least impact in the first category because hiring six PAs, paying interns, and having a diverse team at the studio is a lot easier. (The fourth category is especially weak in the sense of inspiring any real change, as I cannot imagine that any major studio including the indie ones don't have at least two people who meet their criteria; while truly independent movies do exist and are technically eligible for Best Picture this will probably really lock them out as a matter of principle just because they don't have many executive level staff behind them).
The 2nd provision of A is very confusingly worded so I kinda ignored it. It says - "At least 30% of all actors in secondary and more minor roles are from at least two of the following underrepresented groups: Women. Racial or ethnic group, LGBTQ+, People with cognitive or physical disabilities, or who are deaf or hard of hearing."

Basically say 100 secondary or minor roles in a movie - 30 of them should be either women or race-based or LGBT or physical disabilities. Now say a black woman will not be counted twice. It is still the same 30%.

This rule is hard to adjudicate because what constitutes a minor role? How are they going to define that? Less than 10 words? No words? About 50 words? Do extras count? This rule is moot essentially due to vagueness.

Now take a movie like Irishman. It has an ensemble cast but essentially 3 women right? De Niro's wife and Pesci's wife and Anna Paquin. And between the 3 they might have less than 50 words or so. So it would fail. Dunkirk does not even have women in speaking roles I think. But there are several nurses that appear? Does that count?

Something like Argo - I find it impossible to judge. Several women do appear. But what is the pool we are counting to determine if they make up 30%.

I feel we as layman are definitely not able to determine if a film meets A through the second provision. But the rule itself is overbroad and might be abused, as people will add extras to the credit cast list and meet the number. "Minor role" will have to be defined for this to be a useful criteria.

EDIT: Also the at least 2 is confusing - basically even if you have 30% women, you would fail unless one of them was a POC or lgbt.

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Toland's Mitchell
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:42 pm

Re: Awards Season 2020

#86 Post by Toland's Mitchell » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:29 pm

Encouraging inclusion is a good thing, however I think this is a PR stunt more than anything else, a public reminder the Academy is always trying to be woke as if we didn't already know. Almost every set I work on, the BTL crew is more than 30% women/minority/LGBTQ. I know I'm not the only member here who works in the industry, so hopefully others' experiences have been similar. Anyway, as Nasir007 mentioned yesterday, almost every recent BP nominee likely met the standards anyway, therefore this doesn't change much (anything?). It just seems like a lazy progressive gesture that may not effectively achieve the inclusive goals it strives for, while at the same time fights against future criticism, as felipe mentioned. Furthermore, I can't help but feel the Academy also wanted attention...as our minds are focused on bigger things in 2020 (coronavirus, the election, protests, etc.), the Academy wanted to say 'hey we're still here and we're still woke, and oh by the way don't forget to watch the Oscars next year.'

Zot!
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:09 am

Re: Awards Season 2020

#87 Post by Zot! » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:54 am

Toland's Mitchell wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:29 pm
Encouraging inclusion is a good thing, however I think this is a PR stunt more than anything else, a public reminder the Academy is always trying to be woke as if we didn't already know.
Exactly, If there was a positive outcome from this, I wish it might convince people that we can stop using an Oscar win as a mark of quality, but rather earmarking as populist fodder. But then ordinary people keep quoting box-office gross as a determination of a film's artistic value, so I suppose you can't win.

eerik
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:53 pm
Location: Estonia

Re: Awards Season 2020

#88 Post by eerik » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:40 pm

Student Academy Award winners announced.

Estonia's "My Dear Corpses" won the international narrative category. First such honour for our tiny film school. :)

Nasir007
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 11:58 am

Re: Awards Season 2020

#89 Post by Nasir007 » Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:29 pm

Interesting tidbit in Anne Thompson's and Eric Kohn's indiewire podcast. I had never imagined it but SBC and Borat 2 are gunning for the oscars hard. SBC demoted himself to supporting for Chicago 7 so that he could be lead in Borat and 2 and the are also pushing the actress who played his daughter and other categories too.

Thompson acknowledged that the movie is definitely helped by its more overt political nature in an election year - targeting trump, pence, trump associates and trump voters. I think liberal Hollywood would just eat that up.

So what I thought was the film's weakest element might work in the film's favor and lead it to awards glory.

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